American man aged 90 told to go back to the US to get visa to stay with UK wife - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

Political issues and parties in Europe's nation states, the E.U. & Russia.

Moderator: PoFo Europe Mods

Forum rules: No one line posts please. This is an international political discussion forum, so please post in English only.
#14984402
A 90-year-old man with crippling arthritis, diabetes, and who is frequently confused, could be forced to return to the US to apply for a visa to live with his British wife in the UK.

Image

Albert Dolbec has been married to his wife Dawn, 84, for 25 years, and they divided their time between the US and the UK for many years, but when their health declined three years ago they decided to locate permanently in the UK so Dawn’s family could help look after them.

Albert, however, mistakenly entered the UK on a visitor’s visa, thinking he could convert that to a spousal visa from inside the UK. For the past two and a half years, the family have been trying to persuade the Home Office that he should be allowed to rectify his mistake without returning to the US.

Albert has no home and nowhere to live in the US. His wife is too frail to travel with him and his family are convinced he would not survive the experience. It is, the family’s lawyer said, “a terrible failure of common sense”.

Dawn’s daughter, Marina Breeze, said the couple are in an “intolerable position” and their health has severely deteriorated due to the stress.


“My mother is Albert’s official carer,” she said. “Albert requires constant support from her with his personal care and medical condition. His short-term memory is diminishing and his judgment of what he is capable of is poor.”

But, Breeze added, her mother’s health is also failing. “My mother’s family – including children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren – and all her possessions are in the UK,” she said. “It is only possible for my mother to care for Albert with the considerable support of us, her family, who live nearby.”

Dawn said: “If Albert is forced to leave the UK he will have to travel alone. He finds it difficult to walk: he can’t feel his feet. He is hard of hearing and uses hearing aids. On arrival in the USA he would be homeless with nothing but a bag of clothes and a walking stick. If he returns to the US, I am extremely concerned that we would lose track of his whereabouts and not know if he was safe.

“The money Albert and I have, and which is quickly diminishing thanks to this legal battle, will not go far as we would need to run two homes instead of sharing one,” she added. “Whereas now, we are able to pay our own way in the UK, if we are separated, I would probably need to resort to applying for state benefits.”

Dawn has been married to Albert for 25 years and is now his official carer.

After two applications costing more than £6,000 in fees and solicitors’ costs, the Home Office has told Albert there are insufficient grounds for it to exercise compassion. They have put the 90-year-old on immigration bail and given him no right of appeal from inside the UK.

The Dolbecs’ lawyer, Julian Norman from Drystone Chambers, said: “Because he entered as a visitor, Mr Dolbec has to show ‘insurmountable obstacles’ to returning to the US to re-enter with proper entry clearance. This is a human rights assessment.

“There is a legitimate aim – immigration control – but is this a proportionate means of achieving it?” she asked. “In my view, on any compassionate consideration, the extreme stress caused to a 90-year-old man from leaving the country to re-apply, not knowing if he would see his wife again, is a disproportionate means of achieving the legitimate aim of immigration control.

“It seems like ‘painting by numbers’ decision-making, which has led to a terrible failure of common sense,” she added.

The family’s MP, Oliver Dowden, has been trying to work with both UK Visas and Immigration (UKVI) and the Home Office since March on the family’s behalf. In an email to Breeze, he said that he “appreciates how entirely distressing and frustrating this situation must be for yourself, and your parents”.

“We have repeatedly made Albert’s case to UKVI,” Dowden told the Guardian. “I continue to personally engage with the Home Office and am hopeful that it can be resolved so that he can stay in the UK.”

A Home Office spokesperson said: “All UK visa applications are considered on their individual merits, on the basis of the evidence available and in line with UK immigration rules.”
#14984451
It really is amazing how the Home Office repeatedly manages to identify the common sense approach to a situation like this and then stubbornly insist on doing the exact opposite. I expect they'll eventually be shamed into backing down, but not before wasting a hell of a lot of time and money and making this guy's life miserable for as long as possible. :knife:
#14984499
The Home Office is actually going after Asian migrants. May particularly wants to deport Asian men who are married to British women, if they cannot support their families with sufficient incomes, and they cannot bring in picture brides from Pakistan, either. It's racist if the same rule is not applied to white Americans or Aussies, who are also non-EU citizens. Britain's immigration crackdown under May is getting out of control.
Last edited by ThirdTerm on 30 Jan 2019 18:44, edited 3 times in total.
#14984500
I hope he flies to the US. Someone would have to give him a boost over the wall.

Nothing makes fools out of a nation more frequently than immigration dust ups.

Just curious. HM the Queen has the power to issue passports. Maybe someone could ask the kind lady to give a hand. It would be a public relations coup and completely in keeping with her good nature.
#14984510
Can’t these people in these organisations just stop acting like nosey, annoying freaks, let this poor family get on with their lives and stop causing nuisance, inconvenience and drama for them? I think they already have enough on their plate, so if these people in these organisations had any respect for anyone else, they’d leave these people alone.
#14984512
If you make exceptions, you set a precedent for more exceptions. Demanding laws are never unfair to anyone is an unrealistic expectation. I hope they find away to resolve this, but it is not always wise to do so. Sometimes it is better for a few innocents to suffer.
I find most of their excuses a little hard to accept. His age and health were the only convincing arguments. If they had money for a lawyer, they had money for someone to go to the US with him.
It is an unfortunate situation, but he did bring it on himself. Ignorance of the law is not a defense.
#14984520
Edwardo wrote:Can’t these people in these organisations just stop acting like nosey, annoying freaks, let this poor family get on with their lives and stop causing nuisance, inconvenience and drama for them? I think they already have enough on their plate, so if these people in these organisations had any respect for anyone else, they’d leave these people alone.


By this token, one could easily say, "don't the British voters have any self-respect when voting for racist thugs who have pledged to do exactly this sort of thing while falling for fake racist placards on buses time and again?"

The policy of a hostile environment is Theresa May's policy, she was elected on this policy.

It sure feels nice blaming some bureaucrat in an office, or the general EU, instead of Theresa May or Madame Merkel for the mess they have created, that way the British and German publics get to wash their hands like Pontius Pilate.

One Degree wrote: If they had money for a lawyer, they had money for someone to go to the US with him.
It is an unfortunate situation, but he did bring it on himself. Ignorance of the law is not a defense.


You are wrong on both cases.

First of all, the money they spend are cumulative, they spend them little by little in the hope of getting out of this mess. When they pay 200, 300 or whatever as an initial fee, noone is telling them that this will eventually cost several thousand. Second, the man is clearly in no position to undertake trans-atlantic travel with or without an escort. Third, this man has not broken the law at all, switching your visa from visitor to spousal inside the country is not a legal nuisance to anyone, especially under these circumstances. Third, this man has been in this country for 25 years and noone has bothered him, applying "the law" whenever you feel like delegitimises the whole thing just because some idiot put a fake poster on a bus, then people got worked up and elected a racist PM who decided to chase people like him to make a point. That's not the law but a ridiculous whim based on fake news.

I was wondering whether you would come here to post this stuff, I was almost certain that you would but I thought because the guy is American and old like you, you maybe not, alas I was mistaken.
#14984525
snapdragon wrote:Oh, come on. Huge swathes of the British public want health tourism clamped down on, so you can't blame the government for doing it.


That is exactly what I'm saying.

noemon wrote:"don't the British voters have any self-respect when voting for racist thugs who have pledged to do exactly this sort of thing while falling for fake racist placards on buses time and again?"


This is on the British nation.
#14984527
noemon wrote:By this token, one could easily say, "don't the British voters have any self-respect when voting for racist thugs who have pledged to do exactly this sort of thing while falling for fake racist placards on buses time and again?"

The policy of a hostile environment is Theresa May's policy, she was elected on this policy.

It sure feels nice blaming some bureaucrat in an office, or the general EU, instead of Theresa May or Madame Merkel for the mess they have created, that way the British and German publics get to wash their hands like Pontius Pilate.



You are wrong on both cases.

First of all, the money they spend are cumulative, they spend them little by little in the hope of getting out of this mess. When they pay 200, 300 or whatever as an initial fee, noone is telling them that this will eventually cost several thousand. Second, the man is clearly in no position to undertake tran-atlantic travel with or without an escort. Third, this man has not broken the law at all, switching your visa from visitor to spousal inside the country is not a legal nuisance to anyone, especially under these circumstances. Third, this man has been in this country for 25 years and noone has bothered him, applying "the law" whenever you feel like delegitimises the whole thing just because some idiot put a fake poster in a bus, then people got worked up and elected a racist PM who decided to chase people like him to make a point. That's not the law but a ridiculous whim.

I was wondering whether you would come here to post this stuff, I was almost certain that you would but I thought because the guy is old like you, you maybe not, alas I was mistaken.


I think you need to reread your article. He has only been in the country 3 years. Obviously, he has broken the law or he would not be facing deportation. He was well enough and had money enough to travel to the UK 3 years ago. You then throw in racism as the universal reason for switching blame from him to the government. He didn’t follow the procedures. Why should he be exempted?
#14984529
One Degree wrote:I think you need to reread your article. He has only been in the country 3 years.


No dear, he has been in this country for 25 years, it's been 3 years since he has not returned to the US at all.

Obviously, he has broken the law or he would not be facing deportation.


Choosing the wrong form is not breaking the law. Nor is anyone going to break the law for changing his visa inside this country instead of the British embassy in the US.

You then throw in racism as the universal reason for switching blame from him to the government. He didn’t follow the procedures. Why should he be exempted?


Of course racist propagandists are directly to blame for this. 3 years ago racist thugs put up a fake racist placard on a bus and since then, the government has created a policy called hostile environment. A policy that has seen British war veterans facing deportation. It is precisely because of this policy that these men are suffering.
#14984532
May's policy of a 'hostile environment' is coming after many. The Universities of Birmingham and Suffolk are about to implement a policy whereby all non-EU migrants (including senior academics) have to fill in time sheets stating where exactly they have spent their time each week - this has to be signed by a line manager and then submitted to the Home Office. Quite what detrimental activities professors of Persian literature have spent their time on has yet to be determined- perhaps picking fruit, thereby taking work away from all those Britons desperate to spend their time plucking apples for minimum wage.
#14984533
snapdragon wrote:Oh, come on. Huge swathes of the British public want health tourism clamped down on, so you can't blame the government for doing it.

Right. What they should do is send those cases to the United States, where we have free health care in our county system. Illegal aliens aren't refused care and aren't required to pay.
#14984534
No dear, he has been in this country for 25 years, it's been 3 years since he has not returned to the US at all.


No, it doesn’t say that. It says they traveled back and forth. We only know for the last 3 years he has been in the UK.

Choosing the wrong form is not breaking the law. Nor is anyone going to break the law for changing his visa inside this country instead of the British embassy in the US.

Then you need to explain why the thread even exists. If he has broken no law, then he can’t be facing any punishment.


Of course racist propagandists are directly to blame for this. 3 years ago racist thugs put up a fake racist placard on a bus and since then, the government has created a policy called hostile environment. It is precisely because of this policy that this man is suffering.

How is the policy racist if it applies to everyone? As someone pointed out earlier, they would be accused of racism if they did make an exception for him. Very convenient you can accuse them of racism no matter what they do.
#14984538
One Degree wrote:No, it doesn’t say that. It says they traveled back and forth. We only know for the last 3 years he has been in the UK.


We only know that it has been 3 years that he has not returned back to the US, we also know that it's been 25 years since he married a British lady and established himself in Britain spending their time between the US and the UK as most retirees with foreign spouses do.

How is the policy racist if it applies to everyone? As someone pointed out earlier, they would be accused of racism if they did make an exception for him. Very convenient you can accuse them of racism no matter what they do.


The policy is:
a) racist because it scours the files of foreign people in order to find bureaucratic errors or make impossible demands of them in order to deport them, resulting in threatening British war veterans with deportation.
b) it is the direct result of racist propaganda, such as Vote Leave's and Farage's racist placards animating the British public to vote for politicians that make racist pledges.

If he has broken no law, then he can’t be facing any punishment.


Sure he can as he quite evidently is. Making foreign innocent people suffer has always been a thing for sadistic racists.
#14984542
noemon wrote:We only know that it has been 3 years that he has not returned back to the US, we also know that it's been 25 years since he married a British lady and established himself in Britain spending their time between the US and the US as most retirees with foreign spouses do.



The policy is:
a) racist because it scours the files of foreign people in order to find bureaucratic errors or make impossible demands of them in order to deport them, resulting in threatening British war veterans with deportation.
b) it is the direct result of racist propaganda, such as Vote Leave's and Farage's racist placards animating the British public to vote for politicians that make racist pledges.


Nationalism is not racism. You state they scour the files of “foreign peoples”. That is not racism. What some people may have said has nothing to do with what the law actually says.
There was a hearing and they had a lawyer. It was found they didn’t meet hardship requirements, so I would like to hear the government’s side too, instead of just their side.
#14984544
One Degree wrote:Nationalism is not racism. You state they scour the files of “foreign peoples”. That is not racism. What some people may have said has nothing to do with what the law actually says.
There was a hearing and they had a lawyer. It was found they didn’t meet hardship requirements, so I would like to hear the government’s side too, instead of just their side.


Being hostile to foreign people is the very definition of racism, especially when it takes place institutionally according to government policy, in this case aptly termed Hostile Environment.

Also there has been no hearing before a judge, nor have they had a lawyer in a court of law. The only people they have been in contact with is the Home Office, not the courts, and they simply had a solicitor(possibly a free one) to help them out fill their forms so that they do not make typographic errors and have their application thrown out on the slightest error. You are misunderstanding the process, which I do not think is your fault. It is your fault however trying to call these people criminals who have broken the law and who have allegedly been found guilty.
#14984545
Right. What they should do is send those cases to the United States, where we have free health care in our county system. Illegal aliens aren't refused care and aren't required to pay.


Nice try to hijack this thread blackjack. It is not true but you will get plenty of play on it.

Rick
Hello good folks of PoFo

Welcome back!

Trump and Russiagate

Einstein is famous for believing in the "Spi[…]

Pro and Anti EU - The Arguments

I think Steve_American point is about like the EU[…]

Why I am a Materialist Christian

@Victoribus Spolia , Just wanted to note, make[…]