Austrian vice-chancellor resigns over secret video footage - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15006309
Kaiserschmarrn wrote:Why would an intelligence agency make it public? Political opposition seems much more likely to me, although I agree it's not necessarily domestic.

You mean why would the German government make it public right before the EP-election? Strache said himself they were after him/them, I wonder who he meant but Rugoz may be right. Also, does Kurz seem surprised or confused to you or does he rather appear to be self-confident and pre-prepared, and someone that knows exactly what he's doing?
#15006310
Beren wrote:You mean why would the German government make it public right before the EP-election?

A political party in Germany might well be behind this, but I don't buy that the German government would use the BND simply for a political hit job. And if this was part of an operation related to national security concerns, the video would not be made public.

Beren wrote:Strache said himself they were after him/them, I wonder who he meant but Rugoz may be right.

I suspect he means anybody opposing right-wing populists. Could be other political parties, could be the media, could even be some rich person.

Beren wrote:Also, does Kurz seem surprised or confused to you or does he rather appear to be self-confident and pre-prepared, and someone that knows exactly what he's doing?

I haven't watched or read much about Kurz's reaction, but he generally has a very controlled and collected personality.
#15006311
Kaiserschmarrn wrote:A political party in Germany might well be behind this, but I don't buy that the German government would use the BND simply for a political hit job.

Which party do you mean? The CDU which is government in Germany? And the BND works for the German government, so this is just more than possible.
#15006312
Beren wrote:Which party do you mean? The CDU which is government in Germany? And the BND works for the German government, so this is just more than possible.

The CDU could be behind this as could many others. They don't need the intelligence services to set something like this up.
#15006313
Kaiserschmarrn wrote:The CDU could be behind this as could many others. They don't need the intelligence services to set something like this up.

I just wonder what else than their own intelligence services would they prefer using and why.
#15006320
Beren wrote:I just wonder what else than their own intelligence services would they prefer using and why.

Kurz has pointed at the SPOE's former advisor Silberstein as a possibility and somebody like him would certainly be able to organise it. Journalists also do something like this regularly.

As I said above, unless there are national security implications I don't think intelligence services would be involved, but in that case I doubt we would get to see the video.

My money is on this being set up by somebody in Austria followed by somebody from a neighbouring country. Intelligence involvement is way down the list.

Not that I think it's likely but it would be quite funny if Haselsteiner is the culprit.
#15006323
Kaiserschmarrn wrote:Kurz has pointed at the SPOE

Of course he has, is it really supposed to mean something?

So you don't see any connection between the events and this Merkel interview published on Wednesday:

Merkel: Europe must unite to stand up to China, Russia and US
#15006326
Beren wrote:Of course he has, is it really supposed to mean something?

It's supposed to show that an advisor to a political party could set up a trap like this.

Beren wrote:So you don't see any connection between the events and this Merkel interview published on Wednesday:

Merkel: Europe must unite to stand up to China, Russia and US

What did she say in your opinion that she wouldn't have said in case it wasn't the BND?
#15006332
Kaiserschmarrn wrote:It's supposed to show that an advisor to a political party could set up a trap like this.

He must be a really powerful political adviser then, I wonder if Strache was afraid of him the most. :lol:


Kaiserschmarrn wrote:What did she say in your opinion that she wouldn't have said in case it wasn't the BND?

Nothing, but it would fit in a political hit job operation orchestrated by the German government perfectly.
#15006335
Beren wrote:He must be a really powerful political adviser then, I wonder if Strache was afraid of him the most. :lol:

Not at all.

Beren wrote:Nothing, but it would fit in a political hit job operation orchestrated by the German government perfectly.

But again, it doesn't require BND involvement to fit. I think it's more likely to be a left-wing party or organisation anyway.

It might be nothing, but I'm also still somewhat curious how Boehmermann fits into this.
#15006338
Kaiserschmarrn wrote:But again, it doesn't require BND involvement to fit.

How is it so unimaginable to you that the BND could do political hit jobs like any major intelligence service regularly does? Who else would do that on the behalf of the German government anyway? Silberstein and others may have been involved, but would the Austrian government fall so smoothly right before the EP-election if it had been only them?
#15006576
Beren wrote:How is it so unimaginable to you that the BND could do political hit jobs like any major intelligence service regularly does?

Which intelligence services do mere political hit jobs in countries that are close allies regularly?

Beren wrote:Who else would do that on the behalf of the German government anyway? Silberstein and others may have been involved, but would the Austrian government fall so smoothly right before the EP-election if it had been only them?

Just to be clear, I also think it unlikely that the German government has authorised this.

If the CDU or any other political party wanted to lay a trap for Strache they would have no problem doing it. Most people/organisations with enough money would be able to do it.

I don't think that Kurz's decision was particularly surprising. Not all of the tape has been made public, so it's possible that there's more material to come. From the OEVP's perspective it's also not clear whether Hofer can control the party as well as Strache has. I think it's a valid position for Kurz to say he's cutting his losses. After all, this is not a minor scandal.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Edit:

From Die Presse (google translate):


Viennese lawyer is said to have interpreted Ibiza trap

Who is behind the Ibiza video? The first traces lead to a Munich detective agency and a Viennese lawyer, who is said to have already offered in 2015 scarce material about the FPÖ.

Who commissioned the Ibiza video? Who made it and distributed it? A first track led on Tuesday to the Vienna city attorney M. He has made the initial contact with those persons who have ex-FPÖ parliament club chairman Johann Gudenus and ex-Vice Chancellor Heinz-Christian Strache in Ibiza in the trap - and produces the catchy video to have.

But from the beginning, as Gudenus confirms the story to the "press": John Gudenus, the father of the FPÖ club chairman died in September 2016. After that, the family wanted to sell some of their land and forests in the Waldviertel who, in turn, claimed to know a Latvian who was looking for such a property and who also planned to move to Austria with their children.

According to Gudenus, near the Stephansplatz there was a first meeting in the law office of the lawyer, who also presented a passport to the Latvian. Her alleged name: Aljona Makarova. The attorney presented proof that the Latvian had already deposited a sum of money into a lawyer's trust account as proof that the alleged niece of a Russian oligarch had paid.

At the meeting, a man is said to have been present, who introduced himself under the cover name Julian Thaler as the owner of a detective agency in Munich. The real name is as well known to the "press" as the security company that actually exists, and the company offers the use of covert investigation teams to investigate crimes, and the Detective Agency's home page has been offline since the end of 2018.

Further meetings in Vienna

Gudenus met the supposed Lettin several times in Vienna - and more often said Thaler. The FPÖ politician said that he and Strache would like to spend their summer holidays in Ibiza. The two decoys claimed to be coincidentally on the Balearic Island at the same time. They met each other in a villa near the capital of the island, drank and talked for nearly seven hours. Several cameras filmed, the rest is already Austrian domestic politics. At the revelry, illegal substances were also at stake, as Gudenus admitted in a "press" interview .

The tangible material on the FPÖ-Mandatare was offered according to information of the "press" several people and finally landed with one and a half years delay now at the "Süddeutsche Zeitung" and the "mirror" .This could also have involved the Viennese lawyer.

The Vienna municipal council election

Incidentally, it would not be the first time that the legal representative has tried to circulate incriminating pictures and videos about leading FPÖ politicians. According to information of the "press" happened similar before the Vienna city council election 2015. Accordingly, lawyer M. offered to middlemen of several parties for a six-figure amount of photos to show Strache in a garage in the transfer of cash and he should also prove the alleged drug use of the former FP chief in prospect.

As a source, the lawyer at that time called a frustrated former parliamentary club employee of the FPÖ, who had felt marginalized by Strache. According to M., the money was destined to financially "catch" this party official, and the action silted in. No one agreed - the material was too ambiguous and the asking price too high.

Who paid?

It is unclear who gave the order for the Ibiza video. It seems that it was designed for the 2017 election campaign, but then things went wrong. The producers could have stayed at the expense and looked for a financier. At least from this point on, the events shifted to Germany. The Süddeutsche Zeitung and the Spiegel deny having paid for the video. However, there may have been investors in the background.

The "Presse" asked the lawyer why he had filed a fake passport and tried a second time to spread such material, and his curt reply: "I have a duty of secrecy."

Meanwhile, the lawyer himself has a lawyer: Richard Soyer. He also later contacted the "press": "On behalf of my client, I ask for your understanding that he can not be available for discussion or comment because of confidentiality obligations." Please note that my client does not agree to identifying reporting granted. "

#15006681
Kaiserschmarrn wrote:Which intelligence services do mere political hit jobs in countries that are close allies regularly?

All of them I guess?

Kaiserschmarrn wrote:Just to be clear, I also think it unlikely that the German government has authorised this.

In my opinion both the German and the Austrian governments, I mean Merkel and Kurz, have authorised this, but I'm sure no traces will ever lead to them. They will rather lead to journalists, lawyers, political advisers, private detective agencies, etc.
#15006803
Kaiserschmarrn wrote:Could you give a few examples where this has happened in your opinion?

No, I couldn't, although I don't think it's always so dramatic that we even notice. I also couldn't prove it happened in this case, but why would this be so exceptional?
#15006804
Beren wrote:No, I couldn't, although I don't think it's always so dramatic that we even notice. I also couldn't prove it happened in this case.

Why are you so convinced that it happens regularly then? I mean it's possible, but, as you say, it can't be proven.

The fact that we usually don't even notice would also speak against your theory in this case.

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