Greek Elections - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

Political issues and parties in Europe's nation states, the E.U. & Russia.

Moderator: PoFo Europe Mods

Forum rules: No one line posts please. This is an international political discussion forum, so please post in English only.
User avatar
By noemon
#15016922
New Democracy has won the Greek elections by promising not to make any promises. For the first time in the past 20 years that I recall has a party won an election with such a clear mandate by telling the truth that the road is hard and that many sacrifices will still have to be made.

While an argument can easily be made that the Conservative government of New Democracy between 2004-2009 bankrupted the country by tripling the debt and doubling both deficits and that New Democracy has always counted among its ranks nationalists, religious bigots, racists and reactionaries under Mitsotakis' leadership it has made a very obvious shift to the liberal centre and has replaced a lot of its old guard with fresh young libertarian faces.

The far-right Golden dawn has failed to enter parliament and while some may argue that it might be because it has faced issues with the law, those same issues were still present in 2015 and did not prevent the party from gaining 7%.

This time they seem to have lost lots of their supporters to new milder far-right party that goes by the name Greek Solution.

Yanis Varoufakis' party has managed to enter parliament in its first electoral presence which I am certain has brought a lot of happy smiles for Yanis.

And Syriza is also very happy with the result because it managed to get a much higher percentage than what the polls were presenting and establishing the party as the country's opposition.

Syriza was understood to be a parenthesis that was merely a by-product of the crisis and that the party would vanish but Tsipras's turn to the centre-ground through the success of the Macedonia deal, his toned down rhetoric and surprisingly good relationship with the US and the EU have managed to establish him as a force to be reckoned with. His party have committed to him and there is a chance we might see him as PM once again.

All in all, populism has been defeated both in its left version and in its right version and a return to normality can be seen in the horizon. People have tired listening to false promises and have learned that trusting big words is no longer sustainable. Politicians as well have figured this out and no longer make such appeals either, which is a wonderful development.

I am happy with the results and everyone in Greece seems to be happy with the results as well. Tsipras has taken the election results very well. And since 2012 when the 2 party-system broke down and several minor parties found their way into parliament we have witnessed a very evolving political landscape.
User avatar
By fokker
#15017523
Great result - to elect those back into power who bankrupted Greece and caused its economic lagging in the next 50 years. Greece cannot be saved. The best option is to emigrate until those responsible repay all the debt. Greece serves as an example to all those who don't take debt seriously.

In contrast to V4 countries, political parties that were in power during economic transformation after 1989 - responsible for immense economic damage done in the first 8 years are history, those few that survived have reputation damaged beyond repair, with little chance to influence politics like they once did.
User avatar
By JohnRawls
#15017526
noemon wrote:New Democracy has won the Greek elections by promising not to make any promises. For the first time in the past 20 years that I recall has a party won an election with such a clear mandate by telling the truth that the road is hard and that many sacrifices will still have to be made.

While an argument can easily be made that the Conservative government of New Democracy between 2004-2009 bankrupted the country by tripling the debt and doubling both deficits and that New Democracy has always counted among its ranks nationalists, religious bigots, racists and reactionaries under Mitsotakis' leadership it has made a very obvious shift to the liberal centre and has replaced a lot of its old guard with fresh young libertarian faces.

The far-right Golden dawn has failed to enter parliament and while some may argue that it might be because it has faced issues with the law, those same issues were still present in 2015 and did not prevent the party from gaining 7%.

This time they seem to have lost lots of their supporters to new milder far-right party that goes by the name Greek Solution.

Yanis Varoufakis' party has managed to enter parliament in its first electoral presence which I am certain has brought a lot of happy smiles for Yanis.

And Syriza is also very happy with the result because it managed to get a much higher percentage than what the polls were presenting and establishing the party as the country's opposition.

Syriza was understood to be a parenthesis that was merely a by-product of the crisis and that the party would vanish but Tsipras's turn to the centre-ground through the success of the Macedonia deal, his toned down rhetoric and surprisingly good relationship with the US and the EU have managed to establish him as a force to be reckoned with. His party have committed to him and there is a chance we might see him as PM once again.

All in all, populism has been defeated both in its left version and in its right version and a return to normality can be seen in the horizon. People have tired listening to false promises and have learned that trusting big words is no longer sustainable. Politicians as well have figured this out and no longer make such appeals either, which is a wonderful development.

I am happy with the results and everyone in Greece seems to be happy with the results as well. Tsipras has taken the election results very well. And since 2012 when the 2 party-system broke down and several minor parties found their way into parliament we have witnessed a very evolving political landscape.


I wanted to start a topic about this. In general, another situation where a centre-right party has undermined the far-right and well, won. Would you call this party centre-right or far-right-light ? Where do they swing? I mean from your text it seems they are more of a get down to business but won't really promise salvation because all understand it is not realistic right now and needs to be a long process.
User avatar
By noemon
#15017537
This party now is dead-centre. It has put former Labour MP's into Ministries and has run on a campaign that the debt must be reduced and further sacrifices made. It has sacked its right-wing dinosaurs and is appealing to everyone.
User avatar
By Drlee
#15017545
Are further sacrifices really necessary? I think you wrote once about the draconian economic constraints placed on Greece by the EU. Or am I mistaken? Is Greece being treated fairly?
User avatar
By noemon
#15017548
Further sacrifices are always necessary, it is mostly about not giving people false hope and false promises that they will recover by magic, rather than letting them know that more austerity is required. The austerity years are finished indeed and Greece is no longer under the supervision of the EU/troica but there is a long way ahead. Greece has a surplus for roughly the past 7 years and she is legally required to maintain that surplus at 3.5% for the next X(not sure how many but have heard claims ranging from 20-100) amount of years.
User avatar
By noemon
#15017577
I think the trolling is poor and laughable. Very explicitly hateful. Sad.
User avatar
By Kaiserschmarrn
#15017740
Drlee wrote:Are further sacrifices really necessary? I think you wrote once about the draconian economic constraints placed on Greece by the EU. Or am I mistaken? Is Greece being treated fairly?

They are treated according to the constraints the currency union places on all members. As always, if the political will was there they could be treated more leniently, but that would almost certainly lead to difficulties domestically for whoever is in government in the north, so it's unlikely.

-----------------------------------------

One thing I've learned from this, having closely followed the situation for some time back then and looking back now, is that you can't trust the forecasts very much, e.g. the IMF forecasts at the time were too optimistic and predicted that Greece would be in a much better situation than it actually is today.
By Rugoz
#15019128
fokker wrote:Do you seriously believe Greece has a chance to repay that debt? I think higher budget surplus is needed, at least 5%.


I don't think it can realistically pay back the debt. But ~30 years from now, when ESM/EFSF loans reach maturity, it can hope that yields on the bond market are low enough such that rolling over the debt is affordable.
Election 2020

Thus far in office, Mr. Trump has acted against t[…]

Ukrainegate

@Hindsite , @blackjack21 , Just curious. How i[…]

Does make sense actually. Sexual attraction is,[…]

Undocumented Aliens and Crime

Lungs have no volition of their own, not being s[…]