Greece offers tax incentive to digital migrants - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

Political issues and parties in Europe's nation states, the E.U. & Russia.

Moderator: PoFo Europe Mods

Forum rules: No one line posts please. This is an international political discussion forum, so please post in English only.
#15137299
ekathimerini wrote:Greece to offer tax breaks to woo 'digital migrants'

It has been more than four years since Nikos Dimitriou, a video game designer employed by a UK-based company, moved to Greece while continuing to work from Athens for his employer some 2,400 kilometers away. He has not repented it.

"Moving to Greece with distance working thanks to the internet made sense then, and still does," he told Xinhua late last week.

He is one of the thousands of young Greeks who chose to leave their country when the financial crisis erupted in the early 2010s to find a job abroad. He is now a digital migrant, as he has moved back to Greece, while still working for his British employer.

"Digital migrant" is the term Greek government officials use to describe a person - foreigner or Greek based abroad - who decides to move to Greece and work remotely for a company or clients based in other countries, thanks to the expansion of teleworking.

Athens wants to see many more professionals like Dimitriou, Greek or non-Greek, relocate to Greece and is offering a major tax incentive to them.


"The pandemic has shown it is possible in many cases for one to choose where to live and work thanks to technology. We can have digital migrants," Alex Patelis, Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis' chief economic advisor stated on Wednesday. He said the government intends to grant a 50% income tax cut for the first seven years to those "digital migrants" who move to Greece next year.

Alternate Finance Minister Theodoros Skylakakis was more elaborate recently, stating that "people could come from abroad and work from Greece even if the company that employs them is based in another country. Greece's favorable climate and low property prices in comparison with other European countries, as well as the relatively successful management of the coronavirus pandemic have laid the groundwork for this."

Anastasia Georgopoulou is a Greek professional who returned to Athens five years ago after living in the UK for half a decade. She works remotely as a product curator for a British e-commerce company. "It's the best of both worlds, really. It proved to be a great decision," she told Xinhua.

"There is definitely no going back," said Georgopoulou, adding that "we may make less money from here, but it is definitely worth living in Greece, the quality of life is unparalleled and the expenses are far lower than living abroad."


My family originates from a little island in Greece that has about 2000 registered citizens(including myself and all those living abroad) and about 400 permanent residents. This year due to Covid-19, the permanent residents have doubled nearly to 800 with several younger people from the US & Europe opting to lockdown in the island and work digitally. I thought about it as well and one of my best friends from Brussels who keeps a summer house there tried to convince me to follow him there. He is there as we speak.

I cannot imagine any better place in the world to spend once's life inside, Greek scenery is like living inside a fairytale, when combined with the extreme liberalism of Greek social culture that is totally unhinged, open, overtly sexual and the food it just becomes bliss. I moved to the UK as a university student because I did not want to be constrained by Greece's provincialism back then, now in my mid-thirties with 3 children my wife has been begging me to move back. If more people move back and there is the ability to maintain an enhanced social circle in remote islands like my own then I will seriously consider that option. I am a very sociable person, have always been and need peers around me. After 17 years in Cambridge my social circle is very important to me.
#15137413
noemon wrote:My family originates from a little island in Greece that has about 2000 registered citizens(including myself and all those living abroad) and about 400 permanent residents. This year due to Covid-19, the permanent residents have doubled nearly to 800 with several younger people from the US & Europe opting to lockdown in the island and work digitally. I thought about it as well and one of my best friends from Brussels who keeps a summer house there tried to convince me to follow him there. He is there as we speak.

I cannot imagine any better place in the world to spend once's life inside, Greek scenery is like living inside a fairytale, when combined with the extreme liberalism of Greek social culture that is totally unhinged, open, overtly sexual and the food it just becomes bliss. I moved to the UK as a university student because I did not want to be constrained by Greece's provincialism back then, now in my mid-thirties with 3 children my wife has been begging me to move back. If more people move back and there is the ability to maintain an enhanced social circle in remote islands like my own then I will seriously consider that option. I am a very sociable person, have always been and need peers around me. After 17 years in Cambridge my social circle is very important to me.


You're probably the kind of person they want to attract, as going to Greece for tax breaks is like going to hell to get out of the heat. It's pretty recent history to remember them as the poster child of how NOT to run a country where everyone is a public servant. Trying to attract someone searching for tax breaks is comical at best. They have a better chance of just trying to appeal to local scenery and emphasize that "quality of life" thing - aspects not related to money.

Advertise your strengths, and not highlight your weaknesses.
#15137427
Goranhammer wrote:You're probably the kind of person they want to attract, as going to Greece for tax breaks is like going to hell to get out of the heat. It's pretty recent history to remember them as the poster child of how NOT to run a country where everyone is a public servant. Trying to attract someone searching for tax breaks is comical at best. They have a better chance of just trying to appeal to local scenery and emphasize that "quality of life" thing - aspects not related to money.

Advertise your strengths, and not highlight your weaknesses.


I think that's a very nonsensical and narrow view. Greece historically has an extremely high and convoluted taxation system that forces tax evasion. In Greece exist taxes that do not exist anywhere else. "Tekmirion" is what is called and it translates to "provable". Every item has a provable value that places you in an arbitrary tax bracket unrelated to your actual tax bracket. That is a VW polo car has a provable X value that places someone in the income tax bracket of say 12k per year while a Porsche 911 turbo has a provable value that places someone on income tax bracket of 120k per year, further items(boat, second home, second car, etcetera) and stock in your portfolio add additional value to your tekmirion and you pay tax based on the items in your possession. Greeks have learned to avoid this nonsense that should not exist anyway. Greeks still pay and have been paying more tax per capita than Americans for example even during the time that the media sensationalism was popular.

Greece needs to do away with all this crap and this is a step towards the right direction.
#15137558
noemon wrote:I think that's a very nonsensical and narrow view. Greece historically has an extremely high and convoluted taxation system that forces tax evasion. In Greece exist taxes that do not exist anywhere else. "Tekmirion" is what is called and it translates to "provable". Every item has a provable value that places you in an arbitrary tax bracket unrelated to your actual tax bracket. That is a VW polo car has a provable X value that places someone in the income tax bracket of say 12k per year while a Porsche 911 turbo has a provable value that places someone on income tax bracket of 120k per year, further items(boat, second home, second car, etcetera) and stock in your portfolio add additional value to your tekmirion and you pay tax based on the items in your possession. Greeks have learned to avoid this nonsense that should not exist anyway. Greeks still pay and have been paying more tax per capita than Americans for example even during the time that the media sensationalism was popular.

Greece needs to do away with all this crap and this is a step towards the right direction.


Yeah, but what do you thing the effective tax rate in Greece is anyway? I'm guessing it's still demonstrably higher than Canada, Australia and a good portion of Western Europe (including Scandanavia). Is this kind of tax cut going to bring it in line with other left-mixed (or semi-command) economies?
#15137566
Goranhammer wrote:Not sure how to edit posts on this format, but I mean to say "do you think", not "do you thing".


In the right hand corner of your post, you should see a little gear wheel beside an arrow pointing down. Tap on that, and you should get a drop down menu with an option to edit the post.
#15137643
Goranhammer wrote:Yeah, but what do you thing the effective tax rate in Greece is anyway? I'm guessing it's still demonstrably higher than Canada, Australia and a good portion of Western Europe (including Scandanavia). Is this kind of tax cut going to bring it in line with other left-mixed (or semi-command) economies?


The income tax rate is 22-45%, corporate tax is 29%, vat/sales tax is 24%. They're on the high side.

But still all these are a bit besides the point I'm trying to make. The point was that if your real income is say 50k per year but you own a Porsche and a swimming pool you will be taxed for 150k per year regardless if your income is truly 50k and regardless if the tax bill is higher than you gross income.
This creates very obvious problems to people who will then rightfully do anything to hide their possessions by writing these possessions to their children, ghost companies and so on and forth. These ridiculous laws have given rise to entire ecosystems as to how to work around them, which in turn was then weaponised by certain media and countries that were bashing on Greece for not toeing the line in other matters.

This government has announced that she will do away with this nonsense.
#15137644
noemon wrote:The income tax rate is 22-45%, corporate tax is 29%, vat/sales tax is 24%. They're on the high side.

But still all these are a bit besides the point I'm trying to make. The point was that if your real income is say 50k per year but you own a Porsche and a swimming pool you will be taxed for 150k per year regardless if your income is truly 50k and regardless if the tax bill is higher than you gross income.
This creates very obvious problems to people who will then rightfully do anything to hide their possessions by writing these possessions to their children, ghost companies and so on and forth. These ridiculous laws have given rise to entire ecosystems as to how to work around them, which in turn was then weaponised by certain media and countries that were bashing on Greece for not toeing the line in other matters.

This government has announced that she will do away with this nonsense.


That's not a tax. That's just simple redistribution. I guess that's why I started going off on a tangent. I was arguing oranges along with the apples.
EU-BREXIT

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTdMH46X[…]

Venezuela judge convicts 6 American oil execs, or[…]

Being grateful to a billionaire for graciously pro[…]

As you say, this is a choice of the consumer, and[…]