France: Threatening Letter From Retired Generals to Macron - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15170252
Rugoz wrote:You made the original claim, namely that the French earn as much as "Yugoslavs", so you have to provide the statistics.

Besides, I provided a newspaper source.


OK. I tried to find but there are no specific about French. Most Yugoslavs have Swiss passports so they are counted as Swiss.

You provided an newspaper source but Germans and French are in the same group.
#15170270
Saeko wrote:Criticizing the head of state is nowhere near the same thing as threatening a coup. But I realize your Republican brain is too small to understand the difference, and that your neo-confederate fee-fees cannot handle any criticism of Don-Il-Douche.

Using criminal investigations to try to force someone from power is in the nature of a coup. Using phony impeachments to force someone from power is in the nature of a coup. Stuffing ballot boxes is in the nature of a coup. For all practical purposes, the US deep state is in no position to pretend that it has some sort of moral superiority.

Politics_Observer wrote:Our military leaders weren't threatening a coup like the French generals were.

Our deep state entertained every idea imaginable. Emoluments clause, 25th Amendment, years of criminal investigations that went nowhere, two impeachments, politicizing covid, stuffing the ballot box, etc. There was nothing off the table with Trump.

Sandzak wrote:Therefore France has so much Muslim serial killers/terrorists. France and Germany have a similar Muslim population.

Terrorism leads also to radicalisation on the French side.

That's not exclusively an education issue. Much of the Muslim population lives fundamentally separate lives from the rest of France. There is a lack of integration to the point where there are no-go areas in French cities (not that this isn't true of American cities too).

Politics_Observer wrote:It sounds like France could learn from Switzerland and Germany. Especially, since Germany has a Muslim population but not the same problems as France. Personally, I think the U.S. could also learn from Germany and Switzerland too.

Most of the Turkish population still doesn't have German citizenship. However, they were brought in to work and generally do. Turks aren't Arabic, so there is a distinct cultural difference to people from Algeria, Tunisia, etc.

Politics_Observer wrote:I wanted to share what Michael Cohen has to say about his former boss, Donald Trump now blackjack. Donald Trump doesn't care about you or any of his voters either.

Michael Cohen got rolled by the deep state. They got nothing on Trump, but Cohen has to play their game or he goes back to jail. They are trying to do the same thing to Rudy. That's violating attorney-client privilege, which is exactly the type of thing that Putin or Xi would do. The Democrats and deep state do not have any moral authority. You are kidding yourself if you think I believe politicians care about me.

Politics_Observer wrote: It's good to see Michael Cohen seemingly get back to his old self again that he had prior to meeting and going to work for Trump.

Is it? Cohen was always a scumbag. He's still a scumbag.

Rugoz wrote:BJ, our resident expert on France. :lol:

Hardly. I find myself there about once every 5-7 years starting when I was 18. It's a very different place now. I've seen the same sort of thing growing up in California, where I am a resident expert. It's pitiful.

Rugoz wrote:Pretty sure that's nonsense, the French are among the highest paid foreigners, on average.

École graduates, sure. I'm not sure the average public school kid does so well.

Rugoz wrote:That's not to say the apprenticeship system is bad, but workplace requirements are arguably changing.

There's another key difference: Germany did not de-industrialize like much of France or the United States. So France suffers from some of the same hollowing out of the industrial base seen in the UK and the US.

Sandzak wrote:France has a high youth jobless rate: 19.2
Germany: 6.1

When you break that down by ethnicity, it's often quite revealing. The US collects stats like that, but a lot of countries don't.
#15170276
blackjack21 wrote:Using criminal investigations to try to force someone from power is in the nature of a coup. Using phony impeachments to force someone from power is in the nature of a coup. Stuffing ballot boxes is in the nature of a coup. For all practical purposes, the US deep state is in no position to pretend that it has some sort of moral superiority.


You're trying to change the subject. Since your rodent-tier attention span can't keep up, to reiterate, we were discussing whether mere criticism of a head of state by retired military officers is equivalent to calls for a coup by retired and active officers. And no, they are clearly not.
#15170285
Saeko wrote:Criticizing the head of state is nowhere near the same thing as threatening a coup. But I realize your Republican brain is too small to understand the difference, and that your neo-confederate fee-fees cannot handle any criticism of Don-Il-Douche.




Except it was much more than mere criticising of the head of state. The left, having decided that Trump was illegitimate, promoted and called for top brass to disobey the commander in chief. Basically the left all about advocated the elevation of the Pentagon to a fourth and independent branch of government, free to obey Trump only on its own terms.

And what is your beef with the Confederacy? They were wrong in everything? So wrong that even taking up arms to repel Northern Aggressors also damned them? Did same Northern Fancy Dans not also, in an earlier war, take up arms to repel King George's Redcoats?
#15170301
@blackjack21 @Sandzak

First off, it sounds like the Germans have an excellent program for training people to go to work. However, it's important to understand that though getting job is key component of education, it is not the only component of education. A lot of people go to college or vocational school just so they can get a good paying job only. Education also entails ensuring you are a critical thinker, you keep an open mind and you develop your character to become a better person, a better follower and a better leader and a better citizen who is well informed and makes good decisions and participates in a positive manner in society. Education is also important for making you a better and more productive citizen. Democracy cannot survive without an educated populace.

Greek philosopher Plato for example was wary of democracy because the uneducated masses could be easily manipulated and conned into allowing a strong man destroy democracy and become a dictatorship. So, dictatorships have arisen from democracies as we have seen throughout history like in Germany for example. Plato believed that only the well educated and informed should be allowed to make the political decisions given the dangers that democracy could destroy itself and lead to the rise of a strong man dictator. However, I think the way to prevent democracy from being destroyed from within is to ensure ALL (and not just the select privileged few) be well educated.

So, for democracy to survive education plays a key role for EVERYBODY and not just the select, privileged few. That being said, what the Germans do right is not just only teach theory, but also have apprentice programs that give students actual paid company time where students get the opportunity to apply theory learned in the classroom to the real world working in a company to further develop their skills.

Another thing the German companies do right is not just think ONLY in the short term, but think in the long term. A lot of American companies, especially ones with with a lot of different shareholders only care about short term profit and do not think in the long term. The Germans like to think about the long term, which is smart.

Good paying jobs require a lot of talent and skill. Such skills are hard to learn and require experience to apply well and correctly. So, having education to prepare ALL citizens for jobs AND to be good citizens in a democracy BOTH AT THE SAME TIME is what education should be all about. Education can't just be ONLY for jobs or ONLY to make you a better citizen.

It needs to be BOTH and for EVERYBODY. Do that, you will have a good economy and democracy will have a better chance of surviving. Your education isn't complete if it ONLY prepares you for a job or ONLY prepares you to be a better citizen. You need to have both in your education along with being able to apply theory in a practical environment in the real world to further develop your job skills you will need to survive and pay bills.
#15170312
Juin wrote:Except it was much more than mere criticising of the head of state. The left, having decided that Trump was illegitimate, promoted and called for top brass to disobey the commander in chief. Basically the left all about advocated the elevation of the Pentagon to a fourth and independent branch of government, free to obey Trump only on its own terms.


This has literally nothing to do with the topic at hand unless you believe that former military top brass are all leftists. :coffee:

And what is your beef with the Confederacy? They were wrong in everything? So wrong that even taking up arms to repel Northern Aggressors also damned them? Did same Northern Fancy Dans not also, in an earlier war, take up arms to repel King George's Redcoats?


"Northern Aggressors". Right. Nevermind that the Southern Traitors forsook every oath to the Constitution of the United States they ever took by refusing to recognize the lawfully elected President, abandoned said Constitution entirely, illegally seized federal property, and fired the first shot in that war. And for what? To preserve fucking slavery of all things. It's hard to think of a worse reason to secede and fight a war for. But the South has never been known for its intellectual and moral sophistication.

The absolute filth. The Confederacy and its disgusting legacy have been like an albatross around this country's neck for the last ~200 years.
#15170343
Saeko wrote:
"Northern Aggressors". Right. Nevermind that the Southern Traitors forsook every oath to the Constitution of the United States they ever took by refusing to recognize the lawfully elected President, abandoned said Constitution entirely, illegally seized federal property, and fired the first shot in that war. And for what? To preserve fucking slavery of all things. It's hard to think of a worse reason to secede and fight a war for. But the South has never been known for its intellectual and moral sophistication.

The absolute filth. The Confederacy and its disgusting legacy have been like an albatross around this country's neck for the last ~200 years.





And the Confederacy stands guilty on all counts. Far be it for me to attempt as impossible a task as to make a successful case for the Confederacy. Yet, the Confederacy can point out a degree of hypocrisy in the demonisation of the Confederacy by northern ruffians; Carpetbaggers, bankers, big money that financed slavery and drew immense profits, while all the time professing to be nothing but perfumed financiers not to be blamed for the horror they financed.

Traitors, you say? They were rebels for sure. But all that is besides the point. The mistake of the Confederacy is that it lost to the Northern Aggressors. History does not reward losers. The North won and wrote the history afterwards.

It is actually ok to be a traitor or rebel, provided you make sure you win at the end. The Union hails to this day a pair of notorious sons of the south: Massas Tom Jeff'son and George Washington. Unrepentant slavers. And we are not talking small scale slavery here. Most of my life I knew Massa Tom Jeff'son was a slaver, but it was always only in connection with the sultry Sally Hemmings, which led me to peg him as a slaver, but only as a Romantic. That is until cancel culture went after him, and the horrors in Massa Tom Jeff'son's cupboard spilled out. His was industrial scale slavery. Hundreds of slaves. The whole enchilada of overseers, branding, breeding etc...

Yet in the Union Hall of Fame these pair of notorious slavers enjoy place of honour! Go Figure.

And they were traitors to the Crown. Forsook any oath of fealty they may have ever taken to the Crown. Rebelled against Good King George! Yea, yea, yea, he was mad, but good mad, so Good King George. Did I mention an act of banditry hailed thence as Boston Tea Party?

But the key is to win. To quote al Davis of the Raiders, "Just win, baby". With victory only good things follow. Honours follow. Massa Tom Jeff'son's slave plantations are pushed to the back of the cubpoard, and only Sally Hemmings is left in the picture to bequeath to Massa Tom Jeff'son this image of a Romantic Slaver.


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Last edited by Juin on 02 May 2021 01:18, edited 1 time in total.
#15170515
Politics_Observer wrote:Democracy cannot survive without an educated populace.

This is part of why I'm not so bullish on our current government. The citizenry is failing. Coronavirus led to the hoarding of toilet paper, for example. People apparently are that stupid.

Politics_Observer wrote:That being said, what the Germans do right is not just only teach theory, but also have apprentice programs that give students actual paid company time where students get the opportunity to apply theory learned in the classroom to the real world working in a company to further develop their skills.

Precisely. This was the core criticism of The Bell Curve. Hollowing out high schools to be just a pre-college system and then outsourcing manufacturing led to our current situation.

Education isn't why former French military officers are warning of a pending civil war. That has much more to do with immigration and non-assimilation.

Saeko wrote:You're trying to change the subject.

I'm saying America isn't a country that can claim moral authority on issues like this anymore.

Saeko wrote:Since your rodent-tier attention span can't keep up, to reiterate, we were discussing whether mere criticism of a head of state by retired military officers is equivalent to calls for a coup by retired and active officers. And no, they are clearly not.

Apparently, the letter warns of a potential civil war. It doesn't call for removing Macron by force. The media, as usual, misportrayed it as something like the failed coup attempt when De Gaulle was president.

Either way, trying to make these distinctions and wage a moral argument won't work anymore. Anyone with a memory can recall Lt. Col Vindman and Eric Ciaramella trying to get Trump removed from office with a phony Ukraine narrative. We've already seen this here in the United States.

Saeko wrote:But the South has never been known for its intellectual and moral sophistication.

The South is known for being quite religious. They don't call it the Bible Belt for nothing. The South is known for producing great writers like William Faulkner, Tennessee Williams, Mark Twain, Booker T. Washington, H.L. Mencken, and Thomas Sowell. Thomas Jefferson was a slave holder from Virginia, founded the University of Virginia and with Edmund Ruffin virtually set up the public education system in the United States. Jefferson invented the wheel cypher, swivel chair, iron moldboard plow, letter copier, and the dumb waiter. Cyrus McCormick invented the grain reaper. Ephraim McDowell is considered the father of abdominal surgery. Walter Reed discovered the cause of Yellow Fever. Ben Bernanke is from Georgia. The South is well known for jazz, blues, rock and roll and country music. Dr. John Stith Pemberton invented Coca Cola. The South is well known for having massive cultural influence on the United States and the world. Elvis Presley anyone?

Saeko wrote:The Confederacy and its disgusting legacy have been like an albatross around this country's neck for the last ~200 years.

The Confederacy only lasted five years, and its inception isn't even 200 years old. What's interesting is people who lament a geographic region who have never been there, and think the South is just a bunch of idiots and racists. That is the product of poor education provided by bitter liberals.

Politics_Observer wrote:Yeah, I am sure southerners learned this lesson that it sucks to be on the losing side when Sherman marched to the sea through Georgia burning the city of Atlanta down and a bunch of houses and farms on the way down to Savannah.

Which would be considered a war crime today.
#15170517
@blackjack21

War itself is a crime that is just one big suck fest. Which is one of many reasons why it's important to prevent it to begin with. Joe seems to be following a foreign policy based around the concept of prevention, especially since he has had children who served in the recent wars here lately. I think this is good foreign policy that will save lives and lots of money. I am glad to see Joe pursuing this kind of foreign policy. That being said, the South gets picked on for it's racism but the thing is, ALL of America has a racism problem. It's a problem that is not unique to the South but is an American problem all the way around no matter what region of the country you go to. You are quite correct, the South has some awesome culture down here, good food, beautiful women, great bands, great artists, writers and thinkers.

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