Italy trying to increase their birthrate - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15172528
The country of Italy is embarking on an initiative to increase their birth rate.

Right now, birth rates across Europe are low, but the problem is especially dire in Italy due to the economic situation there.
Italians claim they cannot afford families, especially younger Italians, and especially in the Southern half of the country.


Of course, the country could just let in immigrants to solve the problem, but they want to preserve their country's culture. They don't want Italy to turn into just another version of North Africa.



As Italy records a historic low birthrate and the president calls for "every possible initiative" to reverse the trend, we look at why it's happening and what's really being done.

A new record low number of births was registered in Italy in 2019, according to the latest data released this week by national statistics bureau Istat.

There were just 435,000 births registered in Italy last year, the lowest on record, meaning the country's overall population is ageing more than ever before.

The growing demographic crisis, with births falling and life expectancy rising, is thought to be both a symptom and one of the causes of Italy's chronically stagnant economy.

While most Italians do want to have at least two children, according to Istat, experts point out that Italy's high levels of unemployment, the proliferation of badly-paid, short-term work contracts, and a lack of affordable housing and childcare mean many young people put off starting a family as they think it's unaffordable to do

The average age at which women in Italy have their first child is now 31 - the oldest in the EU

As younger Italians continue to move abroad to find work, immigrants increasingly make up a new tax-paying workforce in Italy, as well as caring for the ageing Italian population.

The majority of professional caregivers in Italy - 80 percent by some estimates - are foreigners.

What is Italy doing to increase its plummeting birth rate? - The Local
https://www.thelocal.it/20200212/what-i ... irth-rate/


Prime Minister Mario Draghi is seeking to turn around the decline in Italy’s birth rate with a 21 billion-euro ($25.4 billion) plan including measures like a universal income for all workers.

The situation looks critical, after the country’s natality fell to a record low in 2020 with about 16,000 fewer births compared with the previous year. Experts say the economic fallout from the pandemic is to blame, with the impact hitting women particularly hard.

"Without children, Italy’s fate is to age, and then disappear," Draghi said Friday at an event dedicated to supporting family growth. The premier confirmed that his government is planning to extend benefits for couples and women, including cash payments for families with children.

Italy recorded only 404,000 births in 2020, about 30% fewer than 30 years ago.​

Italy Birth Rate Lower Than Ever, PM Mario Draghi Wants to Fix It - Bloomberg
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -to-fix-it
#15172530
Europeans and Japanese are are destined to become extinct due to a low fertility rate. Italy without Italians is not Italy in the same manner that China is not China without Chinese people. Meanwhile some left wing nuts still believe in the population bomb of Paul Elrich.
#15172630
Pants-of-dog wrote:Is this just for Italians in Italy, or for Italians in general?

The millions of Italians living abroad may be part of the immigrant population boom in other countries.

Half of Argentina is Italian including the Pope. However, if there are no Italians in Italy then Italy could become Muslim like North Africa. And they would destroy all the relics from the ancient past. Saint Peters would become a musk just as they did with the catholic church in Cordova, Spain.
Last edited by Julian658 on 15 May 2021 19:49, edited 1 time in total.
#15172641
Pants-of-dog wrote:[usermention=39424]

@Julian658[/usermention]

Are you arguing that Muslims want to destroy Western civilisation?



No, he is saying we are doing it to ourselves with the low fertility rate.

It's dumb, it's dreary, its another from Julian..
#15172645
Pants-of-dog wrote:@Julian658

Are you arguing that Muslims want to destroy Western civilisation?

Not all. The smart highly educated ones love the West for obvious reasons.

I am talking about the religious fundamentalists.
#15172646
late wrote:No, he is saying we are doing it to ourselves with the low fertility rate.

It's dumb, it's dreary, its another from Julian..

A low fertility rate is a big deal. The Chinese forced a low fertility rate on their people and it did not work.
#15172666
Julian658 wrote:Not all. The smart highly educated ones love the West for obvious reasons.

I am talking about the religious fundamentalists.


Are you arguing that all religious fundamentalists are bad, or just Muslim ones?

Also, you dodged the question about Italians.
#15172685
Pants-of-dog wrote:Are you arguing that all religious fundamentalists are bad, or just Muslim ones?

Also, you dodged the question about Italians.


All fundamentalists are bad and that includes Christianity. I may also add non deity based religions such as hard core socialism, anti racism, tree huggers, Trumpism, and wokenism. Any fundie movement is problematic.

Italians need to reproduce in Italy and not n Argentina or the US. When I visited the Vatican I had a Greco Roman. We enjoyed hanging out with Italians in Italy. Same applies to France and other European nations.
#15172705
Julian658 wrote:Half of Argentina is Italian including the Pope. However, if there are no Italians in Italy then Italy could become Muslim like North Africa. And they would destroy all the relics from the ancient past. Saint Peters would become a musk just as they did with the catholic church in Cordova, Spain.



You mean Saint Peters will receive the Hagia Sophia treatment? al Majid al Peters may be the new name.
#15172715
Julian658 wrote:All fundamentalists are bad and that includes Christianity. I may also add non deity based religions such as hard core socialism, anti racism, tree huggers, Trumpism, and wokenism. Any fundie movement is problematic.


Yes, you often say this and never really explain why you believe it so fervently.

You could be described as a fundamentalist traditional liberal. Do you think your fundamentalist approach to politics is just as bad as Muslims?

Italians need to reproduce in Italy and not n Argentina or the US. When I visited the Vatican I had a Greco Roman. We enjoyed hanging out with Italians in Italy. Same applies to France and other European nations.


So you think Italians should be deported back to Italy or be sterilized?
#15172724
The Italian ethnicity is clearly dying off, as are most other ethnicities centered in high economically developed countries, mainly due to birth control technology and females who want to work full-time. I should visit more of these countries before their local cultures disappear further.

On the bright side lower birth rates are good for the environment. Not sure you can force women to have more babies. I would think having and raising children would be more fulfilling than being a corporate whore but that's just me.

Also, white people trying to preserve their culture and ethnicity is racist.
#15172726
Pants-of-dog wrote:Yes, you often say this and never really explain why you believe it so fervently.

You could be described as a fundamentalist traditional liberal. Do you think your fundamentalist approach to politics is just as bad as Muslims?


I am a libertarian to the left of the midline POD. I am a capitalist but favor national Health Care, LGTBQIA+ rights, and favor abortion.



So you think Italians should be deported back to Italy or be sterilized?


Descendants of Italians in other nations are not Italian citizens. Italy needs a higher fertility rate to survive. Did you know that the North of Africa used to be Christian? Today it is Muslim. Did you know the Muslims sacked Saint Peters and raided Saint Peters in 846? It will happen again if Italians become extinct by not having children.
#15172727
Unthinking Majority wrote:The Italian ethnicity is clearly dying off, as are most other ethnicities centered in high economically developed countries, mainly due to birth control technology and females who want to work full-time. I should visit more of these countries before their local cultures disappear further.


Feminists have preached a career and to avoid or delayed childbirth. Many of these women have a change of heart in their early 40s when all their eggs are basically spoiled. They also discover all the good men are already married and end up with losers. Many are alone in their old age with no family. Youung couples fail to understand the joy of creating a family .

On the bright side lower birth rates are good for the environment. Not sure you can force women to have more babies. I would think having and raising children would be more fulfilling than being a corporate whore but that's just me.


I agree!

Also, white people trying to preserve their culture and ethnicity is racist.


Yes, and preserving the culture is described as “ethnic” pride if claimed by a minority.
#15172731
Julian658 wrote:I am a libertarian to the left of the midline POD. I am a capitalist but favor national Health Care, LGTBQIA+ rights, and favor abortion.


I know.

And you do not disagree that you are fundamentalist about all this.

So, I guess you do not disagree that you are just as dangerous as a Muslim.

Descendants of Italians in other nations are not Italian citizens. Italy needs a higher fertility rate to survive. Did you know that the North of Africa used to be Christian? Today it is Muslim. Did you know the Muslims sacked Saint Peters and raided Saint Peters in 846? It will happen again if Italians become extinct by not having children.


You seem to be arguing that Muslims are bad and want to destroy western civilization.

Do you think we should deport the Italians to MENA countries and force them to have lots of kids so we can take back these lands?

Your ideas about weaponising uteruses seems to ignore what Italian women want. How is this different from a fundamentalist Muslim?

———————-

@Unthinking Majority

When will Italy succumb to the Muslims and/or non-whites? Please be specific. Thanks.
#15172738
Pants-of-dog wrote:I know.

And you do not disagree that you are fundamentalist about all this.

So, I guess you do not disagree that you are just as dangerous as a Muslim.



POD

I am firmly planted in the center. That means I agree with some left and right wing issues. In other words I am a moderate with an open mind. It seems you are offended when I said socialism can be like a religion. Why would you take offense about that?

You seem to be arguing that Muslims are bad and want to destroy western civilization.


You are a stem man and perhaps never studied history. The islamists have had their sights on Europe for centuries. Are you been naive on purpose?


What will be the fate of an ethnic group where couples have a fertility rate that is well below 2.0? You are a stem man so this is right down your alley.
#15172739
Pants-of-dog wrote:When will Italy succumb to the Muslims and/or non-whites? Please be specific. Thanks.

I have no idea what demographic trends project in Italy specifically. But I do know that their birthrate is 1.3 per woman, which is among the very lowest in the world, and well below replacement levels. So if that continues then eventually people of Italian ancestry in Italy will cease to exist. Even Chile has below replacement reproduction.

Technology and globalization are changing many things. People no longer live in the same kinds of societies they did for thousands of years. Maybe one day there will only be one race and culture of people, all mixed together.
#15172741
Puffer Fish wrote:Right now, birth rates across Europe are low, but the problem is especially dire in Italy due to the economic situation there.
Italians claim they cannot afford families, especially younger Italians, and especially in the Southern half of the country.

Julian658 wrote:Europeans and Japanese are are destined to become extinct due to a low fertility rate. Italy without Italians is not Italy in the same manner that China is not China without Chinese people.

I don't think the existential crisis is population, or even necessarily the culture. I think the 20th Century welfare state and the effects of feminism and the sexual revolution are coming to a head. It will be difficult to maintain a pay-as-you-go welfare state with a declining population.

It's also why I think multiculturalism is a non-answer. Here was are in 2021, and people are trying to get school kids to learn to hate each other based on race. Who is going to want to pay taxes for a bunch of old people with a different cultural background? Obviously, they didn't think this out too well.

Julian658 wrote:Meanwhile some left wing nuts still believe in the population bomb of Paul Elrich.

Population will still go up for a few decades globally, but it will decline in the advanced economies. This has the potential to destabilize them.
You can prove a negative.

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