[wat0n]

Canada has found ways to turn immigration into an economic engine. For people who support capitalism and the globalist effects of capitalism, why is this a bad thing?

It's a good thing if they can pull it off. Plenty of countries can't, in part because they can't screen immigrants like Canada does due to geographic reasons.

[Pants-of-dog]

Since most countries in the developed world do not share a border with the developing world (where most refugees come from), then most countries in the developed world should also be able to create immigration programs that make their economies stronger.

It seems odd to blame migration for the lack of these policies.

[wat0n]

Since most countries in the developed world do not share a border with the developing world (where most refugees come from), then most countries in the developed world should also be able to create immigration programs that make their economies stronger.

It seems odd to blame migration for the lack of these policies.

I agree with you about that. But some rather notable examples do share borders with the developing world... Like all of southern Europe and the US, for example. Of course, in those cases there will be issues due to volume alone, even if the goodwill is there (and it's questionable if it is, as societies seem to be divided about immigration).

[Pants-of-dog]

In terms of France and Sweden, neither country share a border with the developing world.

France gets most of its immigrants from its former colonies, so the cause of that migration is due to colonialism and not geography. Sweden gets most of its migrants from poorer parts of Europe and more recently, refugees from places where the west has invaded.

[boomerintown]

Canada basically hand-picks its immigrants. Then it goes around and tells everyone how awesome multikulti is. Fuck Canada.

Thank you. It is in my opinion dispicable to do this and then condemn what european countries do to handle real problems. I mean look at this guy, asking for PROOF that the migration crisis in Europe lead to massive problems with low educated migrants. If you know this little about what is going on, you should educate yourself instead of asking others to do so.

And now he writes "Sweden got most of its migrants from poorer european countries". I am dying.

[boomerintown]

I agree with you about that. But some rather notable examples do share borders with the developing world... Like all of southern Europe and the US, for example. Of course, in those cases there will be issues due to volume alone, even if the goodwill is there (and it's questionable if it is, as societies seem to be divided about immigration).

Why do you agree with this. Noone is "blaming migration", everyone are blaming their own countries policies.

Changing these policies is EXACLY what people are demanding. This isnt some stereotypical "immigrants are stealing jobs"-voices. This is people taking its countries politics seriously.

This constant attempt of calling any form of criticism of migration policies "blaming the immigrants" should be called it out for what it is. The contempt of ordinary people by an urban middle class whos interests are aligned with migration, in order to get cheap services with people in precarious jobs with horrible conditions making sure they get cheap food delivered to their door and at the same time pushing wages down for ordinary people.

The conflict isnt a moral one, it is about class interest.

[wat0n]

Why do you agree with this. Noone is "blaming migration", everyone are blaming their own countries policies.

Changing these policies is EXACLY what people are demanding. This isnt some stereotypical "immigrants are stealing jobs"-voices. This is people taking its countries politics seriously.

This constant attempt of calling any form of criticism of migration policies "blaming the immigrants" should be called it out for what it is. The contempt of ordinary people by an urban middle class whos interests are aligned with migration, in order to get cheap services with people in precarious jobs with horrible conditions making sure they get cheap food delivered to their door and at the same time pushing wages down for ordinary people.

The conflict isnt a moral one, it is about class interest.

He's saying Sweden and France do have a fair amount of choice of who, and how many, can immigrate so one would expect them to have less trouble with their integration into their societies. He isn't wrong about that.

[boomerintown]

He's saying Sweden and France do have a fair amount of choice of who, and how many, can immigrate so one would expect them to have less trouble with their integration into their societies. He isn't wrong about that.

Which is what I wrote in my first post ("So first of all, for many countries you need a temporary stop of migrants. You simply cant continue to expand the problem while you are figuring out how to deal with it."), which he again and again translated to "blaming it on migration", which he did again in the quote you replied to.

It is this attempt of missrepresenting your opponent I think we need to simply dismiss as a part of a discourse. Yes, we need to todays migration policies, and minimizing the number of refugees we take in (which is the case for many european countries). If you want to call this blaming it on migration or not is irrelevant, it is a semantic trick used be people who dont want to reduce migration.

[wat0n]

Which is what I wrote in my first post ("So first of all, for many countries you need a temporary stop of migrants. You simply cant continue to expand the problem while you are figuring out how to deal with it."), which he again and again translated to "blaming it on migration", which he did again in the quote you replied to.

It is this attempt of missrepresenting your opponent I think we need to simply dismiss as a part of a discourse. Yes, we need to todays migration policies, and minimizing the number of refugees we take in (which is the case for many european countries). If you want to call this blaming it on migration or not is irrelevant, it is a semantic trick used be people who dont want to reduce migration.

Indeed, I don't disagree with you here. Canada also seems to have low numbers of illegal immigrants, and they seem to make sure immigrants are able to integrate into Canadian society for the most part - of course it has mild issues with immigration.

[boomerintown]

Indeed, I don't disagree with you here. Canada also seems to have low numbers of illegal immigrants, and they seem to make sure immigrants are able to integrate into Canadian society for the most part - of course it has mild issues with immigration.

Yeah, and I think it is only people who are blind to class and can only see migrants as a homogenous groups who dont understand this (which is to be honest extremly prejudiced).

I mean iranian migrants (which is the biggest group of "middle class migrants" we have) do extremly well. They are for instance overrepresented in the parliament. And we see the exact same thing with the previous Afghan wave, since it is the middle class who have the alternative to travel through airplanes. I think essentially all groups who have come here with airplanes have integrated well, it is a HUGE class marker.

Canada, I assume, get mostly migrants who are able to take airplanes. The day they start seeing ships from Africa and Middle East packed with illegal migrants they can start comparing their issues with Europe.

(Sorry for these texts, I think we are mostly in agreement with all of this, it is just so frustrating with people without a clue about the situation tries to discuss it. )

[Pants-of-dog]

Thank you. It is in my opinion dispicable to do this and then condemn what european countries do to handle real problems.

All I did was use Canada as a real world example to disprove the claim that migration causes crime.

It worked.

You backtracked from that argument.

I mean look at this guy, asking for PROOF that the migration crisis in Europe lead to massive problems with low educated migrants. If you know this little about what is going on, you should educate yourself instead of asking others to do so.

And I also presented a quote from the Swedish government saying that migrants do not cause crime.

And now he writes "Sweden got most of its migrants from poorer european countries". I am dying.

Yes, if you look at the stats, most migrants have come from other European states, and this only changed recently.