[Pants-of-dog]

……

They are areas:

* where the police have difficulty or almost impossible to complete their missions
* where there are parallel societal structures
* where residents are reluctant to participate in the legal process
* where abuse in court is common, such as systematic threats against witnesses and plaintiffs
* with violent religious extremism where people travel to take part in fighting in conflict areas and fundamentalists restrict people's freedoms such as religious freedom
* with ethnic segregation
* with a high concentration of criminals

2019 there were 22 areas that filled these criterias according to the police. It is actually one less than in 2017, but in 2015 there were only 15.
….

Please provide evidence for this claim. Thank you.

[boomerintown]

Please provide evidence for this claim. Thank you.

Its based on official reports from the police, they are in swedish but you can find them here (on the bottom of the page):
https://polisen.se/om-polisen/polisens- ... a-omraden/

You can find some things in english here: https://www.bra.se/bra-in-english/home.html, for instance a recent report that showed that the risk of being registered as a crime suspect is 2.5 times as high among persons born abroad as it is among persons born in Sweden to two native-born parents. For persons born in Sweden to two non-native parents, the risk is just over 3 times as high. The numbers increase even more if you look at groups with middle eastern and african heritage.

But again, most is in swedish: https://www.bra.se/forskning-och-analys ... raden.html

("Brå is an agency under the auspices of the Ministry of Justice and a knowledge centre for the criminal justice system. The agency's mandate is to contribute to the development of knowledge within the criminal justice system and the criminal policy area, as well as to promote crime prevention work.")

[Pants-of-dog]

Its based on official reports from the police, they are in swedish but you can find them here (on the bottom of the page):
https://polisen.se/om-polisen/polisens- ... a-omraden/

You can find some things in english here: https://www.bra.se/bra-in-english/home.html, for instance a recent report that showed that the risk of being registered as a crime suspect is 2.5 times as high among persons born abroad as it is among persons born in Sweden to two native-born parents. For persons born in Sweden to two non-native parents, the risk is just over 3 times as high. The numbers increase even more if you look at groups with middle eastern and african heritage.

But again, most is in swedish: https://www.bra.se/forskning-och-analys ... raden.html

("Brå is an agency under the auspices of the Ministry of Justice and a knowledge centre for the criminal justice system. The agency's mandate is to contribute to the development of knowledge within the criminal justice system and the criminal policy area, as well as to promote crime prevention work.")

Please quote the relevant text in English supporting your claims.

[boomerintown]

Please quote the relevant text in English supporting your claims.

What are you talking about with relevant text in english? I told you, this is based on reports from the swedish police. They are roughly 10 pages long and in swedish.

[Pants-of-dog]

What are you talking about with relevant text in english? I told you, this is based on reports from the swedish police. They are roughly 10 pages long and in swedish.

Then you need to find a source in English.

Or translate the text.

Let me know when you have. Thanks.

If you want, you can restrict yourself to the first claim, that police cannot operate in these areas.

[boomerintown]

Then you need to find a source in English.

Or translate the text.

Let me know when you have. Thanks.

If you want, you can restrict yourself to the first claim, that police cannot operate in these areas.

I dont need to do anything, you are not some judge here. You are just some Trump-like figure yelling fake news claiming you know whats going on in areas you obviously know nothing about.

I have shown you my sources, if you want to translate them you can easily do so yourself.

[Pants-of-dog]

I dont need to do anything, you are not some judge here. You are just some Trump-like figure yelling fake news claiming you know whats going on in areas you obviously know nothing about. I have shown you my sources, if you want to translate them you can easily do so yourself.

And I stick with all the claims, since they are official claims by a swedish state agency. I trust them over some random internet troll.

Are you white?

[boomerintown]

Are you white?

What difference does it make?

[Pants-of-dog]

What difference does it make?

So that is a “yes”.

Why do you feel like you do not need to provide evidence for your claims?

[boomerintown]

So that is a “yes”.

Why do you feel like you do not need to provide evidence for your claims?

Its not a yes, I just wanted to see if you were a race-essentialist who think individuals should be judged based on race.

I have provided evidence.

As Ive written, the reports can be downloaded here for anyone who is interested: https://polisen.se/om-polisen/polisens- ... a-omraden/

Either way, the problem is well established whatever you say and luckily it is at least recognized by all serious actors, even though we disagree about the solution.

What some Trump-like racist on a forum says really doesnt matter. I dont think I can add more.

[Pants-of-dog]

Its not a yes, I just wanted to see if you were a race-essentialist who think individuals should be judged based on race.

I have provided evidence.

No, you provided links.

Then you assumed that I would put together your argument for you after that. Why did you assume I wiuld do the work for you?

[Rich]

Are you white?

Well I'm a person of tan, but I still consider the term racially offensive. Like all morphological racial bigots the terms they use are never clear. Are Japanese people White for example. You can never get a clear example on this. Now I confess I like having a good tan, I'm lucky that I'm able to spend quite long hours in summer working under the sun without getting burnt, or covering myself in chemicals. Note this is yet another area of life where we are meant cower in fear and be dependant on the pharmaceutical - sickness industrial complex. But just because I'm lucky in this regard I've no need to insult for example Irish people by calling them red necks just because they don't tan easily.

[Pants-of-dog]

It appears that immigration is not the cause of crime in Sweden.

Claim: “Immigrants are behind the increase in crime”

Facts: The Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention (Brå) has conducted two studies on the representation of people with foreign backgrounds among crime suspects, the most recent in 2005. The studies show that the majority of those suspected of crimes were born in Sweden with two Swedish-born parents. The studies also show that the vast majority of people with foreign backgrounds are not suspected of any crime. People with foreign backgrounds are suspected of crimes more often than people with Swedish backgrounds. According to the most recent study, people with foreign backgrounds are 2.5 times more likely to be suspected of crimes than people born in Sweden to Swedish-born parents.

In a study from 2013, researchers at Stockholm University showed that the main difference in terms of criminal activity between immigrants and others in the population in Sweden was due to differences in the socioeconomic conditions in which they grew up. This means factors such as parents’ incomes and the social conditions in the area in which an individual grew up.

A literature review by Brå in 2019, covering Nordic studies on crime and foreign background 2005-2019, finds similar results - people with foreign background are somewhat overrepresented, and the overrepresentation vary between countries of origin and type of crime. According to Brå factors that lead to segregation – for example low level of education and lack of employment or other occupation – also seem to contribute to a higher level of crime amongst people with foreign background. Factors as war traumas, mental illness and the level of crime, conflict and economic development in the country of origin might also be factors that contribute to explain some of the differences.

https://www.government.se/articles/2017 ... f6506e5ffb

[boomerintown]

It appears that immigration is not the cause of crime in Sweden.

Claim: “Immigrants are behind the increase in crime”

Facts: The Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention (Brå) has conducted two studies on the representation of people with foreign backgrounds among crime suspects, the most recent in 2005. The studies show that the majority of those suspected of crimes were born in Sweden with two Swedish-born parents. The studies also show that the vast majority of people with foreign backgrounds are not suspected of any crime. People with foreign backgrounds are suspected of crimes more often than people with Swedish backgrounds. According to the most recent study, people with foreign backgrounds are 2.5 times more likely to be suspected of crimes than people born in Sweden to Swedish-born parents.

In a study from 2013, researchers at Stockholm University showed that the main difference in terms of criminal activity between immigrants and others in the population in Sweden was due to differences in the socioeconomic conditions in which they grew up. This means factors such as parents’ incomes and the social conditions in the area in which an individual grew up.

A literature review by Brå in 2019, covering Nordic studies on crime and foreign background 2005-2019, finds similar results - people with foreign background are somewhat overrepresented, and the overrepresentation vary between countries of origin and type of crime. According to Brå factors that lead to segregation – for example low level of education and lack of employment or other occupation – also seem to contribute to a higher level of crime amongst people with foreign background. Factors as war traumas, mental illness and the level of crime, conflict and economic development in the country of origin might also be factors that contribute to explain some of the differences.

https://www.government.se/articles/2017 ... f6506e5ffb

Almost anything in this quote supports the hypothesis that a very large migration have lead to massive problems in Sweden. For instance, hundreds of thousands of people with extremly low education (sometimes illiterate even in their own language) ending up in ethnically segregated suburb are behind most factors mentioned there.

It also mentions a study from 2005 showing that people with foreign background are 2,5 more likely to be suspected of crime than native swedes. A new report from 2021 shows that the difference today are 2,5 times more for foreign born citizens and 3 times more for people born in Sweden with foreign born parents.

"The risk of being registered as a crime suspect is 2.5 times as high among persons born abroad as it is among persons born in Sweden to two native-born parents. For persons born in Sweden to two non-native parents, the risk is just over 3 times as high."

https://www.bra.se/bra-in-english/home/ ... round.html

So, its basically beyound any question that a large migration have caused an increase in criminality. The question is how to solve it where we are today. And here is where Sweden, France and other countries with similar problems can learn from eachother, so therefore it would be interesting to discuss with people who actually know anything about the issue.

Its easy to sit in Canada and say that we dont have any problems and therefore shouldnt do anything about it...

[Pants-of-dog]

Almost anything in this quote supports the hypothesis that a very large migration have lead to massive problems in Sweden. For instance, hundreds of thousands of people with extremly low education (sometimes illiterate even in their own language) ending up in ethnically segregated suburb are behind most factors mentioned there.

No. That is not what the text says. You must have misread.

It is possible that you are misreading this because you have a belief that immigrants are generally uneducated.

It also mentions a study from 2005 showing that people with foreign background are 2,5 more likely to be suspected of crime than native swedes. A new report from 2021 shows that the difference today are 2,5 times more for foreign born citizens and 3 times more for people born in Sweden with foreign born parents.

"The risk of being registered as a crime suspect is 2.5 times as high among persons born abroad as it is among persons born in Sweden to two native-born parents. For persons born in Sweden to two non-native parents, the risk is just over 3 times as high."

https://www.bra.se/bra-in-english/home/ ... round.html

…and then the text I quoted goes on to explain that this is due to three things:

1. Immigrants are generally younger, and young people commit more crimes than old ones.
2. Immigrants are generally segregated to poorer neighbourhoods, and people from these neighbourhoods tend to commit more crime, and….
3. Immigrants generally cannot access the same educational opportunities, and this is also associated with crime.

Basically, crime in Sweden is associated with youth, poverty, and lack of access to education. So Swedes that deal with these three things are just as likely to commit crimes as Swedes.

So, its basically beyound any question that a large migration have caused an increase in criminality. The question is how to solve it where we are today. And here is where Sweden, France and other countries with similar problems can learn from eachother, so therefore it would be interesting to discuss with people who actually know anything about the issue.

Its easy to sit in Canada and say that we dont have any problems and therefore shouldnt do anything about it...

Migration did not cause crime, and you have no evidence to support any such claim.

In Canada, there are far more immigrants. Some cities are more than 50% immigrants. By your logic, these places should be crime hot spots. Instead, some of them are considered the safest cities in the world.

[Rancid]

Alright, now i know where to go when I need drugs in paris.

[boomerintown]

No. That is not what the text says. You must have misread.

It is possible that you are misreading this because you have a belief that immigrants are generally uneducated.

…and then the text I quoted goes on to explain that this is due to three things:

1. Immigrants are generally younger, and young people commit more crimes than old ones.
2. Immigrants are generally segregated to poorer neighbourhoods, and people from these neighbourhoods tend to commit more crime, and….
3. Immigrants generally cannot access the same educational opportunities, and this is also associated with crime.

Basically, crime in Sweden is associated with youth, poverty, and lack of access to education. So Swedes that deal with these three things are just as likely to commit crimes as Swedes.

...which have been my point all along. We have had a migration of poorly educated people (mostly young men) from countries with very different cultures in numbers we cant handle.

Therefore we see these poor and segregated areas, where few people speak swedish well, and were the schools are generally worse. Which in turn leads to the factors mentioned in this report. So yes, its direcly connected to migration.

Therefore we need to temporary go down to the minimum requirement according to the UN deals we have signed, until we have solved these problems.

Because when the basement is flooded, the first thing you need to do is turn off the faucet.

[Pants-of-dog]

...which have been my point all along. We have had a migration of poorly educated people (mostly young men) from countries with very different cultures in numbers we cant handle.

No. Immigrants are not uneducated. You must have misread.

It is possible that you are misreading this because you have a belief that immigrants are generally uneducated.

Again, these young men are growing up in Sweden and if they have low levels of education, it us because Swedish institutions are not offering the same educational opportunities as they do for children of native born Swedes.

Therefore we see these poor and segregated areas, where few people speak swedish well, and were the schools are generally worse. Which in turn leads to the factors mentioned in this report. So yes, its direcly connected to migration.

Yes, they are connected, but it would be wrong to say that crime is caused by by migration.

It would be more correct to say that crime in Sweden affects mostly those neighbourhoods where migrants live, because if inequality in Sweden in terms of wealth and educational opportunities.

Therefore we need to temporary go down to the minimum requirement according to the UN deals we have signed, until we have solved these problems.

Because when the basement is flooded, the first thing you need to do is turn off the faucet.

No. Because crime is not caused by migration, limiting migration will not impact crime levels.

We can check your argument another way:

If you can show when mass migration started, and you can also show that there was a sharp inctease in crime shortly after that, you would have part of an argument.

Can you please show that?

[boomerintown]

No. Immigrants are not uneducated. You must have misread.

It is possible that you are misreading this because you have a belief that immigrants are generally uneducated.

There is no such thing as how "immigrants generally are". You need to drop the idea that all immigrants are the same.

I am talking about a specific migration to Sweden (and Europe as a whole) from countries like Syria, Iraq, Somalia, Afghanistan and so on. The education level in this group is extremly low, with a few exception with western standards. Its not uncommon that people havent went to high schools, and in extreme cases they are illiterate.

Canada for instance takes in mostly highly educated immigrants as I understand it.

There are virtually no similarities with these two groups except that you call them all immigrants.

The kind of migration I am talking about leads to more and more people living in poor and segregated areas, where few people speak swedish well and with little contact to the majority society. Because of this, as Ive said several times now, the generation after will grow up in poverty, in segregation, in areas where few people speaks swedish well, go in bad schools, have little contact with the majority society and so on. This cycle will just continue to repeat itself unless it is handled.

Therefore, we need to limit migration to not make this even worse, and and then start to deal with the problems.

[Pants-of-dog]

There is no such thing as how "immigrants generally are". You need to drop the idea that all immigrants are the same.

Actually, it is you who are claiming (without evidence) the somewhat racist argument that immigrants are uneducated.

And so I agree that people should not make generalisations as you are doing.

I am talking about a specific migration to Sweden (and Europe as a whole) from countries like Syria, Iraq, Somalia, Afghanistan and so on. The education level in this group is extremly low, with a few exception with western standards. Its not uncommon that people havent went to high schools, and in extreme cases they are illiterate.

Provide evidence for this claim.

By that I mean you will provide a link to a reputable source. You will quote the relevant text. You will explain how the text supports your claim.

Canada for instance takes in mostly highly educated immigrants as I understand it.

There are virtually no similarities with these two groups except that you call them all immigrants.

The kind of migration I am talking about leads to more and more people living in poor and segregated areas, where few people speak swedish well and with little contact to the majority society.

Therefore, we need to limit migration to not make this even worse, and and then start to deal with the problems.

No, Canada just does a better job of helping migrants become economically involved in their communities and in Canadian society in general.

But I agree that it is wrong to simply say that migration causes crime.