Belt and Road... Euro Style - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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By B0ycey
#15200506
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/dec/01/eu-infrastructure-fund-challenge-china-global-influence-asia-africa-eastern-europe-gateway

Well Von Der Leyens Commissionship seems to be making another important milestone today. Taking a lesson from China and learning from their successes and importing them to Europe. Is this the first step for a new superpower and new trade partnerships? Maybe a bit too early to say. But if Macron can bring forward some of his ideas and they can have continental military cooperation and build up their economy more, there is no reason to not believe that the EU can compete as a equal partner to the US and China in the future.

Baby steps and progress. Atlantis would be proud.
#15200513
Rancid wrote:EU empire rising.

I feel like we need another global war.


Perhaps it might reduce the possibility of global war @Rancid. If the great powers move towards economic ties rather and gunboat diplomacy, such initiatives maybe the new path to build up hegemony status in the long term. and as a consequence (or as a positive) the world builds up their infrastructure and economic growth as the superpowers bid for their support. It certainly seems better than bombing for oil. :hmm:
#15200517
How is investing 1/4 of what China is investing 'better'? And they can't build as quickly or efficiently because they don't have the construction companies that China has. I guess the bulk of that 300 billion euro will go to Chinese construction companies.

The key take away is that China's belt and road extends into the EU. The EU won't be building anything in China. The leader has already stepped up. This is just more western farting into the cyclone. First Bidet with his feeble infrastructure plan and now this. Cute.
#15200522
Igor Antunov wrote:How is investing 1/4 of what China is investing 'better'? And they can't build as quickly or efficiently because they don't have the construction companies that China has. I guess the bulk of that 300 billion euro will go to Chinese construction companies.


Construction companies? You mean Evergrande? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I guess the point is some desperate third world country doesn't need to be indebted to China any more and have leverage to seek other economic partners. Besides, economics is the new battlefield given war seems not to work. The EU is seeing what China is doing well and plans on emulating it to their advantage. This isn't about who is better although I am more than sure the €300bn is the first installment of a larger project. The point I guess is to build new economic partnerships and defacto improve their growth the way China has. And in laymen that is saying they are learning and copying. It should have been known for a while now that the EU is clearly looking long term and wants to move away from their reliance in the US. This is just one move on the chess board.

And sure, China have invested in Serbia and whatnot. But I suspect Serbia is merely waiting for their membership to be approved and would no doubt prefer taking EU money than Chinese loans.
#15200541
I guess the point is some desperate third world country doesn't need to be indebted to China any more


Projection. You know that's fake news but you keep peddling it. 90% of African debt is owed to European and American vulture capitalist firms that build nothing and never forgive untenable debts: https://www.theatlantic.com/internation ... cy/617953/

There's a common projection meme going around regarding Barbados now, the reason it turned to republicanism was because of Chinese loans bla bla, except it never took any money from Xi, its entire debt is owed to the IMF. And Serbia is accepting money from all sources, protests about Rio Tinto's lithium mine clue you in yet?
#15200580
Japan's aid programme has been focused on its construction industry for decades. JICA has built loads of infrastructure in SE Asia in exchange for votes at the UN and only a handful of environmentalists bother to notice (how do you think whaling survived for so long?).
#15200581
Igor Antunov wrote:Projection. You know that's fake news but you keep peddling it. 90% of African debt is owed to European and American vulture capitalist firms that build nothing and never forgive untenable debts:


Sure the West is just as bad as China in expecting their debts to be repaid - and perhaps even more so. But you must be naive if you think that China is just handing over money to the third world without strings attached.

The Belt and Road initiative is merely a way of connecting China to the world and getting the world indebted to them in order to manipulate economic ties in their favour. Perhaps no different to the Marshall Plan in that sense. So have the West done this as well? Most definitely. Will the €300bn EU belt and Road Project be just as devious in the same manipulation techniques? I expect so. But the point I was making in any case was not to say that China has handing away untenable debt or that the Third World shouldn't take them. Only that the Belt and Road initiative has been a success for the Chinese economy and the EU should emulate that along with saying that the Third World soon won't be bondaged to one country and as such can seek favourable terms for infrastructure projects given China will soon not have a monopoly. And that is how it should be. The world is shifting. Bombing for economic growth has been failing and investment in nations has been working. If the EU has ambitions to be on par with the US and China in terms of global voice, doing such initiatives today is essential for future prosperity.
#15204562
EU sends a lot of money to developing countries but the EU does not communicate it well to the locals.







Biggest Problem in Africa is the lack of electricity.

I would propose a Green Deal where EU supports African and Mid-Eastern countries in decarbonisation.

Whereas the US helps Latin America and India.
#15204569
B0ycey wrote:
Besides, economics is the new battlefield given war seems not to work.



Um, if the snail's pace of world developments didn't tip you off already, maybe you'll notice that there's almost nothing at stake anymore -- would *you* invade for a 1% return -- ?

*These* days it's the psychotic housing market (rentier capital), and nothing else.


B0ycey wrote:
Sure the West is just as bad as China in expecting their debts to be repaid - and perhaps even more so. But you must be naive if you think that China is just handing over money to the third world without strings attached.

The Belt and Road initiative is merely a way of connecting China to the world and getting the world indebted to them in order to manipulate economic ties in their favour. Perhaps no different to the Marshall Plan in that sense. So have the West done this as well? Most definitely. Will the €300bn EU belt and Road Project be just as devious in the same manipulation techniques? I expect so. But the point I was making in any case was not to say that China has handing away untenable debt or that the Third World shouldn't take them. Only that the Belt and Road initiative has been a success for the Chinese economy and the EU should emulate that along with saying that the Third World soon won't be bondaged to one country and as such can seek favourable terms for infrastructure projects given China will soon not have a monopoly. And that is how it should be. The world is shifting. Bombing for economic growth has been failing and investment in nations has been working. If the EU has ambitions to be on par with the US and China in terms of global voice, doing such initiatives today is essential for future prosperity.




"Chinese loans are not currently a major contributor to debt distress in Africa."[187]



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