Why is Russia so poor? - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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By Scamp
#15209071
Russia's GDP is less than Italy. What are they doing wrong?
Is communism or socialism to blame? Or, are they just retards?
Enlighten me.
By late
#15209072
Scamp wrote:
Russia's GDP is less than Italy. What are they doing wrong?
Is communism or socialism to blame? Or, are they just retards?
Enlighten me.



They have a series of problems.

They have massive amounts of corruption. America is plenty corrupt, but we don't come close to those levels. Putin, all by himself, is siphoning billions for his personal use.

Military expenditures are much higher than they should be. I am going to guess and say ten times.

They don't have Rule of Law, and that screws with the economy in a number of ways. As you can see in the news, investors are running for the exits. Business loves stability, and Putin's dreams of empire do not engender stability.
User avatar
By Rancid
#15209075
Corruption.

Basically, you have elites like Putin that line their pockets and take care of themselves. Whatever tax money is generated is thrown into the military/security apparatus that helps assholes like Putin keep his power. Doesn't leave much else for actual people. This corruption means, that the only development that happens is whatever enriches Putin and his cronies. This means regular Russians are left out in the cold. Those regular Russian then themselves resort to corrupted practices to survive (for example, local corrupt police, scams, etc.)

Very simple really. This is the bullshit some morons on pofo support. This is also what MAGA morons want for the US apparently (see trump's corrupted attempts to overthrow an election).
Last edited by Rancid on 27 Jan 2022 15:12, edited 1 time in total.
#15209076
Germany 3.806 trillion USD (2020)

United Kingdom 2.708 trillion USD (2020)

France 2.603 trillion USD (2020)

Italy 1.886 trillion USD (2020)

Canada 1.643 trillion USD (2020)

Russia 1.483 trillion USD (2020)

Australia 1.331 trillion USD‌ (2020)

Spain 1.281 trillion USD (2020)

Poland 594.2 billion USD (2020)

Austria 429 billion USD‌ (2020)

Denmark 355.2 billion USD (2020)

Portugal 231.3 billion USD (2020)

Russia was dirt poor like Poland after the collapse of the Soviet Union. But the Russian economy grew exponentially afterwards and its GDP peaked at 2.3 trillion USD in 2013. Despite ongoing economic sanctions, Russian GDP is growing by 3%-4% in recent years, ranking slightly below Italy and Canada but above Australia. Italy is the tenth-largest exporter in the world, with $632 billion exported in 2019 (machinery, vehicles, pharmaceuticals, furniture, food and clothing.)

Poverty within Russian is difficult to measure on a blanketed scale. Russia is divided into 85 official regions, each experiencing poverty a little bit differently. For instance, the administration division surrounding the two most populous Russian cities, Moscow and St. Petersburg, have very high living standards compared to some of the less prosperous regions. According to a 2017 report by the Russian Finance Ministry, only 10 out of Russia’s 85 regions are economically stable. The other 75 rely heavily on direct federal subsidies.

https://www.borgenmagazine.com/poverty-in-russia/
Last edited by ThirdTerm on 27 Jan 2022 18:31, edited 4 times in total.
#15209079
Rancid said corruption, I will say mindset.

According to some of my relatives, they believe Russians are not that productive to begin with.

Seeing how they rely on the primary industry, their manufacturing and beyond probably don't take off so well.

China is also rampantly corrupt but their relatively industrious mindset make them better off than Russia, and the West now needs to put together more unity and assert their openness / freedom / respect of human rights in order to tear in.
By late
#15209086
Patrickov wrote:
Rancid said corruption, I will say mindset.

According to some of my relatives, they believe Russians are not that productive to begin with.

Seeing how they rely on the primary industry, their manufacturing and beyond probably don't take off so well.

China is also rampantly corrupt but their relatively industrious mindset make them better off than Russia, and the West now needs to put together more unity and assert their openness / freedom / respect of human rights in order to tear in.



The 2 things are intimately related.

You really can't compare Russia and China, where it counts, they are different and almost polar opposites.

Putin undermined what little Rule of Law they had. A capitalist economy depends on Rule of Law, you simply aren't going to invest heavily if your investment isn't protected by contract law (and other legal stuff).

After the USSR fell, the West should have done something like the Marshall Plan. We did provide help, we should have done ten times as much, at a bare minimum. Bush 1 proposed that, but he couldn't get his fellow Republicans to do much.
#15209096
Scamp wrote:Russia's GDP is less than Italy. What are they doing wrong?
Is communism or socialism to blame? Or, are they just retards?
Enlighten me.

Russia is classified as a developing country. Like all other developing countries, they copy-paste the West's shit liberal economic policies and result is terrible in developing countries.

Nations fall as they leave libertarian/conservative economic approach. It is not only Russia gets poor but also West's itself gets poorer each day. What about inflation in America?
User avatar
By Rancid
#15209097
Istanbuller wrote:Russia is classified as a developing country. Like all other developing countries, they copy-paste the West's shit liberal economic policies and result is terrible in developing countries.

Nations fall as they leave libetraian/conservative economic approach. It is not only Russia gets poor but also West's itself gets poorer each day. What about inflation in America?


:?:
By late
#15209099
Istanbuller wrote:
Russia is classified as a developing country.

Like all other developing countries, they copy-paste the West's shit liberal economic policies and result is terrible in developing countries.

Nations fall as they leave libertarian/conservative economic approach.

It is not only Russia gets poor but also West's itself gets poorer each day.

What about inflation in America?



Yes, but it's not doing much development.

No they don't, not at all.

They can fall or rise, depends a lot on whether we try to screw them over.

That's oversimplified, sorry. Russia is in a bad way. So is America, but not nearly as bad.

We have inflation, but we should be able to control it. Depends a lot on how the global economy recovers, or doesn't recover. You should know that rich people don't like inflation, but it doesn't bother most people much, unless it gets out of control. The point is, a lot of media is more afraid of it than recession because that's what their rich owners want to hear.

A lot of the trouble we are having looks like inflation, but it's really our lousy policies that are the problem. Take housing, zoning restricts supply, because that's what the rich want. It forces prices up.

What he have now is rich guys buying up massive amounts of housing and then renting it at exorbitant prices. They are also lousy landlords... So that looks like inflation, but it's really exploitation.
#15209128
Russia is not that poor.

Problem is that smart people are leaving because of the lack of opportunities and political oppression.

Of course Putin and co. probably even welcome it.
#15209141
ThirdTerm wrote:Germany 3.806 trillion USD (2020)

United Kingdom 2.708 trillion USD (2020)

France 2.603 trillion USD (2020)

Italy 1.886 trillion USD (2020)

Canada 1.643 trillion USD (2020)

Russia 1.483 trillion USD (2020)

Australia 1.331 trillion USD‌ (2020)

Spain 1.281 trillion USD (2020)

Poland 594.2 billion USD (2020)

Austria 429 billion USD‌ (2020)

Denmark 355.2 billion USD (2020)

Portugal 231.3 billion USD (2020)

Russia was dirt poor like Poland after the collapse of the Soviet Union. But the Russian economy grew exponentially afterwards and its GDP peaked at 2.3 trillion USD in 2013. Despite ongoing economic sanctions, Russian GDP is growing by 3%-4% in recent years, ranking slightly below Italy and Canada but above Australia. Italy is the tenth-largest exporter in the world, with $632 billion exported in 2019 (machinery, vehicles, pharmaceuticals, furniture, food and clothing.)

Per capita Russia is one of the poorest in Europe.
#15209174
late wrote:You really can't compare Russia and China, where it counts, they are different and almost polar opposites.

Putin undermined what little Rule of Law they had. A capitalist economy depends on Rule of Law, you simply aren't going to invest heavily if your investment isn't protected by contract law (and other legal stuff).


For your information, China has little if any regard of Rule of Law, but they are fucking keen of Rule by Law. See what's happening in Hong Kong as an example.


late wrote:After the USSR fell, the West should have done something like the Marshall Plan. We did provide help, we should have done ten times as much, at a bare minimum. Bush 1 proposed that, but he couldn't get his fellow Republicans to do much.


More importantly, Bush Senior was voted out the very next year.
By late
#15209213
Patrickov wrote:


For your information, China has little if any regard of Rule of Law, but they are fucking keen of Rule by Law. See what's happening in Hong Kong as an example.





I was talking about law as it applies to business. Or to put it another way, China is not as corrupt as Russia.
#15209231
late wrote:I was talking about law as it applies to business. Or to put it another way, China is not as corrupt as Russia.


As I said, it is more about mindset. Chinese are more receptive to making big money with others. They are totally ok to have their business partners being corrupt with them. Doesn't make them any cleaner or more respectful to contracts though, as you may have heard in the various IR or technological knowledge infringement issues.
By late
#15209238
Patrickov wrote:
As I said, it is more about mindset.

Doesn't make them any cleaner or more respectful to contracts though, as you may have heard in the various IR or technological knowledge infringement issues.



It's also about having a business friendly climate.

Baloney. They are a world apart from Russia, and they are reforming in this regard. They recently set up an IP court, and it's been getting praise.
#15209240
late wrote:Baloney. They are a world apart from Russia, and they are reforming in this regard. They recently set up an IP court, and it's been getting praise.


My advice is, don't take a country keen on oppression so seriously, and to get involved one is to take their risks.
By late
#15209246
Patrickov wrote:
My advice is, don't take a country keen on oppression so seriously, and to get involved one is to take their risks.



Facts are stubborn things.

What you should have said is that Xi has done a number of things that are making the business climate a lot less friendly.
#15209250
late wrote:What you should have said is that Xi has done a number of things that are making the business climate a lot less friendly.


Good to hear that you know the truth yourself.
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