Waiting for Starmer - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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By Rich
#15257300
I thought this might make a better title for the current generic British thread. Does anyone demur? So it seem that there is an expectation that

1 Rishi Sunak will remain Prime Minister until the next General Election.
2 The government will go the full term or close to it. No opportunities will arise for a favourable early election.
3 Keir Starmer will be our next Prime Minister after the election
4 He will win an overall majority and will not rule as a part of a coalition
5 He will be Prime minister for at least one full term. His majority will comfortably cover any by-election losses. Labour rarely throw out their leaders.

I'm not saying that all this is certain, just that this is the default expectation. If any of it doesn't happen it will to some extent be an upset.

Anyway I'm not one of Starmer's greatest fans to put it mildly but this, Labour leader calls for charitable status to end for private schools is a good policy.
Last edited by Rich on 30 Nov 2022 19:56, edited 2 times in total.
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By noemon
#15257304
From one act of self-harm to another the British are leading the world in masochism.

1) Charities and non-profits are a huge scam in this country.
2) [Private] Schools are actually the only non-profits validly so. As any profits made go to bursaries & scholarships. Changing their status will also remove the bursaries & scholarships they offer as well as punish the less well-to-do and make the schools even more elitist.
3) VAT for education, now. Wow. Nice one Starmer.

VAT was introduced in the 1970's in France as a luxury tax. It found its way everywhere in Europe and on almost everything(including energy) except for the basic commodities and now wants to intrude in elementary and secondary education.
By Patrickov
#15257313
noemon wrote:VAT was introduced in the 1970's in France as a luxury tax. It found its way everywhere in Europe and on almost everything(including energy) except for the basic commodities and now wants to intrude in elementary and secondary education.


Not just Europe, I am afraid. Both Japan and China are keen on imposing VAT on whatever they can tax as well.

Hong Kong has been the only place I know which doesn't do VAT.
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By noemon
#15257337
And the US has no VAT, though some states do sales tax but limited in scope and low.
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By ingliz
#15257359
noemon wrote:bursaries & scholarships

Old numbers but the best I could find, and unsurprisingly private schools are not that charitable.

In 2015, Eton made £62m and spent £5.7m funding bursaries and scholarships.


:lol:
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By noemon
#15257361
ingliz wrote:Old numbers but the best I could find, and unsurprisingly private schools are not that charitable.

In 2015, Eton made £62m and spent £5.7m funding bursaries and scholarships.

:lol:


I do not understand why you play this ridiculous game of failing to provide context constantly. Perma trolling mode.

I googled it: https://www.civilsociety.co.uk/news/eto ... -5-7m.html

Eton made 3.2 million profit for that year and paid 5.6 million in bursaries and scholarships. It paid more than it made.
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By ingliz
#15257369
@noemon

In context

It has £320 million in the bank, and the £3.2 million was profit after it had paid the bursaries & scholarships.


:lol:
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By noemon
#15257374
ingliz wrote:It has £320 million in the bank, and the £3.2 million was profit after it had paid the bursaries & scholarships.


320 million for a property portfolio of schools and premises is not big at all.

The context is that it paid more to charitable causes than it kept as reserves for that fiscal year and that is an achievement indeed. The article you are misquoting is celebrating said achievement that your politics of envy are trying to cynically vilify.

The school is very well run and its charitable causes are actual and tangible quite unlike the usual sort of charities out there.

If anybody deserves non-profit status as an entity it is the schools first and foremost.
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By ingliz
#15257401
noemon wrote:If anybody deserves

They deserve to be absorbed by the state sector and turned into non-fee-paying comprehensives open to all children in the local catchment areas.
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By JohnRawls
#15257410
ingliz wrote:They deserve to be absorbed by the state sector and turned into non-fee-paying comprehensives open to all children in the local catchment areas.


Why? Not all schools have to be public, this is especially the case if they can provide top of the line education. Don't break what is not broken.
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By ingliz
#15257420
JohnRawls wrote:Not all schools have to be public

Private schools, called Public Schools in the UK, are only open to the rich (£45,000 p.a. in fees) save for a few poor boy scholarships. And those scholarships are only given so they can keep their perks as charitable institutions. The government giving £6 million to a school that charges £45,000 in fees per is ridiculous.

Let the rich bastards pay for their own old boys' clubs.


:)
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By noemon
#15257421
^That is false nonsense.

Private schools in elementary and secondary education charge 12-25k per year for fees, the average in Cambridge being around 18k per year.

Those that board in the schools, pay 30-50k as their children live, eat and do all their activities in school.
By Rich
#15257426
Just to clarify for people not intimate with British culture. Traditionally in Britain, "Public schools" and "Private Schools are non state. Yes it is confusing. The top non State schools in Britain are "Public schools". Eton, Harrow, Winchester. I met a Winchester lad one time, he was the son of one of Uganda's, less remembered Presidents. Anyway the following trailer, for "Another Country" about the school life of the young Soviet Spy Guy Burgess, gives a good idea of what images the term "Public School" conjurors up for a Brit. Its probably the complete opposite of what the term conjures up for an American.

By Rich
#15258231
So this article claims The Conservatives are Fighting a Losing Battle on Private School Tax Exemptions

I am very happy to be with main stream opinion on this, although I would like to see it combined with bringing back the Grammar schools. Smart kids from less privileged backgrounds should have the opportunity to go to good schools and fulfil their potential without having to beg for charity from rich people. This policy will mean the likes of Diane Abbot will have to pay more to escape the second class school system that leftie vandals have created, but so be it.

I have nothing against people spending their wealth on private education or private health care, however health and education are becoming such a big part of the economy that its vital we raise taxes on them where we can.
By Rich
#15260985
We face 3 choices on Brexit,

1 To continue with Brexit, to continue separating ourselves from Europe and further damage British prosperity.
2 to halt Brexit
3 To abandon Brexit to start to reverse Brexit, by increasing regulatory alignment with and cutting the terrible costs this is inflicting on British business.

Keir Starmer has nailed his colours to the mast. He wants to continue with Brexit. He says he can make Brexit work for Britain. He is a narcissistic liar. He calculates that by continuing with Brexit he can make it work for his political career.

Lisa Nandy warns Labour voters any idea of reversing Brexit is a 'fantasy'

No Lisa you would be the fantasist if you actually believed this drivel. But I don't believe you're that stupid. No you're willing to commit untold damage on the British people in order to get Keir Starmer into Number 10.
#15261754
Rich wrote:We face 3 choices on Brexit,

1 To continue with Brexit, to continue separating ourselves from Europe and further damage British prosperity.
2 to halt Brexit
3 To abandon Brexit to start to reverse Brexit, by increasing regulatory alignment with and cutting the terrible costs this is inflicting on British business.

Keir Starmer has nailed his colours to the mast. He wants to continue with Brexit. He says he can make Brexit work for Britain. He is a narcissistic liar. He calculates that by continuing with Brexit he can make it work for his political career.

Lisa Nandy warns Labour voters any idea of reversing Brexit is a 'fantasy'

No Lisa you would be the fantasist if you actually believed this drivel. But I don't believe you're that stupid. No you're willing to commit untold damage on the British people in order to get Keir Starmer into Number 10.

All mainstream politicians think in this way, as you well know @Rich. Backing Brexit got Boris into Number 10, despite the fact that he didn’t believe in it, didn’t think the Yes vote would win the referendum, and didn’t even want it to win. Boris was putting his own political career ahead of the best interests of the entire nation. And he would have been a fool not to. Only losers put their nation’s interests ahead of their own, and Boris was a winner. And Keir Starmer will be a winner too.
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By noemon
#15262144
Starmer also took a clear position on the NHS more logical and strict than the conservative leaf on the wind.
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By vinnydell
#15264162
VAT was first introduced, in Ivory Coast, by the French Government, in 1954.
It was then extended to the rest of France and Germany, and the European Coal and Steel Community and then the EEC.

As for Starmer, a less suitable leader of the Labour party I haven't seen since Kinnock.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like the Tories either, but jeez. Starmer single handedly lost Labour the last election with his remoaning.
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