[Rugoz]

I had heard a story, though, that the guys who are charged specifically with deserting eventually get put on the frontlines. They go to a military prison for some time, and then they are brought out to a place like Bakhmut and told that they need to hold the line and that no retreat will be facilitated.

Of course, this is from a Ukrainian POW who was realying the story while captive, so it could be a lie... But it is logical if it is happening.

Maybe it is logical to Russians who are known to send prisoners to the front and shoot them if they retreat .

Given they also excel at systematic torture, I'm sure they can motivate a Ukrainian POW to tell a good story

[Verv]

Maybe it is logical to Russians who are known to send prisoners to the front and shoot them if they retreat .

Given they also excel at systematic torture, I'm sure they can motivate a Ukrainian POW to tell a good story

For the first point... Yeah I would not be surprised if both Russians and Ukrainians force people to fight and shoot people who are deserting the front.

In regards to the second point... I think they'd be more likely to bribe them with privileges or prioritization for POW exchange or some other thing. Perhaps even manipulate them - if you do not provide us a good testimony, it can impact whether or not you are charged or investigated with this (fictional) war crime.

It doesn't make sense to torture POWs when there are exchanges happening quite frequently, and any evidence or lots of corroboration with torture would get out. Like I have heard people on both sides are often allowed daily calls to their families... It is, after all, the era where I could call you up right now and chat for basically nothing over a coffeehouse WiFi.

I emphasize this because I do not think that people are really evil or wild or anything as people say... I mean, YES, evil things do happen, and perhaps even some of these high up world leaders are black-hearted criminals... But even if for just keeping up the sake of appearances and facilitating their own profits, they are going to appear as approachable, kind people.

These are not like... LORD SAURON here inflicting evil for fun.

Putin may be a very bad guy but he's not like some anime villain and his henchmen aren't universally sadists.

[litwin]

What? I see @litwin's posts and according to him, Ukraine won the war a year ago! :?:

THAT'S true, we are not fighting a war anymore, we are decolonizing Moscow - Mongol empire

[Rich]

THAT'S true, we are not fighting a war anymore, we are decolonizing Moscow - Mongol empire

So Ukrainian troops are currently running from Avdiikva. now maybe this all part of some cunning plan to decolonise the Asiatic Mongol sub humans. Or maybe, just maybe this attempt is coming unstuck like your previous attempt to decolonise the Asiatic Mongol sub humans back in the nineteen forties. Perhaps even Der treue Syrskyi can no longer be trusted to obey the leader's stand-fast order.

[Rugoz]

For the first point... Yeah I would not be surprised if both Russians and Ukrainians force people to fight and shoot people who are deserting the front.

In regards to the second point... I think they'd be more likely to bribe them with privileges or prioritization for POW exchange or some other thing. Perhaps even manipulate them - if you do not provide us a good testimony, it can impact whether or not you are charged or investigated with this (fictional) war crime.

It doesn't make sense to torture POWs when there are exchanges happening quite frequently, and any evidence or lots of corroboration with torture would get out. Like I have heard people on both sides are often allowed daily calls to their families... It is, after all, the era where I could call you up right now and chat for basically nothing over a coffeehouse WiFi.

I emphasize this because I do not think that people are really evil or wild or anything as people say... I mean, YES, evil things do happen, and perhaps even some of these high up world leaders are black-hearted criminals... But even if for just keeping up the sake of appearances and facilitating their own profits, they are going to appear as approachable, kind people.

These are not like... LORD SAURON here inflicting evil for fun.

Putin may be a very bad guy but he's not like some anime villain and his henchmen aren't universally sadists.

False equivalence.

Russia is recruiting convicts as soldiers (i.e. cannon fodder). Russia doesn't deny this. I don't know if the Russian military shoots them if they retreat, but Wagner did. Wagner also didn't take POWs. Wagner may be history, but Russian PMCs aren't. They don't exist on the Ukrainian side, to my knowledge.

As for systematic torture:

UN Commission of Inquiry on Ukraine finds continued systematic and widespread use of torture and indiscriminate attacks harming civilians

There is continuous evidence that Russian armed forces are committing war crimes in Ukraine, including unlawful attacks with explosive weapons, attacks harming civilians, torture, sexual and gender-based violence, and attacks on energy infrastructure

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases ... spread-use

As for the mistreatment of POWs. Both sides are known to do it. But at least Ukraine allows the UN access to internment camps:

https://ukraine.un.org/en/224744-un-hum ... 20shocking.

[KurtFF8]

@Verv When they don't like it, they claim it's "state sponsored". There is nothing wrong with Candace Owens and she tends to be far more reliable than 95% of the people out there.

Are you denying that Radio Free Europe is state sponsored?

Yeah, and I would think a lot of people on the left would start to respect her more because she stood up to Ben Shapiro and took a position critical of Israel during this whole October 7th fiasco.

She's a reactionary and is hostile to the very basis of working class power. I'm not sure why anyone on the Left would ever respect her point of view.

breaking ranks with a lot of conservatives on this.

Conservatives are a bit of a mess on the question of Ukraine actually. They like to troll the Democrats about their support for Russia, but ultimately they will never truly move away from the position of being warmongers and supporting the projection of US power abroad. The "isolationalism" of people like Trump is pure fantasy and doesn't actually exist.

[Tainari88]

Are you denying that Radio Free Europe is state sponsored?



She's a reactionary and is hostile to the very basis of working class power. I'm not sure why anyone on the Left would ever respect her point of view.



Conservatives are a bit of a mess on the question of Ukraine actually. They like to troll the Democrats about their support for Russia, but ultimately they will never truly move away from the position of being warmongers and supporting the projection of US power abroad. The "isolationalism" of people like Trump is pure fantasy and doesn't actually exist.

I have no idea about Radio Free Europe. Never heard of it before. I hope you explain it to me?

I 100% agree with you about Candace Owens.

I agree again 100% about the Conservatives in the USA and Trump projecting power. He is not an isolationist. He is just a fascist who will or might pull a trigger or press a button to be in control. So many dismiss him as not being into coups of state. He is serious about retaining power. The problem is that the ones who are always saying, he is a disruptor and he is going to put liberals in their place. They are authoritarians who want a conservative freaky dictatorship. They are voting for that. I find it laughable that some Democrats think that the people in power behind the scenes will not ignore Trump or contain him if it goes against their interests. They will do that to the Democratic candidate if they also win. All those power people cover their asses in both parties. If you have not noticed that by now? You are not paying attention to US politics.

[KurtFF8]

I have no idea about Radio Free Europe. Never heard of it before. I hope you explain it to me?

I linked to the wiki article about it above. It's literally a media outlet funded and produced by the government of the United States. It was created during the Cold War to create instability within socialist countries in Europe.

[Tainari88]

I linked to the wiki article about it above. It's literally a media outlet funded and produced by the government of the United States. It was created during the Cold War to create instability within socialist countries in Europe.

Then people in the States wonder why so many people want to come to the USA and live in the 50 states? Because of the damn propaganda saying how they are better. Simply the best. Better than all the rest. Better than anyone.

The change is that many governments and nations in other places are creating their own content and soon it is going to be everywhere and the massive differences in perspectives and realities are going to clash. It is important for freedom of information and not have everything controlled by these propagandists who are incredibly wealthy and incredibly biased and partisan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Fre ... io_Liberty

[late]

Then people in the States wonder why so many people want to come to the USA and live in the 50 states? Because of the damn propaganda saying how they are better. Simply the best. Better than all the rest. Better than anyone.

The change is that many governments and nations in other places are creating their own content and soon it is going to be everywhere and the massive differences in perspectives and realities are going to clash. It is important for freedom of information and not have everything controlled by these propagandists who are incredibly wealthy and incredibly biased and partisan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Fre ... io_Liberty

Kruschev was in the States, and he insisted on seeing 'the real America'. So he had the whole cavalcade stop at a supermarket he picked at random. He was flabbergasted. Under the Soviet system getting a loaf of bread usually meant showing up at the right time and waiting in line. Having said that, their bread was prob better than ours. I love a good Russian pumpernickel. But the variety and abundance was something he had never seen. Back in the 70s, I used to go to a gourmet market. The proprietor was this really cool guy. Back then there was little fruit to be had in winter. Very little.. He had fruit flown in from across the globe, including unusual varieties that wouldn't show up in the grocery stores for a couple decades. He also sold the worlds best coffee, at about $8 a pound. The same thing costs 20 times as much now (or more).

We do propaganda, there is no denying that.

But, for all our flaws, we do pretty good, and we will do better. At least that's the hope, and the promise of "a more perfect Union".

[Tainari88]

Kruschev was in the States, and he insisted on seeing 'the real America'. So he had the whole cavalcade stop at a supermarket he picked at random. He was flabbergasted. Under the Soviet system getting a loaf of bread usually meant showing up at the right time and waiting in line. Having said that, their bread was prob better than ours. I love a good Russian pumpernickel. But the variety and abundance was something he had never seen. Back in the 70s, I used to go to a gourmet market. The proprietor was this really cool guy. Back then there was little fruit to be had in winter. Very little.. He had fruit flown in from across the globe, including unusual varieties that wouldn't show up in the grocery stores for a couple decades. He also sold the worlds best coffee, at about $8 a pound. The same thing costs 20 times as much now (or more).

We do propaganda, there is no denying that.

But, for all our flaws, we do pretty good, and we will do better. At least that's the hope, and the promise of "a more perfect Union".

How many people who have fifty different types of everything have the DOUGH to buy the variety Late? It is not about what is available? It is about what the average person can afford to get on a budget.

I live in Mexico. I walk into a grocery store and there is variety galore here. What do the Mexicans complain about the most? The price is too expensive for their measly salaries. They do not give a shit about the vast majority of the varieties. What they also complain about are the super high interest rates on the credit cards here. And the ripoffs. So they created a consumer watch organization in the Mexican government that monitors and sanctions fraudulent ads, fraud type promotions and fake products and bad safety standards. PROFECO it is called.

Most of the world is already capitalist in the Third World. The issue for us (Latin America, African continent, and many parts of underdeveloped Asian nations including INDIA) is about affordability and quality.

Who gives a damn about how great the variations are to someone living in a food desert in the USA where the only available in walking distance food is a bunch of junk food from the Dollar Store and Seven-Eleven convenience stores and shit that makes you ill?

Look at these ex-pats from the USA talking about living abroad for 12 years and seeing what is going on in the USA markets and the BULLSHIT they peddle to people there twenty for seven.

The reality is the message from the far left appeals to the vast majority of working people. The bullshit coming from the Right and the rich in the developed nations is a nonstarter if you can never get out of the economic hole. Again, meeting the basic needs of the majority or all this wondrous consumerism is just a mockery and a lack of realism for all the ones living where I am at.

The US is 5% of the planet. Do enough for the 95% folks. Not the tiny ones doing well. That is not transforming the world. It is spreading the misery.

[Skynet]

Ukraine lost 400'000 men, Russia 40'000 according a former military officer interviewed by Tucker Carlson.

According him Russia tries to save lives of its soldiers, and they are very well in combined arms combat (this you can not learn in 6 Months, rather in 6 Years).

Also we do not see tankbattles because the US and Russian satelites spot immidietly a moving tank and destroy it.

Therefore we see WW1 style battles.

[late]

Ukraine lost 400'000 men, Russia 40'000 according a former military officer interviewed by Tucker Carlson.

According him Russia tries to save lives of its soldiers, and they are very well in combined arms combat (this you can not learn in 6 Months, rather in 6 Years).

Also we do not see tank battles because the US and Russian satellites spot immediately a moving tank and destroy it.

Therefore we see WW1 style battles.

Tucker Carlson?

Is that supposed to be a joke?

"A declassified U.S. intelligence report assessed that the Ukraine war has cost Russia 315,000 dead and injured troops, or nearly 90% of the personnel it had when the conflict began, a source familiar with the intelligence said on Tuesday.

Kyiv treats its losses as a state secret and officials say disclosing the figure could harm its war effort. A New York Times report in August cited U.S. officials as putting the Ukrainian death toll at close to 70,000."
https://www.reuters.com/world/us-intelligence-assesses-ukraine-war-has-cost-russia-315000-casualties-source-2023-12-12/

You'd be safer assuming anything coming from Tucker Carlson is wrong, until proven otherwise..

Even if one assumes those numbers have been massaged, it's no secret that Russia has been using human wave tactics. That always results in a lot of dead.

[Skynet]

@late The first victim of war is the truth. The massmedia you can not trust.

[late]

@late The first victim of war is the truth. The massmedia you can not trust.

Tucker Carlson sells crap, you bring that shit here, and then whine about mass media??

Enjoy your fantasy world.

[Rich]

Robotyne

This was the jewel in the crown from the Bidenschalacht. Now admittedly Robotyne is not quite Sevastopol. Apparently there's some technicalites which I don't quite understand, which make it difficult to use as a major Naval Base. Consequently I don't think that Robtyne will be a major part of Biden's reelection campaign, he won't be using it as justification for the more than $100 billion dollars that Biden has given to Zelensky.

That's assuming that the Ukrainians still hold the jewel and its possible they may lose it. This would be a massive humiliation for Zelensky and his western liberal cheer leaders. Still even the loss of Robtyne would not mean the war is going really badly. At this rate Russia would take an immensely long time to get anywhere.

[late]

Robotyne

This was the jewel in the crown from the Bidenschalacht. Now admittedly Robotyne is not quite Sevastopol. Apparently there's some technicalites which I don't quite understand, which make it difficult to use as a major Naval Base. Consequently I don't think that Robtyne will be a major part of Biden's reelection campaign, he won't be using it as justification for the more than $100 billion dollars that Biden has given to Zelensky.

That's assuming that the Ukrainians still hold the jewel and its possible they may lose it. This would be a massive humiliation for Zelensky and his western liberal cheer leaders. Still even the loss of Robtyne would not mean the war is going really badly. At this rate Russia would take an immensely long time to get anywhere.

Robotyne is a long ways from the ocean, maybe 50 miles?

Biden doesn't get specific, when he's talking about Ukraine, he talks about supporting the people and democracy. So I don't see where your "crown" comment makes any sense.

On the map, Robotyne doesn't look important. What would be important is if the good guys get pushed back across the river.

[Verv]

Are you denying that Radio Free Europe is state sponsored?

No.

She's a reactionary and is hostile to the very basis of working class power. I'm not sure why anyone on the Left would ever respect her point of view.

But why deny that she's right on this? Why act like she's poison to the touch?

You are just being petty, and now you are saying, dontcha know, all us on the Left be petty & sad like that.

Not persuasive, or true.

Conservatives are a bit of a mess on the question of Ukraine actually. They like to troll the Democrats about their support for Russia, but ultimately they will never truly move away from the position of being warmongers and supporting the projection of US power abroad. The "isolationalism" of people like Trump is pure fantasy and doesn't actually exist.

Well, yes, there are many who are very pro-Ukraine, and many who are pro-Russia if only from a civilizational clash perspective.

I also think Trump isolationism was very real... But there's no real point in talking about that because anyone can just ascribe malice and deception to him and half the people will believe it.

There are so many kneejerk reactions to Trump that it is pointless to talk about him with someone who doesn't show intellectual integrity.

[Verv]

This is just a wonderful criticism of what's happening throughout the Western world



For too long the elites have been able to exercise their will through proxy wars - it has killed tens of millions of people, and the entire premise of it has been that we are creating a better world.

You have to ignore calls that it is our duty to defend an ally or democracy abroad when that call is made by the same war machine that was eager to go into dozens of other places over the years, using the same excuses.

The only causes in the world that can actually reflect democratic principles are ones that are organized by the people themselves, not the CIA.

I promise you... Every single time you take any kind of action and a three-letter agency or an oligarch is involved, you are not actually doing the thing you set out to do.

[Skynet]

Russia is spending 40% of the GDP for the military, like under Stalin who made the country a super power.