[Puffer Fish]

(free article available here for limited time)
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/th ... fa8a1&ei=6

(website of the original article)
Things are going badly for Ukraine -- really badly, by Mia Jankowicz and Tom Porter, Business Insider, Feb 13, 2024


What a pointless war.

[Godstud]

What? I see @litwin's posts and according to him, Ukraine won the war a year ago!

[Rich]

Things are perhaps going poorly for Ukraine. They are certainly not going really badly. OK so I like the following guy. I think he's genuinely informative, although I wish he wouldn't shout us much, but look at the title of the video.

It was posted 6 days ago. The title has already been proved wrong. Its almost certainly going to be a matter of weeks, not days, certainly not hours.

The Liberal is a pathological liar and on of the big lies that the Liberal constantly pushes is that the First World War was a stalemate. It was not, not even close. Throughout the four and a half years there were huge movements on the fronts, even f the western front was static. Countries were entering the war, leaving the war and even reentering the war. The costly battles on the western front always took place in within the context of the wider war. In the 15 months Since the fall of Kherson the front has been incredibly static. There was no 15 month period like this in the First World War.

[Rugoz]

It's not going so bad.

Avdiivka is the biggest meatgrinder of the war so far with an estimated 30k Russian soldiers lost.

The Russian fleet has been forced out of the western black sea such that Ukraine could establish a shipping corridor.

[late]

The Liberal is a pathological liar and on of the big lies that the Liberal constantly pushes is that the First World War was a stalemate. It was not, not even close.

Yes, the fronts moved, and yes, it was a stalemate.

It wasn't until late in the war that a way was developed to break through enemy lines. When you combine modern weapons and trench warfare, the result was a meat grinder.

An army would gain a temporary advantage, and then get bogged down.

When I was a teen, I played 1914. The game had 2 manuals, one was over a hundred pages. Each move took an hour or more. We never actually finished a game.

There are interwar stories, like Testament of Youth, that revealed the devastation that war caused in those that survived.

That isn't lying, it's what we call history.

[Godstud]

Is it because Ukrainians are being violently conscripted to fight? There are more recent videos, as well.

As Ukraine seeks to replenish its depleted army, a divide grows among its civilians
https://www.npr.org/2024/01/31/12262516 ... n-military

[KurtFF8]

Imagine taking a Radio Free Europe and a Candice Owens video seriously.

[Godstud]

@KurtFF8 I'm sorry. Is it not on your list of acceptable propaganda? It's not pushing your narrative so it can't possibly be right, correct?

Imagine being such a bigot that you can't possibly conceive of something that goes against your views, even if there's evidence of it.

[KurtFF8]

You make it out to sound like I support Ukraine or something which is not true. I just think that posting what is literally a US propaganda outlet and a long discredited right wing figure are hardly ways to be taken seriously on this topic. @Godstud

[Godstud]

@KurtFF8 Everything's a propaganda outlet when you don't like what's being said, even if it's fact.

[Verv]

Is it because Ukrainians are being violently conscripted to fight? There are more recent videos, as well.

As Ukraine seeks to replenish its depleted army, a divide grows among its civilians
https://www.npr.org/2024/01/31/12262516 ... n-military

I think there was actually a video circulating of the man with Down's syndrome on the front a month or two ago, and so I guess this only verifies further that there are such cases..? It would seem to be too elaborate to be a hoax but I do not know, I am open to whatever people say about it...

You would think that, at this point, the UAF would make some kind of response regarding this.

[Godstud]

@Verv The Candace Owens video shows the man with Downs Syndrome, as well.

It's not an approved media source, so it's just propaganda. This is, of course, according to the Ukrainian Propaganda Ministry, run by @KurtFF8 and @litwin.

[Rugoz]

I think there was actually a video circulating of the man with Down's syndrome on the front a month or two ago, and so I guess this only verifies further that there are such cases..? It would seem to be too elaborate to be a hoax but I do not know, I am open to whatever people say about it...

You would think that, at this point, the UAF would make some kind of response regarding this.

Apart from the Down's syndrome man nonsense, obviously it happens. It's conscription. It's not a free choice for most people. I imagine few will resist openly, and they'll probably go to jail instead of the front.

[Godstud]

@Rugoz There is little difference between what Ukraine does and what Russia does. It's conscription. It's a press gang.

[Rugoz]

@Rugoz There is little difference between what Ukraine does and what Russia does. It's conscription. It's a press gang.

I would say generally speaking morale in the Ukrainian military is much higher, in the sense that soldiers fight to defend their homeland and not because they are being paid or forced to. But in the end it is still conscription, and it would look the same in any country fighting a war of consequence.

[KurtFF8]

@KurtFF8 Everything's a propaganda outlet when you don't like what's being said, even if it's fact.

What I'm saying is that one of the two sources you posted is literally a state sponsored propaganda outlet and the other is a discredited right wing figure.

One can oppose the West's proxy war against Russia while also not promoting discredited nonsensical sources like the two you've promoted here.

The way you're responding here is to conflate my critique of your sourcing and the point you're trying to make by posting the sources. So let's be clear: I do not support the West's support for Ukraine in this conflict.

[Verv]

Apart from the Down's syndrome man nonsense, obviously it happens. It's conscription. It's not a free choice for most people. I imagine few will resist openly, and they'll probably go to jail instead of the front.

I had heard a story, though, that the guys who are charged specifically with deserting eventually get put on the frontlines. They go to a military prison for some time, and then they are brought out to a place like Bakhmut and told that they need to hold the line and that no retreat will be facilitated.

Of course, this is from a Ukrainian POW who was realying the story while captive, so it could be a lie... But it is logical if it is happening.

If you have a choice between sitting in a jail cell for some time and not facing death, or going out and facing death... the deserter is not truly negatively impacted for deserting. It almost has to be a situation where he is forced to the front in some capacity.

Which is why it's still the case that deserters can be punished with death in US military justice.

[Verv]

What I'm saying is that one of the two sources you posted is literally a state sponsored propaganda outlet and the other is a discredited right wing figure.

One can oppose the West's proxy war against Russia while also not promoting discredited nonsensical sources like the two you've promoted here.

The way you're responding here is to conflate my critique of your sourcing and the point you're trying to make by posting the sources. So let's be clear: I do not support the West's support for Ukraine in this conflict.

You seem to have lost the plot here, Kurt...

The Candace Owens link shows raw footage - the sort of footage that is seen on Twitter and Telegram channels the world over. The fact that she shares it is a credit to her, and the fact that it is not commonly shown by major media further shows how unreliable Western sources are...

Obviously, Russian or various other sources can be completely biased, but at this point, the Ghost of Kyiv touting MSM should be treated quite similar to how RT is treated.

So what is a "good source?!"

Obviously, there's guys like Glenn Greenwald that provide in-depth analysis and seem to provide some pretty objective takes on the given information while cautioning against speculating too much... but there's no point in ennumerating all the individual journalists that we think do a good job...

It's just so much easier to stop a bullshit game of "Oh Candace is DISCREDITED, Russian sauce bad..! Why do this?! Don't you know you can argue agaisnt empire with only GOOD SAUCES?!"

It's borderline concern trolling and it's just so much easier to say "Oh wow, appears Candy Ownes is right here..."

[Godstud]

@Verv When they don't like it, they claim it's "state sponsored". There is nothing wrong with Candace Owens and she tends to be far more reliable than 95% of the people out there.

[Verv]

@Verv When they don't like it, they claim it's "state sponsored". There is nothing wrong with Candace Owens and she tends to be far more reliable than 95% of the people out there.

Yeah, and I would think a lot of people on the left would start to respect her more because she stood up to Ben Shapiro and took a position critical of Israel during this whole October 7th fiasco.

... Let's even say you are one of those Democrats fully in support of Israel or some such, it does have to give you a little respect for Owens being that she is breaking ranks with a lot of conservatives on this.