Is Liberalism final fruit of ''Enlightenment' - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

Modern liberalism. Civil rights and liberties, State responsibility to the people (welfare).
Forum rules: No one line posts please.
#15150095
question taken out of context from another thread, that think is good debatable opinion for this subforum ...

annatar1914 wrote:@Political InterestLiberalism is the lasting and final fruit of the ''Enlightenment'' and the modern era we live in, it's assumptions are almost universal, but something is lost in the humanity of it's partisans I believe. And this contributes to the personal and social pathologies of this era in particular above others.


maybe I am reading the point too literal. but must say liberalism per-se is not the ultimate nuseffect even less lasting goal of the enlightenment era, but its meer consequence of the hype for overthrowing the prevalent ethics in the Christian Realm back then ...

yes it could be said that in face of western feudalism liberalism became game changer that lead to capitalism, but for social or individual freedom this wasnt case - if we consider that the enlightenment era was politically managed by freemasonry [1] and if so then for sure they just manipulated with Lady Liberty and liberalism while they overthrow royalism, after what they actually imposed again modern direct (revolutions) or indirect (usury) colonialism! for them in question is just freedom to worship illuminism, in same time imposed on small door to every "citizen" as "freedom" iconography! must say we are all blinded by their secularism although even in their idealism as paradigm of freedom there is no room for liberalism, if we know that their ideal is enlightened superhumanity, thus determinism instead free will! actually through the Free Will we can say that Christianity promotes true liberal idealism, something that as concept is present in freemasonry just on level of religious propaganda ...

... think that in any field applied, after the industrial revolution, liberalism is not supported by equality but mostly imposed by elitism, its just fable for the masses, even worst they are mislead to believe that they are free but actually from every aspect they are modern slaves that exists just to polish particular society ...

... yet when it comes to overcoming moral boundaries on any level, then indeed we could say liberalism as misused is excuse for exploitation occupation decadence mammonism etc. simply its negative freedom from aspect of existential equilibrium in our civilization!

So in my opinion there is no positive liberalism in true sense, even less as such to be ultimate fruit of the enlightenment era that became real standard for common good, this proposition on other hand opens another question > is it possible to be found economical balance between socialism and capitalism and that to lead to some form of eaudaimonian centrism!?
#15150135
@Odiseizam ;

That is a good question I believe. As for Liberalism itself, I do happen to think that it itself really is a kind of deception and a myth, but for all it's bad effects I do not think that it's original basic impulses are bad ones, in fact are a kind of secularization of the social workings of Christianity in the world.
#15150144
@annatar1914 yes secularism somehow made the Catholic Church unburdened from its heretical bull "unam sanctum" [1][1] thus the Church in west again became rather charitable than taxative, but this is maybe more direct reflex of freemasonry overtaking catholic royalism by secular republicanism, there wasnt any choice or consent, although by itself vatican was to blame through its liberal approach in theologian universities that instigated the reforms of scholastics what little by little opened door to humanism and renaissance, while enlightenment neopaganism just took that liberty to maximum, yet in the end what offered is meaningless and cruel individualism that ended in world wars, even all the progress that followed was misused for piling wealth for new group of aristocrats while masses even today live as slaves on different levels and in different ways, maybe only fruit that was result of that era is deception, just observe how Nikola Tesla was ridiculed and sabotaged en-masse, why if freedom was the goal many would helped him to succeed in his experimenting, but instead he was at best silenced etc. etc.
#15150145
Odiseizam wrote:
nuseffect


yes it could be said that in face of western feudalism liberalism became game changer that lead to capitalism




When I google nuseffect, nothing comes up. Is it a real word?

The Renaissance happened before the Enlightenment, you have it the wrong way round... The word liberal, as it means today, didn't even exist in the feudal era.

Liberal notions evolved out of the Enlightenment, and they didn't happen overnight. What happened in America was part of that evolution. If anything, the declining power of the Church made the Enlightenment possible, and that was an indirect result of capitalism. What was going on was the development of a secular world the church could not dominate.
#15150147
Odiseizam wrote:h unburdened from its heretical bull "unam sanctum" [1][1] thus the Church in west again became rather charitable than taxative, but this is maybe more direct reflex of freemasonry overtaking catholic royalism by secular republicanism, there wasnt any choice or consent, although by itself vatican was to blame through its liberal approach in theologian universities that instigated the reforms of scholastics what little by little opened door to humanism and renaissance, while enlightenment neopaganism just took that liberty to maximum, yet in the end what offered is meaningless and cruel individualism that ended in world wars, even all the progress that followed was misused for piling wealth for new group of aristocrats while masses even today live as slaves on different levels and in different ways, maybe only fruit that was result of that era is deception, just observe how Nikola Tesla was ridiculed and sabotaged en-masse, why if freedom was the goal many would helped him to succeed in his experimenting, but instead he was at best silenced etc. etc.


I like the gist of what you 're trying to say. I think if you made shorter sentences it would help to structure your communication better.

I had the same problem as in my language, extremely long sentences are normal.
#15150157
@late I dont see where renaissance is pointed after enlightenment!?

also, logically as enlightenment Liberty motto liberalism indeed existed in the feudal times, altho still not as political but philosophical term [1] man You are literal till bone :)

@noemon hm, I can make my point shorter but that would be suitable for propaganda posts, like this I am examining possible connections to and relations with other isms or circumstances, in this case of liberalism as nonenlightenment fruit :)
#15150180
noemon wrote:I do not mean that you should make your post shorter. I mean your sentences. You should make shorter sentences and use the full stop. More often.


aha, then thats a matter of style :) its my habit, and I try to be less annoying as possible, but habit is habit and takes time to overcome it ...
VP Kamala Harris endorses riots...

Further, the Texas vision of energy for the last […]

Is USA a Plutocracy?

So if 'Trumpism' applies to Trump supporters, wh[…]

Trump on trial

I would LOVE to see laid out clearly in state cou[…]

Election 2024 Thread

3) If Trump or Trump like candidate runs then the[…]