[PBVBROOK]

The reaction by many leftists to the recent protests in Iran have followed an all too familiar pattern. Without a shred of supporting evidence, the protestors are immediately dismissed as rabble rousing US agents and not representative of the majority.

I am confused by this statement. Are you saying that the left is somehow aligned with the theocracy currently running Iran? That would be very odd indeed. Or are you saying that the left is accusing the protestors of being right wing? This is just the opposite of who they are.

I'm not sure I understand who these leftists are. Could you bring me up to speed on this?

[GandalfTheGrey]

Are you saying that the left is somehow aligned with the theocracy currently running Iran? That would be very odd indeed. Or are you saying that the left is accusing the protestors of being right wing?

I meant exactly what I said - the protestors are dismissed because they are assumed to not reflect the majority of the population - whether its purely a hissy fit from the out-of-touch elite from the "rich sections of Tehran", or a complete fabrication from biased western media interests.

I'm not sure I understand who these leftists are. Could you bring me up to speed on this?

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[HoniSoit]

The reaction by many leftists to the recent protests in Iran have followed an all too familiar pattern.

I see your point but I think the leftist reactions are in fact more varied with many criticising the mainstream Western media's reporting as well as condemning the brutality of Iranian regime.

[Ryan Owens]

I agree with Honi, as someone who opposes Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, I cannot stress enough that I feel there was foul play in the elections. That being said, as someone who has a moderate understanding of the Iranian government, I'm also well aware that the real power is vested within the Ayatollah. He is not a figurehead like the Queen or Governor General, he wields and exercises much power, at least as far as my understanding. That is why I'm not so absolutely enraged.

Furthermore, although I have a feeling of foul play, I cannot categorically cite any proof whatsoever. All I have seen are protests in Tehran but what of the rest of the country? Surely we are not to believe that the slightly liberal (Iranian standards, not my own), progressivist urban centre of Iran, Tehran, is representative of the remainder of the extremely conservative, sharia-supporting, rural regions of Iran. Besides that, I'm going to assume, perhaps erroneously, that Ahmadinejad's anti-Israeli and Islamic (to an extent) stances are supported by these rural area citizens. And while Ahmadinejad may have failed at gaining the support of Tehran, he may very well have won in the rest of the country.

That's why I feel that the biggest and most important piece to the News in Iran was not even covered by the major news stations. The most important information would have been that Tehran was the only place where riots were ongoing and that there were millions of people in the rest of the country who were quite content with the results- be they legitimate or not. Then again, since news stations are now more like entertainment stations and looking for rankings instead of informativity, could I have expected anything else? Probably not. I don't think images of the Iranian countryside with content and happy workers would have been so enjoyable to the regular American or Canadian (or wherever you're from) who just wanted to see some action.

Eitherway, I don't think this is a cut-and-paste, good-versus-evil, black-and-white issue. There is still so much we don't know and, chances are good, won't know so what is important now is that we pick up, move on and accept that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is the President of Iran. If that means we pressure our governments to by-pass Ahmadinejad and go straight to the Ayatollah, that's what it means; if that means our governments should stop doing business with Iran, that's what it means; but that also means shut the hell up about it and deal with it.

[GandalfTheGrey]

He is not a figurehead like the Queen or Governor General, he wields and exercises much power, at least as far as my understanding. That is why I'm not so absolutely enraged.

I think thats reason enough to feel more engraged. The Iranian people are only allowed a token amount of democracy anyway - but it seems the powers that be deny them even that pittance.

The most important information would have been that Tehran was the only place where riots were ongoing and that there were millions of people in the rest of the country who were quite content with the results- be they legitimate or not.

I hear you, but keep in mind Tehran is the capital and the most important city in Iran. Significant events that happen there are significant for the whole country and shouldn't be dismissed as "isolated". Also its important to remember that any foreign reporters in the country would all be confined to Tehran. So they couldn't be expected to cover events in areas they have no access to.

[Ryan Owens]

And if we can't expect them to cover the entire situation, we cannot be expected to draw conclusions from only a portion of the situation, that would be irresponsible.

[Far-Right Sage]

I never once expected to read one of Gandalf's posts and so strongly agree with the content, but there is a first time for everything.

There is a tendency among a large swath of Western leftists to automatically dismiss any criticism of those governments which stand opposed to the U.S. and the European Union. Despite the fact that the Iranian government is still largely theocratic and the antithesis of most left-wing political values and beliefs, they seem to see Ahmadinejad and the Mullahs as the "enemy of their enemy" (In this case, their respective domestic governments) and so they are granted an unwarranted free pass out of expediency and willful ignorance.

[redcarpet]

There is a tendency among a large swath of Western leftists to automatically dismiss any criticism of those governments which stand opposed to the U.S. and the European Union. Despite the fact that the Iranian government is still largely theocratic and the antithesis of most left-wing political values and beliefs, they seem to see Ahmadinejad and the Mullahs as the "enemy of their enemy" (In this case, their respective domestic governments) and so they are granted an unwarranted free pass out of expediency and willful ignorance

You sure, FRS? My beef is basic lying. Like the claim that Iran is pursuing a nuclear weapon. It isn't and there's no evidence.

[Far-Right Sage]

You sure, FRS? My beef is basic lying. Like the claim that Iran is pursuing a nuclear weapon. It isn't and there's no evidence

My personal opinion is that certain factions in the Iranian government are in favor of pursuing nuclear power for militaristic purposes and most likely a larger group support the traditional Iranian diplomatic policy and oppose such aims (supporting nuclear energy for peaceful means), but regardless, my issue is more the hypocrisy of leftists who support Iran's domestic policies (the oppression of Iranian women, homosexuals, and leftist groups such as the Tudeh Party), rather than its foreign policy. How can any self-proclaimed Marxist support a government which suppresses its own Communist party, for example? The government in Tehran which so many Communist teenagers make excuses for would have certainly been labeled reactionary by legitimate Marxists.

[redcarpet]

my issue is more the hypocrisy of leftists who support Iran's domestic policies (the oppression of Iranian women, homosexuals, and leftist groups such as the Tudeh Party), rather than its foreign policy. How can any self-proclaimed Marxist support a government which suppresses its own Communist party, for example? The government in Tehran which so many Communist teenagers make excuses for would have certainly been labeled reactionary by legitimate Marxists.

Lol, are you sure you're not exaggerating? Are you talking about people you've overheard or spoken to, or read about?

[grassroots1]

Yeah, who are you talking about? I certainly don't support Ahmadinejad's regime.

[Far-Right Sage]

Lol, are you sure you're not exaggerating? Are you talking about people you've overheard or spoken to, or read about?

Obviously this does not apply to all leftists, but from what I've heard from various posters over the years, and those I know in the non-virtual world, I get the strong impression that anyone who challenges U.S. dominance (Be it Ahmadinejad or Chavez) is championed as an anti-imperialist and their humanitarian violations overlooked.

[grassroots1]

You've been talking to some retarded leftists then.

Edit: Sorry to anyone who holds this view, I shouldn't have said retarded. I'm sure you'll come to your senses soon.

[Far-Right Sage]

This phenomenon is not as out of the ordinary as you seem to think.

Granted, I have not been frequenting the forums as much as of late, but a few months back when Iran was in the news almost daily, this was almost a staple in discussion with the young leftists here.

[Cheesecake_Marmalade]

This thread is a total piece of shit. Wow! Gandalf is a rightist now.

[Celtic Communism]

How can any self-proclaimed Marxist support a government which suppresses its own Communist party, for example? The government in Tehran which so many Communist teenagers make excuses for would have certainly been labeled reactionary by legitimate Marxists.

The Soviet Union and Warsaw Pact countries gave great support to Nasser even when he was suppressing and killing members of the Communist party there. The Soviet Union even considered joining the Tripartite Pact with the Axis Powers before Operation Barbarossa. China under Mao had virtually only ally in South America and that was Pinochet's Chile; Pinochet's government being one of the first nations to recognise the People's Republic of China over Taiwan, continuing Allende's maneuvers before the putsch. As for supporting Iran, Albania under Hoxha loudly supported the revolution and praised years afterwards Khomeini. The Soviet Union by the late 80s was co-operating with Iran, even planning to send an Iranian into space to Mir.

So, just who are these 'legitimate' Marxists?