[redhat]

But not the healthy people who get their bones crushed by cars. They wouldn't die "today" if it weren't for our toxic toys.

Just because they may not die in a car accident doesn't mean they won't die that same day. No one knows when or how their time is up.

[GodSpeed]

You make an interesting point here, GodSpeed.

If I didn't take that limousine 100 km (at full speed) to buy those aspirin, I could have died of that headache. That six-wheel Nazi-era limo actually may have saved my life.

Why are you making obviously ridiculous arguements?
The medical field would nothing compared to what it is today without cars.

[QatzelOk]

Why are you making obviously ridiculous arguements?
The medical field would nothing compared to what it is today without cars.

You mean those doctors would never have made it to Medical School if they didn't have cars to drive there? They'd have been stuck at home?

Or do you mean we all would have starved in suburbia if we didn't have minivans to go buy food?

Either way, I don't think you're really imagining a world without cars, where people live closer together and don't have to commute 50 km to work or to buy aspirin for the headache I'm slowly getting.

[GodSpeed]

No, I mean you'd never make it to the hospital when you had a heart attack or when the damn horse kicked you in the head. I mean there wouldn't be as many medicines and medical devices available because no one would be able to get to work if they couldn't see the building from their rooftop.
I mean you couldn't get medicine quickly. You'd have to wait for the horse to bring it. You'd never get the organ in time or in a condition worth using.


If nothing else, think of the horse and oxen. If it wasn't for the car, the poor horse and oxen would be blamed for all this. There are too many horses, the roads are filled with oxen dung! It's causing the planet to get warm! Horses make us fat and lazy! I got run over by a horse and broke my ribs!

[smashthestate]

Suburbia? QatzelOk, why do you hate Suburbia so much? We're not all city-life mongers like you. Some people like to have a sense of quiet and privacy. Some of us don't like the feeling of being surrounded by concrete and asphalt everyday. I love to visit the city, but there's no way in hell I'd ever want to live in one.

[Maxim Litvinov]

Wait... the suburbs over there AREN'T full of residential properties with their nosy neighbours, asphalted roads and concrete footpaths?

[GodSpeed]

They are but much less than urban areas.

[QatzelOk]

I love to visit the city, but there's no way in hell I'd ever want to live in one.

What really sucks about the city is all the cars of the visiting suburbanites.

If we could eliminate them, the quality of life of the inner cities would go up a lot.

Why don't you stay in suburbia? I never bother you out in the sticks. There is simply no strip mall that's worth the three-hour bus-ride.

[NYYS]

Why are you making obviously ridiculous arguements?

Godspeed, Qatz. Qatz, Godspeed.

Welcome to Pofo.

Wait... the suburbs over there AREN'T full of residential properties with their nosy neighbours, asphalted roads and concrete footpaths?

Quick quiz:

Where is there more noise - city or suburbs?

Where is there more asphalt and less grass - city or suburbs?

Some people like the suburbs. I've lived in both and they both have their good points. I'd like to settle down in the suburbs though, for the aforementioned reasons of quiet, privacy, nature, etc.

[Politically Motivated]

So you can't see the difference between a BMW and a Kia?

WOMEN!!!

Seriously though I can't stand seeing people who fork out on BMWs and thick gold chains when they're still living with mummy and daddy...

One person I know spent a few grand on a watch whilst having nowhere to live...

[Ombrageux]

GodSpeed - "Personal responsibility" is a an sociologically useless concept. In Somalia there are very few fat people, in America they are the majority, I assure you this state of affairs has previous little to do with free will or lack of thereof.

(I wouldn't deny that "personal responsibility" is useful to try to change behavior on a personal level, either as a way to affirm self-control within ourselves or to induce guilt into others...)

[Citizen J]

Godspeed, your understanding of non vehicular insfrastructure is seriously lacking. You should try to update yourself on this matter.

Case in point: your argument that one would not be able to reach the hospital is a non issue when the hospital is within a short distance of you and the 60,000 other people it serves through mass transport and emergency transport provided by the insfrastructure itself.

The infrastructure would be designed in a manner that minimizes the need for automobiles for a large part of living. The remaining part can be handled through rentals, private ownership, and mass transit between cities, arcologies, urbanates.

That's a far cry from the return to the medieval ages you seem to think eliminating the automobile would bring.

One person I know spent a few grand on a watch whilst having nowhere to live...

Buy you said it yourself. WOMEN. He's probably betting that watch will impress some girl who has a good job. Dating, possibly marriage and finally she will have him move in. So he's probably unconsciously thinking that watch and some fine duds might land him a home and an occasional snatch. (pardon the vernacular) He's playing the same game we've played for millinos of years. He might be taking the long shot, but you should not be upset by that. Unless he snags your g/f.

[QatzelOk]

In essence, car transportation is, itself, a luxury brand.

The use of cars for everyday transport has been branded in our minds by a media that is funded by car companies and oil companies, along with the car infrastructure lobby.

Or hadn't you noticed?

[ThereBeDragons]

If you want to put it that way, then so are the internet, television, sliced bread, and cell phones are all luxury brands. Admittedly, they are luxuries, but they're hardly branded in the sense of, "people only use them because they're branded."

[QatzelOk]

If you want to put it that way, then so are the internet, television, sliced bread, and cell phones are all luxury brands.

My understanding of "luxury" is that it involves something that is difficult to acquire - expensive or rare.

Cars qualify as this because they are expensive. I have read that the average North American car owner spends one forth of his life paying for, parking or driving his car. That is expensive, so it is luxury.

Cellphones, sliced bread, TVs and Internet are all pretty accesible. It is hard to call the Internet a "luxury" without bending the definition to fit your agenda.

People break their backs to polish the fenders of a Cadillac.

[Onion Poptarts]

What defines something as a luxury good I think is difficult to say. I can tell you that in the state of New York if you spend 150 dollars or more on a pair of shoes you pay "luxury" tax on them. If you own a house you paid a million dollars or more for regardless of the size you pay "mansion" tax on the property. What I'm asking is what exactly makes something a luxury I believe we need to agree on a definition first. Or we could just go along with what the US government defines a luxury good as.

[QatzelOk]

I don't think a really precise definition of "luxury" is required to debate the allure of allegedly "high end" products.

There are high-end airplanes just like there are high-end donuts.

Thing is, what is this obsession with being of the upper classes of donut-eaters?

[Dr House]

Because donuts are delicious.

I don't buy into the whole "luxury" bullcrap. But if there are people who do, fine by me.

[Theoretically Speaking]

Maybe I'm just crazy, but I don't buy luxury brands just because they are luxury brands.

Do I sometimes buy the name brands? sure. Usually, it comes down to value. I ask myself, is this item worth the extra cost? Is there something about it that justifies spending more? If the answer is yes, then I buy the luxury brand. If not, then I buy the generic brand.

Let me give a few examples. First, cheese. I buy Kraft cheese (yes, I know it's owned by a tobacco company, I don't give a rat's ass) over the generic brand. Why? Because the generic brand tastes like crap. I don't think it's actually even real cheese. I think it's made with water and petroleum products -though I could be wrong, maybe it just tastes that way. Second example: trash bags. I buy the name brand, always. Why? Because the generic ones often break, spreading disgusting garbage all over the place. I know this from personal experience. Third example: clothes. I typically do NOT buy the name brand here. Why? Because while the designer brands are often better built, they won't last FIVE TIMES as long, as indicated by their difference in price. So, I buy the cheaper ones, and replace them when they become worn. Last example: cars. I buy cars according to what I like to drive, what looks good, and by fuel efficiency. Yes, I try to buy cars that have a better fuel efficiency. Not because I am soooo concerned about the environment, but because I'm not stupid. I see gas prices going up and up and up. There is no reason to believe they will not continue to do so. I just don't want to be stuck with an SUV that gets 15 miles to the gallon when the price slips over $10 per gallon, which it most likely will, and sooner than most people think. I'm actually thinking of getting a Prius for my next car. It's not because I'm concerned about the environment, though. It's because I'm concerned about my wallet.

I really have NO inclination to buy luxury brands because of any social status they may give me. I could care less about social status. Even if I did, I judge my social status on how much money I make, not on how much I spend. If I buy a luxury brand, it's because I truly believe that brand to be absolutely worth the extra cost.

[Rancid]

I haven't sacrificed personality for economic consideration.

I sure love Qatz style verbal diarrhea though.. Caca soup for the soul!

Maybe I'm just crazy, but I don't buy luxury brands just because they are luxury brands.

same here