Are Muslims a homosexual's worst enemy? - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14815067
It is often pointed out that Christians represent a threat to the rights of homosexuals. This is true up to a point, however while Christian's generally regard homosexuality as a sin, generally the worst one can expect from them is imprisonment or similar. Muslims however have a rather fiercer attitude and their punishments are routinely lethal.

Fortunately for homosexuals throughout what was once thought of as Christendom but is now the secular world with the diminishing of the influence of Christianity so also has come increasing tolerance of homosexuality. An important milestone for the rights of homosexuals was the decriminalisation of sodomy that has occurred throughout the west in the last century. For example it was decriminalised in 1967 for England and Wales and in 1980 for Scotland.

In the Islamic world homosexuality is ubiquitously regarded as a serious crime almost invariably punishable by death. As Muslims increase in number and influence in the secular world it is a pretty reasonable expectation that they will seek to roll back legal and cultural tolerances of homosexuality among many other agendas, they will also feel bolder in exacting extra-judicial punishments.

To a great extent democracy is a numbers game yet homosexuals are not a huge voting block and for various reasons unlikely to get larger. Their few % could easily be overwhelmed by the fast increasing % of muslims, particularly given their birth rates and success in converting the prison populations of secular societies.

Homosexuals should not be complacent in their new found liberties for what was won can very easily yet be lost. The biggest threat to the continuation of homosexual rights and liberties is Islam.
#14815083
To me? No, I live in the US. If I lived in Pakistan or Iran it would be a different story. I'm more likely to get fag dragged by a dude with a confederate flag on his pickup truck than killed by a Muslim.
#14815099
mikema63 wrote:To me? No, I live in the US. If I lived in Pakistan or Iran it would be a different story. I'm more likely to get fag dragged by a dude with a confederate flag on his pickup truck than killed by a Muslim.

For time being that may be true in the US (muslim pop <1%). Europe is in a much more dangerous position. Do you not feel solidarity with European homosexuals?

Presumably you would think twice (and three times) about travelling to Pakistan or Iran. Would it not also bother you to have to think like that about travelling to Europe in the future?
#14815104
Currently? No I wouldn't feel unsafe traveling to Europe regardless of their Muslim populations so long as they uphold the rule of law.

Basically a couple of things would have to happen for me to feel unsafe in Europe. One would be signs of political repression of gays (as in Russia).

Another would be if the rate of attacks on LGBT people rose to levels statistically high enough that I'd face at least a 1/100 chance of being on the receiving end.

There are probably a few others that I haven't thought of off the top of my head.
#14815150
Sometimes I wonder, if the left couldn't break Christians from (supposedly) being dangerous, how do they expect to break Muslims? The reasoning that white conservatives are supposedly a greater threat doesn't really support the conclusion that it's good for the long term prospects of some of these groups to bring in people to the right of the Christians, who have demonstrated less flexibility in these areas.
#14815205
The Sabbaticus wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2DKS73y6B4

Only days ago Tommy Robinson co-organized an 'Against Hate March' together with Sikhs, ex-muslims and gay rights groups opposed to sharia through Manchester.

The MSM didn't like it.


Indeed. It's against the narrative. Gays supposed to be "progressive", and "progressivism" means today to align with Muslims who are anti Western and anti Modern etc, as is the "left"platform since the late of 60's.


#14815215
mikema63 wrote:Well shit if many gays in a completely different country are saying it...


:) How American of you. The same attitude sent Jewish refugees back to Europe in the 1940s (before your president decided that it would be advantageous for America to "save the Jews from the Nazis" and expand your sphere of influence) because obviously it was their problem if they were persecuted in Europe.

Someone wondered why gays don't feel solidarity with gays in other parts of the world. They do - as soon as a country refuses to let a shipload of gays into its harbour, they are up in arms, because their holiday is ruined.
#14815224
Are Muslims a homosexual's worst enemy?

No

Most studies on hate crime offending have found that perpetrators generally tend to be young white men (Chakraborti et al., 2014, p. 56; Iganski and Smith 2011; Smithson et al., 2011; Williams and Tregidga, 2013, p. 46), supporting the assertion that hate crimes are most frequently committed by those from the majority groups.


:)
Last edited by ingliz on 17 Jun 2017 10:22, edited 1 time in total.
#14815228
Except for the part where it's a numbers game and immigrants of Islamic background are disproportionately represented in hate crime statistics against homosexuals. Right?

I haven't read the studies, but that appears to be always the case in European countries.
#14815231
I haven't read the studies

It seems I have wasted 20 minutes finding (Smithson et al., 2011 proved to be the most difficult to access) and providing links to the research.

appears to be

:knife:
Last edited by ingliz on 17 Jun 2017 10:54, edited 1 time in total.
#14815287
ingliz wrote:It seems I have wasted 20 minutes finding (Smithson et al., 2011 proved to be the most difficult to access) and providing links to the research.

You found them but didn't read them I guess, just hoped no one else would sacrifice the time to read them.

I am slogging through them as we speak, but I'll share a few things I have found along the way.

From the first report it indicates that 61% of perpetrators of a hate crime (not the specific hate crime of homophobia but any hate crime, are "white", however for context in the sample area white people constitute over 81% of the population. I don't know how good you are with numbers but that clearly indicates that "white" people per capita are below average perpetrators of hate crimes.

For comparison 17% of perpetrators were "British Asian" (sadly this isn't specific enough to identify Muslims because this category will also presumably include Hindus, Sikhs etc.) whereas "British Asians" constitute under 4% of the population... Making "British Asians" are per capita above average perpetrators of hate crimes.

That's for general hate crime though not the more specific crime of homophobia.

On the next page we do have this though:

Patterns of perpetration are also evident in other strands of hate crime, including acts of gendered hostility.
In these cases, although the majority of offenders involved in respondents’ most recent experiences of hate crime were identified as White British (55%), over a quarter stated that an Asian British, Indian, Pakistani or Bangladeshi (27%) individual had been involved in their victimisation. The findings from this study illustrate that the profile of hate crime perpetrators is much more diverse than is commonly assumed, and the next section considers this complexity further.


So for "gendered hostility", which I suppose could include transphobia as well as homophobia, we find that "white British" are even less likely to be a perpetrator per capita than for general hate crimes while "Asian British, Indian, Pakistani or Bangladeshi" in accounting for over 27% of "gendered hostility" whilst being less that 4% of the population.

So yeah... I'll keep reading, but so far it's looking like you handing us these reports without reading them was a bit of an own goal for your efforts to cover for Islamic hate crimes against the LGBT :lol: peoples.

---------------

Anecdotes from the first report:
I know a male Muslim teenager, late teens who was realising that he was gay. He
went to his GP to try and find some help, support and found that the GP was also
Muslim and the GP just started shouting at him. Then he went to his imam and the
imam hit him.
- Gay man

I’ve had too much trouble with Somali youths hurling abuse. They’re not tolerant,
they are not interested in being tolerant, they’re not interested in anything other
than their culture. ... I mean they are nasty to their own people; I mean it’s nothing
personal, if they think one of their own people is gay or lesbian they have no
problem with killing them.
- Transgender woman

I hate to say it but the vast majority of the abuse I came across is from people that
are, it’s mainly Muslims, honestly they’ve got different values. You would think
they would understand more than anyone, but they don’t at all.
- Gay youth


:O
Last edited by SolarCross on 17 Jun 2017 13:43, edited 2 times in total.
#14815388
Frollein wrote::) How American of you. The same attitude sent Jewish refugees back to Europe in the 1940s (before your president decided that it would be advantageous for America to "save the Jews from the Nazis" and expand your sphere of influence) because obviously it was their problem if they were persecuted in Europe.

Someone wondered why gays don't feel solidarity with gays in other parts of the world. They do - as soon as a country refuses to let a shipload of gays into its harbour, they are up in arms, because their holiday is ruined.



I'm not entirely sure what point your making? Are gays fleeing Europe like Jews? Like noir you've neglected to do anything but assert there are issues. In the UK there were 187 homophobic hate crimes. At the low estimates there are about 3 million gay people. That means that .006% of gay people will actually experience violent homophobia. There were 1210 such incidents in the US with an LGBT population of 10 million which means .012% of gay people experience a hate crime. Twice the rate of the UK despite its higher Muslim population. America is objectively more dangerous for gay people that the UK.


And what's the point of the link? Is it something that annoys you when people criticise a country over it's fears about gay people?
#14815482
British Crime Survey (BCS)
Youth Justice Board (YJB)
youth offending service teams (YOS)

Smithson wrote:Ethnicity, offending and victimisation

A striking finding to emerge from the BCS survey is in relation to victims’ perceptions of the ethnicity of offenders, where this was known. This shows that while white offenders comprised the largest single group identified, they were not in a majority (43%), and victims believed that in 34 per cent of cases the offenders were Asian, and, in 29 per cent, black (Jansson, 2006).

These findings are in stark contrast to the YJB’s THEMIS data for young people which demonstrate that the overwhelming majority of racially motivated offenders that YOS teams dealt with were classified as white (nearly 87%). This dwarfs all the other ethnic categories, which together accounted for just 10.7 per cent of offenders (in the BCS this figure was 65%). Within the YOS data for black and minority ethnic (BME) offenders, black offenders accounted for 4.5 per cent of referrals, and Asian offenders for 3.4 per cent.

The question arises as to the reason for the apparent discrepancy between the BCS and THEMIS regarding the ethnicity of offenders. Of course it should be emphasized that the BCS details victim’s perceptions of the ethnicity of the offender, whilst the THEMIS data records the actual ethnicity of detected perpetrators.


perceptions

:lol:
#14815627
@ingliz

This pattern of increased reporting (especially by
traditionally victimised groups) and
recording by agencies could explain at least part o
f the substantial increase in racially
motivated offending by young people as reflected in
the THEMIS data. However, whether
this explains the full extent of the increase remai
ns an open question.
Could this response also have been facilitated by t
he government's guidance as to the
definition of a racist incident as '...any incident w
hich is viewed as racist by the victim or
any
other person'
. This leaves it open to the police, or other agenc
y, to ascribe a racial motive to
an offence, even where the victim and offender beli
eve this not to be the case. This could
easily lend itself to the misidentification of offe
nces and subsequent inappropriate conviction
of suspects. The label of racially motivated offend
er is not one which should be applied
lightly, and where it is applied incorrectly, it ri
sks alienating the offender and encouraging the
very behaviour one is trying to change.


Why are you talking about race btw? Check the OP, this is about muslim attitudes towards homosexuals. Race is irrelevant.
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