Why are the Liberals getting their own way - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Modern liberalism. Civil rights and liberties, State responsibility to the people (welfare).
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#14863195
It infuriates me that the vast majority of the population have relatively right wing and populist views, and even most Labour voters are more right wing they would care to admit, however the liberals and their crazy ideas always appear to get their own way. It's almost as if the media have an underlying plot. You only have to watch question time or any other political debate to witness a totally unreflective audience screaming and booing at any guest who dare voice an opinion that is reflected by 90% of the population.

For example, the majority of people in the UK want tighter restrictions on immigration, primarily because of our overpopulation, and the corrosion of our culture. If anyone dare say this they are labeled racist and spat at by middle class university students who have never had to live in area that has been effected.

So what do you think ?
#14863365
Know It All wrote:It infuriates me that the vast majority of the population have relatively right wing and populist views, and even most Labour voters are more right wing they would care to admit, however the liberals and their crazy ideas always appear to get their own way.


I think most people are just confused. Most people love their social programs and resent the power and influence of extreme wealth, but they also have a basic morality that dictates that that which someone has earned is rightfully due them. The disconnect is they don't understand how almost all wealth and privilege is unearned and that even if it was earned the people could have achieved the exact same benefits through public investment without the so called "entrepreneur" .
#14863406
I disagree. I think the question is how the right wing are getting their way and obviously governing for the benefit on a very small segment of the population.

Money talks. Either directly through campaigning and media or indirectly though bribery and corruption. Large vested interests are able to to influence politics in the capitalists world. Generally they work through the righter wing/conservative politics because they a larger degree on alignment of interests, though increasing the centre-left/labour parties have became increasing subverting by moneyed interests.

While the OP may or not have a point of immigration as restriction may well be a more popular (but nowhere near the claimed 90%) , there are a larger (IMHO) of issues where unpopular right wing policies are thrust on a public which is often more left wing on those issues.
#14863408
Know It All wrote:It infuriates me that the vast majority of the population have relatively right wing and populist views, and even most Labour voters are more right wing they would care to admit, however the liberals and their crazy ideas always appear to get their own way. It's almost as if the media have an underlying plot. You only have to watch question time or any other political debate to witness a totally unreflective audience screaming and booing at any guest who dare voice an opinion that is reflected by 90% of the population.

For example, the majority of people in the UK want tighter restrictions on immigration, primarily because of our overpopulation, and the corrosion of our culture. If anyone dare say this they are labeled racist and spat at by middle class university students who have never had to live in area that has been effected.

So what do you think ?

I think it's racism hysteria vs. common sense at this point. Wanting things like effective immigration controls is not necessarily racist but there is little will to stand up to people who will freak out and start screaming that you're a racist so the borderline open borders experiment is continuing in certain places.
#14863412
Hong Wu wrote:I think it's racism hysteria vs. common sense at this point. Wanting things like effective immigration controls is not necessarily racist but there is little will to stand up to people who will freak out and start screaming that you're a racist so the borderline open borders experiment is continuing in certain places.


Most people in the West rightfully want immigration control but at the same time are complicit in the aggression and exploitation that gives rise to mass immigration. It's hard to have sympathy for a people that have created the chaos they're suffering from.
#14863415
Hong Wu wrote:I think it's racism hysteria vs. common sense at this point.
Yes, if you mean the racism that white people are complaining about because they feel that their white privilege might be threatened.
#14863417
Sivad wrote:Most people in the West rightfully want immigration control but at the same time are complicit in the aggression and exploitation that gives rise to mass immigration. It's hard to have sympathy for a people that have created the chaos they're suffering from.

Well, if immigration is an ultimate consequence of colonialism and a lack of development in some other countries, but then colonialism was only possible because of a difference in development in the first place, what you're ultimately saying seems to be that anyone who does well has to suffer for it since a difference in development that preceded the colonial period can't be attributed to white people harming non-white people because pre-colonialism there was not a lot of contact.

Or if you are saying that some places should be more developed and this doesn't result in colonialism or immigration, that might beg the question why the west should be having open borders right now just because it is more developed.

It also raises the question of whether a modern difference in development is truly attributable to colonialism since again, such a difference existed before colonialism as well and is what enabled colonialism in the first place.

The ultimate conclusion of punishing people for the perceived sins of their ancestors is a zero sum game and it's quite unfortunate that westerners accepted this idea during their endeavors to gain social capital against each other, which is all this is since most liberals who support this stuff will never have to live near migrant areas, that is fostered upon the poorer people who get called racist for complaining.
#14863422
:lol: Recognizing the sins of your forefathers is acknowledging them, and it isn't PUNISHMENT. Only a touchy feely tenderfoot would perceive being held accountable, as punishment.

If your complaints are BASED in racist ideas, then you should be called racist for complaining.
#14863426
Hong Wu wrote:Well, if immigration is an ultimate consequence of colonialism and a lack of development in some other countries, but then colonialism was only possible because of a difference in development in the first place, what you're ultimately saying seems to be that anyone who does well has to suffer for it since a difference in development that preceded the colonial period can't be attributed to white people harming non-white people because pre-colonialism there was not a lot of contact.


Well that's just insane. You're only doing well at the expense of the other people that you've brutalized?
#14863429
Sivad wrote:Well that's just insane. You're only doing well at the expense of the other people that you've brutalized?

I was trying to understand or restate your argument. You said that white people brought this "chaos" onto themselves and when people write things like that, they usually mean colonialism etc. If that's not what you meant then what do you mean? ISIS is finished in Syria and most of the migrants in the latest wave were not actually from Syria to begin with.
#14863476
Restricting immigration is a left wing thing not a right wing thing. If you illegally tried to cross the Soviet border the NKVD shot to kill. You get mass immigration in right wing nations like the USA or Britain as the capitalists want more workers to weaken our unions and push down our wages. The general population tend towards opposing immigration as they are far to the left of all establishment parties.
#14863566
Godstud wrote:Liberals are getting their way(only a bit) because they are the majority, now.

Good post, Sivad.


Sorry, you are so wrong. In certain area's of yuppy London, and privileged uni students, you may be right, otherwise the general public are FAR from liberal. I have an array of friends from different backgrounds, and believe me none of them can be described as liberal. I keep hearing on the TV that what was acceptable 20 years ago is no longer acceptable now, but frankly that is bollocks. Although I am retired now, the vast amount of people in the work place still behave as they did many years ago. They still tell racist and sexist jokes, and most of time anything goes. The small minority of liberals who are always looking for something to be offended by are a tiny minority.
#14863600
Know It All wrote:The small minority of liberals who are always looking for something to be offended by are a tiny minority.

And yet, here you are, starting threads to complain about the mean liberals, and in your signature claiming they're all hypocrites. It seem to be you who is perpetually offended.

An example of how the UK (since all your moaning is about the UK, as far as I can tell) has become more liberal:

Image

http://www.brin.ac.uk/figures/attitudes ... ay-rights/ (more figures at the link)
#14863602
Figures from the Cultural Marxist school of falsification. Notice how there's no figures for Muslims. In fact there's no figures for other religions. Inconvenient results are just not published.
#14863649
Rich wrote:Figures from the Cultural Marxist school of falsification.
Cultural Marxism is a conspiracy theory. We're talking about real things.

Liberalism is on the rise, and that's why Conservatives are whining and making such a huge fuss. They see their star descending, and their feelings are in danger of being hurt.
#14863789
Godstud wrote:Cultural Marxism is a conspiracy theory. We're talking about real things.

You have become one of Cultural Marxism's classic pushers. No one's saying that every ones receiving orders from some secret centre. Cultural Marxism started as a strategy by Marxists as a response to the peoples rejection of Bolshevism after the October Revolution. there were whole number of seizures and attempted seizures of power by Communists from 1918 till 1923. But by the end of 1923 the wave was over and only the Soviet union remained.

Cultural Marxism was the "slow, hidden" , to use Gramsci's words attempt to corrode, corrupt and demoralise Liberal democracies from the inside, by a relentless campaign against the identity and legitimacy of the society, its institutions and its morality. This was practised ruthlessly and with some success by the Soviet Union during the cold war. The attacks will take some what different forms in different places. So in Britain it takes the form of an endless assault against Whiteness, Infidels, Gentiles, Britishness, masculinity, heterosexuality, Christianity, Protestantism and Englishness.

But note for Cultural Marxism to work, it had to to taken up by people who weren't Marxist. The Frankfurt school were semi Marxist but allowed the bridge to academics and intellectuals who weren't Marxist at all. Cultural Marxism long ago conquered, the arts the social sciences, teaching and social services. But more recently cultural Marxism has conquered a lot of the corporations. No one's suggesting that Mark Zuckerberg want's to abolish private property. Cultural Marxism works all the better when people don't know they Cultural Marxists, when they don't know the source of these memes of hate, when they have their own agendas.

You Godstud are a classic Cultural Marxist, you sit in Thailand, I believe. The place that marketed itself as the number one paedophile tourist holiday destination of the world, outraged by some unsubstantiated allegations about a Senatorial candidate, on the other side of the world, from over 30 years ago. And you don't see the irony.

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