Has Anti-Racism Become as Harmful as Racism in the USA? - Page 7 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15164325
Pants-of-dog wrote:I see that none of the critics of anti-racism have actually provided a real world example of harm caused by opposing racism.

Since you enjoy victimhood you see nothing wrong. The whole system is designed to make black people perennial victims, that cannot be a good thing. How about a bit of pride and better self esteem?
#15164329
XogGyux wrote:Oh please. Stop playing the victim.
Have you seen the the "harmful" propagation of anti-"antiloookism" (Made up word to mean the opposite of lookism - discrimination against ugly people - therefore antilookism is being used as descrimination of beautiful people)

Newsflash, unlike racisms, there are not a lot of people discriminating against beautiful people (quite the opposite in fact, we like them). So anti-"antilookism" would be a nuisanse. In otherwords, you are concerned about anti-racism? Work hard to get rid of racism first and the rest will fade into comedy.

Pretending otherwise is borderline bigotry.




The problem I have with your analogy has to do with the fact that "beauty", or "ugly" for that matter, is in the eye of the beholder. It is a subjective call. Whereas skin pigmentation, or the deficiency thereof, is not a subjective call
#15164331
XogGyux wrote:And you need to read the "how to" of how to not be a racist :lol:


“The difference between educated people and uneducated people is that educated people have been opened up to the notion that you can disagree without fighting; whereas uneducated people, in conversation, seek to always agree--everybody agrees and agrees and that's considered basic social libation.”
― John McWhorter
#15164336
Godstud wrote::lol: False premise. That's complete nonsense.

Racism: prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.
"a program to combat racism"
.

How are white people marginalized? They certainly aren't the minority. How are they harmed in any conceivable way?

Being against racism is anti-racist, and it's no religion. It's calling out racists for the things they say and do. As you have said racist things in the past, I have called you out for saying them. If you don't like being called out for such things, you can always stop saying them, or you can stop reducing the argument down to 'race'.

@JuinYou have still not produced to me evidence of racism against white people, and how they were hurt and harmed. "Reverse" racism, is nonsense. I am waiting...




I gave you the example of Zimbabwe. Last I looked whites are not a majority there.


Now on your Proposition that "Reverse" racism is nonesense. That will seem to make racism unidirectional. Which raises some problems you may wanna address. It will seem if we submit, for example, that racism by whites against say chinese is True, then its reverse: racism by chinese towards whites is False? Is that what you are saying?
#15164357
Juin wrote:I gave you the example of Zimbabwe. Last I looked whites are not a majority there.
We are not talking about Zimbabwe, but USA. Give me an example, in the USA, where racism against whites had any implications whatsoever.

Juin wrote:Now on your Proposition that "Reverse" racism is nonesense.
No, it isn't "nonsense". Racism is aimed at a persecuted minority, who lack systemic and economic power. It can, therefore, only be unidirectional, unless there is a fundamental shift in the culture and society.

Juin wrote:It will seem if we submit, for example, that racism by whites against say chinese is True, then its reverse: racism by chinese towards whites is False? Is that what you are saying?
We are not discussing China, though, are we? There might very well be racism against white people in China. As I said, it's against a minority that lacks economic/systemic power. This does not, however, support the claims of Americans of "reverse racism" in the USA, as they aren't living in China.

It would be like Chinese people in China complaining about racism from foreigners living there. :knife:
#15164366
Godstud wrote: No, it isn't "nonsense". Racism is aimed at a persecuted minority, who lack systemic and economic power. It can, therefore, only be unidirectional, unless there is a fundamental shift in the culture and society.

So you're saying if a POC owned a restaurant and didn't hire a white person because they hated white people that's not racism?
#15164367
@Unthinking Majority It's not really racism, but a response to it.

Can you figure out WHY a black person in America might act in that manner? I can tell you why, but it ends up being because they are, themselves, victims of racism on a much grander scale.

Assuming that a black person in America, having dealt with racism all their life, isn't going to respond in a similar manner, or even retaliating, is obtuse. Racism in USA resulting in black people responding in kind, isn't "reverse racism". It's the results of them being the victims of it, for so long.

If I am in China, and don't allow Chinese people into my business, I will go out of business, so if I am being racist in response to their racism, who am I harming?
#15164370
Godstud wrote:We are not talking about Zimbabwe, but USA. Give me an example, in the USA, where racism against whites had any implications whatsoever.



It is for you to broaden your universe beyond the phyisical borders of the United States. Zimbabwe is my example, take it or leave it
#15164373
Godstud wrote: No, it isn't "nonsense". Racism is aimed at a persecuted minority, who lack systemic and economic power. It can, therefore, only be unidirectional, unless there is a fundamental shift in the culture and society.



That is NOT my definition of racism. Anytime a person is judged based on their race we have a case of racism. It doesnt matter if the person engaging in a racist act is impoverished, a minority, or whatever.
#15164376
@Juin If you can't form a cogent argument, then don't bother piping in.

We are not, nor have we been, discussing racism/anti-racism in Zimbabwe. This is called a "Whataboutism". "What about Zimbabwe??!" , said Juin with false sincerity. :roll:

Can you provide examples of "reverse racism" in Zimbabwe, or are you really just dodging the questions?

Racism isn't "universal". It is locational and variable. The more educated a society is, the less likely they are to be racist.

Juin wrote:Anytime a person is judged based on their race we have a case of racism.
Unless there is some sort of "power" involved, it's not racism.

eg. I am a Caucasian living in SE Asia. I am indeed discriminated against, but not in a manner you can describe as "racist", because I often am given advantages, because of this. How is this racism?
#15164378
Unthinking Majority wrote:So you're saying if a POC owned a restaurant and didn't hire a white person because they hated white people that's not racism?



Of course, that is racism. And it also explains a farce going on over assaults against Asians. The vast majority of attacks on Asians are not by whites, but Anti Racism Crusaders almost always contort themselves to make it a case of white supremacy. There was some demonstration in New York following some assaults on Asians. Anti Racism Crusaders circulated a flyer calling for a turnout against white supremacy. But the perps in the cases that prompted the uproar were not white!
#15164379
XogGyux wrote:Do you live in fking Zimbawe? dude. stop making silly arguments. Going around like a broken record.



My most humble apologies. I am not used to dealing with individuals whose universe does not extend beyond the borders of the United States. Racism is a plague that plagues all corners of the universe, from the beginning of time till today. I wont know what to make of a hillbilly who is under the impression it is a uniquely American phenomenon.

This is the most hilarious moment I have experienced so far in my short presence in the forum: a variety of American native to whom the notion that there is a world beyond the borders of the United States is foreign
#15164380
Godstud wrote:@Juin If you can't form a cogent argument, then don't bother piping in.

We are not, nor have we been, discussing racism/anti-racism in Zimbabwe. This is called a "Whataboutism". "What about Zimbabwe??!" , said Juin with false sincerity. :roll:

Can you provide examples of "reverse racism" in Zimbabwe, or are you really just dodging the questions?

Racism isn't "universal". It is locational and variable. The more educated a society is, the less likely they are to be racist.

Unless there is some sort of "power" involved, it's not racism.

eg. I am a Caucasian living in SE Asia. I am indeed discriminated against, but not in a manner you can describe as "racist", because I often am given advantages, because of this. How is this racism?




As I said, I gave you the example of Zimbabwe. Take it or leave it. I welcome inputs on discussions on racism from any part of the world where it takes place. Why should I limit my universe to the United States? I dont ask you to expand your universe, dont ask me to limit mine.

If you are in China and some Chinese fellow's treatment of you- an adverse treatement- is soley because you are not Chinese, then that is racism. That you may receive preferential treatment from other Chinese fellows does not negate the racism of the first Chinese. Same too, if a black man is treated with hostility by one white, solely because of his colour, that is a case of racism. And that act of racism is not negated by the black receiving preferential treatement from other whites.
#15164389
Juin wrote:My most humble apologies. I am not used to dealing with individuals whose universe does not extend beyond the borders of the United States. Racism is a plague that plagues all corners of the universe, from the beginning of time till today. I wont know what to make of a hillbilly who is under the impression it is a uniquely American phenomenon.

This is the most hilarious moment I have experienced so far in my short presence in the forum: a variety of American native to whom the notion that there is a world beyond the borders of the United States is foreign

LOL, Perhaps there is a misunderstanding. GL trying to portrait this Cuban as a "hillbilly" :lol: .
My point was, the vast majority of topics discussed are from a point of view of western countries. You shouldn't be surprised if nobody takes the bait. :lol:
#15164392
Sorry for not following the whole discussion.

I find the OP video insightful that, this question is raised by an African American.
The voice from the (supposedly) affected group always brings insight even if I don't agree 100% of their points 100% of the time.
----------

IMHO the problem of racism is about mindset.

1. In an ideal case, if people can be judged based on a common ruler, do so.
2. If 1 is technically impossible (due to statistical facts), at least not to let this statistical observation make us to have stereotyped response against individuals based on their ethnicity. The said treatment should only be invoked if the said individual's behaviour does reflect their mind.
3. We might have generalised view for or against certain groups, or even go as far as calling for specific actions against an entity representing a group of people. But when we come down to individuals and front-line implementations we need to be as positively fair as possible.
4. Negative actions or reactions has to be made on very firm grounds, i.e. there're no other viable alternatives.

As such, I see myself a racist, because I fail to comply with 2 and 3 when dealing with non-Chinese (I generally feel fear when I am around them). Meanwhile, with regard of my view on my own race (Chinese) I am not able to achieve 4.

Admittedly I have only been able to converse comfortably with fellow Hongkongers, Taiwanese, Japanese and Europeans; even though I had acquaintance with SE Asians and South Asians before.

----------

The problem of anti-Racism is that many of them do not understand the basis on top of which people develop racism.

They strive for using one basic standard to judge all human, and address for individual groups' difference wherever necessary. I think that's an ideal we should after, but it doesn't mean that whoever unable to achieve it are automatically despicable shit.

On a side note, some anti-Racists' behaviour actually invoke others' mental resistance, and in effect they fueled racism out of spite.
#15164393
Julian658 wrote:The whole system is designed to make black people perennial victims, that cannot be a good thing.

How about a bit of pride and better self esteem?


To be frank, if that's the objective I will say the problem is that the likes of you have not managed to cultivate the necessary environment.
#15164408
Juin wrote:As I said, I gave you the example of Zimbabwe. Take it or leave it. I welcome inputs on discussions on racism from any part of the world where it takes place. Why should I limit my universe to the United States? I dont ask you to expand your universe, dont ask me to limit mine.
You've said this already, and I think it's just dodging the topic because you cannot provide an example of reverse racism to support your idiotic premise.

All racism is NOT equal, and WHERE it happens makes a big difference, even if you can't accept that, with your limited view on racism.

If you aren't mature enough to stick to the topic, then I am done with you. Start up a thread about racism in Zimbabwe, so you can take your "Whataboutism" where it belongs.
#15164409
Godstud wrote:You've said this already, and I think it's just dodging the topic because you cannot provide an example of reverse racism to support your idiotic premise.

All racism is NOT equal, and WHERE it happens makes a big difference, even if you can't accept that, with your limited view on racism.

If you aren't mature enough to stick to the topic, then I am done with you. Start up a thread about racism in Zimbabwe, so you can take your "Whataboutism" where it belongs.


To be fair, you forgot to reassert that your discussion had been about the US until late in the argument, and if your challenge to him was seen verbatim he didn't go off topic.

@Juin Next time read what you were quoting first. Godstud's been talking about USA all the time, and he's such an savage and aggressive debater that, I am afraid you are making a very foolish move to challenge him without reading carefully.
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