[Maas]

source

Foreign affairs minister Uri Rosenthal on Thursday recalled the Dutch ambassador to its former colony of Suriname because of a controversial new amnesty law.

The move followed a vote on Wednesday evening in the Suriname parliament in favour of legislation designed to protect those guilty of the 'December murders' from punishment.

Among those suspected of involvement is former military leader Desi Bouterse, who was voted in as president of Suriname in 2010. He is currently on trial for his role in killing 15 political opponents in December 1982.

Rosenthal has recalled the ambassador for 'discussions' and said he is 'deeply disappointed' that the amnesty law was accepted. Together with the EU and other similarly-minded countries, he is looking at what further steps can be taken.

Bouterse was sentenced to jail for drugs smuggling in the Netherlands but avoided jail because Suriname does not extradite its own citizens.

The South American country became a Dutch colony in the 17th century and gained full independence in 1975.

A true banana republic.
Bouterse made a coup. Got the elected political leaders executed. Took control of the drugstrade on the side. Brainwash the public, so he could get elected. And when people do start to want him to be held accountable for the crimes he comitted, just give yourself amnesty.

[Soulflytribe]

A true banana republic.

Add who should be blamed for that?

It's like the portuguese blaming the blacks in Mozambique for the fact that the country is now a failed state. The portuguese had "only" 500 years(!) to develop the area, but of course they couldn't care less about the place that is now considered hell on Earth...

[Maas]

Add who should be blamed for that?

It's like the portuguese blaming the blacks in Mozambique for the fact that the country is now a failed state. The portuguese had "only" 500 years(!) to develop the area, but of course they couldn't care less about the place that is now considered hell on Earth...

My country has as policy not to support their ex-colonies when its governed by a bunch of criminals.
What would you otherwise expect? That they support Bouterse?

[Soulflytribe]

My country has as policy not to support their ex-colonies when its governed by a bunch of criminals.
What would you otherwise expect? That they support Bouterse?

Of course I don't expect that!

What I am saying it that such criminal people were able to rule Suriname only because the dutch didn't care at all to develop the area when they were there. It's the same the french has been doing in French Guiana or the portuguese did in Mozambique. The french don't care about French Guiana, the place is very different from continental France and there is almost no french living there.
It is not a surprise that some criminals take over a place like that, claim independence and become the new rulers of a new banana republic.

[Maas]

Of course I don't expect that!

What I am saying it that such criminal people were able to rule Suriname only because the dutch didn't care at all to develop the area when they were there.

Bullshit. We helped to train their police force up to now and still all judges are tought the trade in my country.
And this is their own way of making laws to get away with murder. So my government will pull the plug again on helping them out.... again. They are running their own country into the ground with coups and these amnesty laws.

My country is even planning to more than pulling out. They are planning to go and speak to other nations of South America / EU / US and ask to not let Bouterse enter their country or arrest him and sent him to The Netherlands,.. where he actually is convicted and needs to sit some years in jail for the drugs trade he was in.

[foxdemon]

I don't think we can blame the Dutch for this. Indonesia is another former Dutch colony and they seem to have progressed ok. True, they have been independant longer, and they had to fight for their independence and they have had a dodgy dictator. It is also true the Dutch did very little to develop the place. But does this mean anything?

If we compare Indonesia with Malaysia, it seems the Brtish did a better job as Malaysia is basicaly a developed country now. It is true the British did some questionable things in supressing the communist/chinese insurection in the 1950's and 60's. But they did leave behind a system of governance and plenty of educated people to run it. The Indonesians had to start from scratch.

If we look at Zimbabwe, we can see the British didn't always suceed at leaving a healthy colonial society. The ruler od Zimbabwe seems not too dissimilar to this fellow in Suriname. I guess circumstances will cause some ex colonial states to fail regardless of the actions or character of the former european power. Certainly Asian states seem to get their shit together better than African states. Looks like Suriname is similar to the African model.

This difference between Africa and the far east might be due to the depth of governance and social complexity in the respective regions before the europeans showed up.

[Goldberk]

If we compare Indonesia with Malaysia, it seems the Brtish did a better job as Malaysia is basicaly a developed country now.

economically yes, but social and civil rights are lacking in both. Malaysia has it's own form of apartheid and Indonesia wages constant war against its own citizens.

[Smertios]

Hmm... Suriname.. Latin America?

A true banana republic.
Bouterse made a coup. Got the elected political leaders executed. Took control of the drugstrade on the side. Brainwash the public, so he could get elected. And when people do start to want him to be held accountable for the crimes he comitted, just give yourself amnesty.

What I really don't understand is why on earth the political rights of the guy were not revoked. If he had showed any indications that he regretted his actions, I could even understand that he could run for office. But since he came to power, he gave medals to the people involved in the murders during the dictatorship, pardoned murderers that were related to him, declared the day of the coup as a national holiday, passed this weird amnesty. This guy is no better than Fujimori, really.

But he didn't even have to brainwash the people into electing him. The President of Suriname is elected indirectly, by the Congress. All he had to do was form alliances with other parties, create that Mega Combinatie coalition and make sure he would be elected. Quite sad, really.

And while we have a dictator in Suriname, the Unasul doesn't even seem to care. A president taken down by an elected Congress through constitutional means in Paraguay, on the other hand, was labeled as a coup right away, and Paraguay suspended from the bloc. Sometimes it is hard to understand what politicians think...

Add who should be blamed for that?

It's like the portuguese blaming the blacks in Mozambique for the fact that the country is now a failed state. The portuguese had "only" 500 years(!) to develop the area, but of course they couldn't care less about the place that is now considered hell on Earth...

That's not exactly fair. In any case. For starters, guilt is not inheritable. The current Dutch government is not, by any means, colonialist. And they have been trying to help former colonies develop. It's not their fault that their predecessors might have sucked.

As for the Portuguese, real colonization of Mozambique didn't start till the late 19th century. Before that, they only had a few trading posts scattered through the coast, and some in the interior of the country. The Monomotapa Kingdom continued to exist independently till the 18th century in what became the Portuguese East Africa in the following century. Sure, they were a vassal state of Portugal from the 17th century on, but they were still not part of Portugal.

I'd say that the Portuguese had roughly 100 years to do anything there, from the beginning of real colonization in the late 19th century to the Mozambican independence in 1975. They weren't even able to establish their culture, as they did in Brazil. The Portuguese language is spoken solely by a small minority in Mozambique, for example, whereas in Brazil, it is spoken by 99% of the population, including several "pure" Amerindian tribes.

[Maas]

I don't think we can blame the Dutch for this. Indonesia is another former Dutch colony and they seem to have progressed ok. True, they have been independant longer, and they had to fight for their independence and they have had a dodgy dictator. It is also true the Dutch did very little to develop the place. But does this mean anything?

prior to WWII, the Netherlands was in no economic position to help develop Indonesia. We we're mostly an agricultural country. And after the independence of Indonesia the people (since they all were Dutch citizens) were alloud to choose who wanted to return to the Netherlands and who wanted to stay behind. That caused a huge brain drain. And our government took a firm stance to not give aid to a dictator.

Suriname, besides that they got independent without a fight, was rather much simular. 1/3 of the population went to The Netherlands when it became independent. Such a massive amount of people leaving the country, any country, is just devastating. Immagine a country like the US becomming a country where 1 in every 3 houses is just not occupied and has no buyer. Immagine that morgage crisis!

What I really don't understand is why on earth the political rights of the guy were not revoked.

He is popular, that is why. It is simply as shallow as that. And in some countries the popular people get away with murder.
Its not like GWB will ever be charged for torture (nevermind being convicted)