Appeal to the Venezuelan military to defy a state of emergen - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

Wandering the information superhighway, he came upon the last refuge of civilization, PoFo, the only forum on the internet ...

Political issues and parties from Mexico to Argentina.

Moderator: PoFo Latin America Mods

Forum rules: No one line posts please. This is an international political discussion forum, so please post in English only.
#14680905
Bump:
Travesty wrote:They seem to have fucked up everything within one year. Just last year the growth rate was 6% as opposed to 0.6 today. Chevez's death seems to have entirely disrupted the political and economic situation. I don't think that they will collapse though as long as oil prices remain above 100$.

Condition cleared, and they still didn't diversify their economy, and I hear nothing about a rainy day fund.

Rei Murasame wrote:I don't know, which do you think is worse, having capital accumulation causing some disruption of the lives of rural people in the short term, or pursuing a very comfortable policy that leads to the actual collapse of socialism in the medium term?

Because that's really the choice, you can't please everyone all the time.

Interesting statement, myself from the past!

Update:
WSWS, 'Venezuela’s right appeals to military amid mounting tensions', 19 May 2016 wrote:Leading right-wing politician and former presidential candidate Henrique Capriles made an open appeal to the Venezuelan military Wednesday to defy a state of emergency put into effect at the beginning of the week by President Nicolas Maduro.

The provocative appeal came as Capriles and other leaders of the Venezuelan right organized protest marches in Caracas and elsewhere in the country to demand that the government hold a popular referendum on revoking Maduro’s presidency. Petitions carrying some 1.85 million signatures were turned in on May 2 demanding the initiation of the process. If accepted, 4 million signatures, representing 20 percent of the electorate, would be required to secure the referendum.

Demonstrators in Caracas were met with tear gas when they attempted to march on the National Electoral Council. Elsewhere in the capital, backers of Maduro gathered to support the embattled president.

Both the pro- and anti-government demonstrations were relatively small, reflecting the anger and alienation of broad sections of the population that have turned against the government, but see the political elements organized in the MUD (Democratic Unity Roundtable) as representatives of a Venezuelan oligarchy that has continuously oppressed working people.

Political tensions are rising as Venezuela’s economy plummets. Driven by the sharp decline in oil prices, the crisis has seen the economy shrink at the rate of 8 percent during what is the third straight year of recession. The inflation rate is projected to hit almost 2,000 percent by next year.

Soaring prices have been accompanied by shortages of basic foods and other necessities. Imports have been reduced by as much as 40 percent as the Maduro government directs dwindling foreign currency to meeting debt payments to the international banks.

The result has been a growing wave of protests and road blockades in working class districts, and increasing incidents of looting of supermarkets and government food dispensaries. According to the Venezuelan Observatory for Social Conflict, spontaneous demonstrations have been taking place at the rate of 17 per day across the country, while 107 separate incidents of looting were registered during the first quarter of the year, with the rate increasing over the past month and a half.

Tuesday saw disturbances in Guarenas, a working class town east of Caracas. The unrest broke out after a long line of people waiting outside a government-subsidized supermarket saw a truck carrying food approach, only to be taken away by soldiers. The crowd blocked roads in the center of the town and chanted, “We want food” and “We are hungry.”

Stores and businesses shut down, school children were sent home early and public transportation was suspended as members of the Bolivarian National Guard and local police moved in to break up the protest. At least 18 people were arrested.

The unrest in Guarenas was an especially sensitive issue for the government as it was in this town in 1989 that the Caracazo, the mass uprising against an IMF-dictated austerity package, broke out, leading to clashes in which as many as 2,000 Venezuelans lost their lives in the violent repression used to repress the rebellion.

Maduro has publicly justified the new state of emergency on the grounds that a foreign invasion is imminent. His principal evidence consists of a statement made by Alvaro Uribe, the ultra-right ex-president of Colombia, at a conference organized at a college in Miami calling for a “democratic military” force to act in defense of Venezuela’s right-wing opposition. Uribe has also made statements denouncing the current president of Colombia, Juan Manuel Santos, for introducing a “dictatorship backed by guns and terrorist explosives” through the negotiations to end the war with the FARC guerrilla group.

The real reasons behind the state of emergency lie elsewhere. In the first instance, it is aimed at suppressing popular unrest. In the second, it can be used to suspend constitutional rights, including the right to a referendum on revoking the mandate of the sitting president.

Maduro declared Tuesday that the calling of a referendum was “an option not an obligation,” and that the government “is not required to hold any referendum in this country of any kind.” His predecessor, the late Hugo Chavez, accepted such a recall referendum in 2004, just two years after an abortive US-backed military coup. He defeated the attempt to oust him with support from 59 percent of the voters. Polls indicate that Maduro would lose badly if he submitted to a similar referendum.

In addition to the state of emergency, Maduro has called for nationwide military maneuvers this coming weekend. There has been speculation in Venezuela that such exercises may be aimed at disrupting possible military plots against him.

The military has been a central pillar of so-called “Bolivarian socialism” since its origins, along with the banks and the boliburguesia, the layer of government officials and politically-connected businessmen who have enriched themselves off of speculation and corruption schemes. At least 10 of Maduro’s ministers are drawn from the military, while ex-officers are governors of a number of states. The founder of the Bolivarian state, Hugo Chavez, was himself an ex-lieutenant colonel who came to political prominence as the result of a failed coup in 1992.

Maduro, a former union official, does not have the close political ties to the Venezuelan military that Chavez enjoyed, and there are persistent reports of disquiet within the officer corps.

One manifestation of such divisions came this week with public statements by the retired major general Clíver Alcalá Cordones, a former top commander who participated with Chavez in the 1992 coup. Declaring himself a “convinced chavista,” he charged that Maduro had “administered the legacy of Chavez very badly” and said he supported a recall referendum. Alcalá Cordones added that the present conditions in Venezuela struck him as very similar to those that prevailed when Chavez sought to overthrow the government of President Carlos Andrés Pérez.

While claiming that he was not proposing a military coup, the rightist politician Capriles certainly sounded like it: “And I tell the armed forces: The hour of truth is coming, to decide whether you are with the constitution or with Maduro.”

In an apparent response to the unrest, the army Wednesday organized a mass meeting of officers in Caracas which was addressed by Defense Minister Vladimir Padrino Lopez, who stressed the need to maintain “peace” and counter a “campaign against Venezuela to generate chaos and violence to permit an intervention by the government of the United States.”

Padrino Lopez told the officers that they should familiarize themselves with the constitution in order to understand “the task which the National Armed Forces have today.”

#14681086
Tainari88 wrote:That fantasy of having a 'middle class' life. A life way out of reach for a whole lot of people. Anger. And resentment.


If they want that life they should look at countries which can offer it and how they do it. They would immediately come the the conclusion:

- Free markets
- No Caudillos
#14684930
A perfect example of the useless of resources. They have the finest oil. Which is used for planes. Forests.. territory. Sea. Coke..

Well will a revolution will be good? I hate revolutions. And they usualy bring no good. So I don't see communism/tyrany end there . The drug cartels don't do good either since they break the basis of civilization there. So its all messed up and extremely violent. They need a gradual openess to the free market instead of putting more and more regulations to "delay" the catastrophy.
#14687611
Venezuela's economy has been wrecked by Chávez and now Maduro. Oil prices are three-four times higher than in the 1990's (before the chavista takeover). I conclude what we are seeing is more of the same, human rights abuses and wrecked economy caused by would be communists and their silly ideas.
#14687766
KurtFF8 wrote:Because that worked so well and was a period of stability for Venezuela in the past. :roll:

Well it worked for Chile, which has a median wage of $6.80/hr, compared to Venezuela's $21/week. We're basically seeing in Venezuela what would have happened in Chile had the military not deposed Allende.
#14690649
The idea that Chile and Venezuela have equivalent levels of human capital strikes me as highly dubious, which makes the comparison invalid.

Chile's median wage is not exactly a ringing endorsement of Pinochet either and appears to validate the complaints of the left regarding Chile's extreme inequality.

Not that it matters. Latin America is hopeless anyway.
#14690671
You know as well as I do that Trump won't stop immigration. :lol: He is a businessman and represent businessmen, they are the ones who bring the surplus Labour to the US in their first place. They have a vested interest in increasing the weight of the wage reducing biomass.
#14690772
Dave wrote:The idea that Chile and Venezuela have equivalent levels of human capital strikes me as highly dubious, which makes the comparison invalid.

Venezuela has maybe 3 points less of median IQ than Chile. But any differential is irrelevant, because Venezuela's median wage is 1.7% of Chile's, which is inexcusable.

Chile's median wage is not exactly a ringing endorsement of Pinochet either and appears to validate the complaints of the left regarding Chile's extreme inequality.

Chile is one of the most remote nations in the planet, it has relatively poor human capital (about equivalent to Alaskan Inuits), yet it has experienced steady growth and is continuing to grow -- in contrast to the rest of the continent, which is veering into recession. Chile's rate of inequality is also not abnormally high for the region (nobody ever talks about the fact that social-democratic Brazil actually has slightly more), but its wages are.

The only country in Latin America that's as healthy economically as Chile (yes, a median wage just below our minimum counts as healthy: it's about six times the global average), is Mexico, which is in very close proximity to the US (and thus to cheap American manufactures).

If you're going to contrast Chile vs your own view of a hypothetical German-style planned industrial revolution, you already know my objections to that, but even from your perspective I can tell you that industrial policy doesn't work in Latin America due to the very poor quality of Southern European institutions (this isn't even about IQ, it's cultural. Corruption is pervasive in Louisiana, for example, and the quality of its infrastructure is notoriously poor).

I do not support Trump. In fact, I think he is n[…]

Another record day for FL, cases growing faster th[…]

@wat0n Why did you not quite that text before[…]

that make[s] you a plagiarist. Don't be silly. […]