[Igor Antunov]

These marches and unrest seem to be centered on one city where the opposition has their power base. For the rest of the country it is business as usual.

[MememyselfandIJK]

I stated facts.

Where? You simply stated that I had no knowledge of entrepreneurship and was not worth talking to. I have plenty of knowledge of entrepreneurship (I was training to be an engineer until I switched over to physics).

Thank goodness most in the US reject your extreme far leftist view of the world. The collapse of Venezuela illustrates your view because your view is similar to that of the late Hugo Chavez IE extremely destructive to a society that wishes to advance itself both industrially and politically.

Americans have such a skewed view of the political spectrum. I realize that I am far left, but a "moderate" far left. As defined by the rest of the world, a centrist in the united states would be center-right to right. The dems are center right, and the republicans are right.

I am willing to concede that Chavez made some mistakes. For example, his instance to keep a mostly capitalist economy was a bad idea, pure socialism is the way to go. But give me any communist leader, and I can give you a comprehensive list of positives that he/she contributed to society.

These marches and unrest seem to be centered on one city where the opposition has their power base. For the rest of the country it is business as usual.

Yes. I am sure there is plenty of opposition and plenty that the government needs to fix. However, you are correct in saying that it is probably overstated by the US media.

[stephen50right]

[jimjam]

I didn't mean to criticise the welfare Americans have available to them. I was just giving the perspective of a British social democrat (progressive) who was born in an NHS hospital and had the oppourtunity to attend higher education for peanuts. Is medicare basically universal healthcare (single payer) for the elderly? You could expand that to younger generations instead of starting from scratch.
_____________

I also attended higher education for peanuts via a state scholarship. Ended up owing $350 on a 4 year degree . Medicare was passed about 50 years ago under a Democrat administration back when the federal government actually functioned and got things done. It is essentially single payer for the elderly. Expanding it to younger generations makes common sense but, as I said, things have changed greatly in 50 years and, today, there is zero chance getting this done. Look at the pathetic efforts to replace Obamacare. Yassir folks you will all have wonderful health care as long as you don't have pre existing conditions and fall into such and such income bracket and maybe the state you live in wants blah blah and etc.

In any event, thanks to what the Democrats got done 50 to 80 years ago before the plutocracy tightened it's grip, we still have a decent mix of socialism and capitalism in America today ........ imho .

[AFAIK]

What do you think of European style socialism?

[jimjam]

What do you think of European style socialism?

I really cannot say as I am not very familiar with it. My sense is that economics in general is less predatory in Europe than it is in America. The so called conservatives in America, these days, tend to go into a hysterical fit if a government policy demonstrates even the slightest hint of compassion. Compassion = socialism/communism. God forbid the richest country in history should give a break to anyone other than millionaires/billionaires. It hasn't always been such in America. As I said, 50 or 80 years ago we got social security and medicare passed which helps out the non plutocrats immensely.

[skinster]

► Show Spoiler

https://twitter.com/oulosP/status/872878688626462721

[Tainari88]

Stephen said:

If the whole healthcare and financial system collapses, then nobody gets any benefit from it. Not "poor people", not "old seniors", not "widows", not anybody. Trump is trying to setup a new system whereby our medical care and economy is healthy and vibrant for the long term.

Where do you get your logic Stephen? The financial and health care systems are based on capitalism. In fact, there are laws that don't allow companies who are doing business to use systems outside of for profit. There are laws regulating profit businesses and non profit business. They have separate rules but they all exist in a largely capitalist system. The purpose of having mixed economies that the USA has currently is that they take taxes from rich individuals and corporations and invest it in the form of government taxes and then dole it out to the 50 states for them to use for public works such as highways, infrastructure, public clinics and hospitals, public schools, food stamp programs, social security programs, etc. Why do they do this? Because the alternative in the past that is about privatization of everything largely led to a few people benefitting from the system and the majority of the people not getting ahead at all. Raw capitalism exists in Mexico, Latin America and in many nations of Asia and Africa. The nations running on capitalism with no benefits cause EXTREME poverty and lack of opportunity. No social mobility and or stability. It destabilizes societies to the point that many poor people in those nations migrate. They leave the country. People migrate in general not because they love or hate socialism or love or hate capitalism---but because they can't make a living in that nation. Or there is war or the threat of violence or persecution. Those are usually the top reasons for fleeing one's native society.

Let us see what would happen if the conditions that the poorest of Venezuelans had to deal with (which led to Hugo Chavez Frias being elected by popular vote in Venezuela check out Oliver Stone's and Jesse Ventura's interviews with Larry King when many claimed it was a fraud filled election...it was not. Chavez won because most Venezuelans who voted and finally had a state issued ID voted and they were not voting for the same old politicians who did nothing for the poor in their neighborhoods or rural little towns in Venezuela ),were 'reproduced' in the USA? Currently the USA has many people who depend exclusively on military pensions, police fund pensions and union labor pensions, etc plus social security benefits to live on. You eliminate ALL of it. ALL of it. Tell them, "You are not working and drawing a salary with the sweat of your brow. Go back to work to get rent or mortgage money, food, etc. I don't care how old you are or how many years you worked before. I don't care how much you lost in the stock market crash of 2008. If you can't work and be productive you are a burden on capitalist society. The larger pool of workers owes you NOTHING. That is socialism. It is awful. The Devil's work. Capitalism works. You don't need any other system. If you can't pay for your kids education from your salary? Tough cookies. No education. If you can't pay for your medical bills and drugs from your local pharmacy chain? Tough cookies. DIE. If the rent is too high in your city for your measly salary? Too bad. You did not study a profession that paid well. You are stuck. To hell with any kind of pooled resource of income from many workers contributing. I believe in raw hide individualistic it is all about me only capitalism. And that is what makes America great. Not the socialism."

It is going to go over like it did with the Chavez supporters in Venezuela with his Simon Bolivar based Revolucion. They said (the Venezuelan poor did) that the rich elite and the petrol capitalists and etc. did not share a damn thing with the ghetto dwellers and no real progress for the majority of the Venezuelans. Most Venezolanos are POOR as hell. They are Venezuela. Not the rich elite from Caracas and Barquisimeto, etc. No. So the answer to that lack of sharing the wealth over many generations was to burn the butt of the elite. Do you think it would not happen here in the USA if you did what I posed for you to propose to the average American voter over time? How long do you think it would take for the American worker types in the this nation to rebel and get violent if you cut off any source of income when they are unemployed, ill, disabled, retired, and bar access to their kids from getting free education and rent controlled or free housing and benefits like food coupons? How long do you think it would take? 1 year? 4 years? 25? Before they want to kick some ass to survive from the idiots who are doing extremely well and are very comfortable and don't care about the poor? You let me know. I am all ears Stephen.

[Tainari88]

I see Steve gave you the "off topic" dodge. He'll do that if things don't look too good .Myself, I am a capitalist. I am in favor of capitalism but against predatory capitalism. I think America has a pretty good balance between capitalism and socialism presently. Thanks to FDR I get a nice social security check every month and thanks to LBJ I have amazing medical care that will not bankrupt me. Am I a communist parasite? I think not. For 35 years I worked, paid taxes and supported myself. Is it such a horrible thing to give old folks a break during the final chapters? I hope not.

How are you jimjam? So you support capitalism? I am not a fan of the system. It breeds by and large selfish, individualistic people who are not very good at sharing. Something you are taught is essential to getting along with others in kindergarten...."Now, little Jim or little Stephen, you need to share your toys and snacks with little Communist Maria and Ernesto or you will have a little revolution because only the rich kids in kindergarten get all the good stuff." None of this stuff is that complicated to understand but somehow it becomes very hard for many. Adults all of them tend to avoid realizing the most simple explanations are the best. Occam's Razor.

Big hug and a kiss for you jimjam. I missed you!

[jimjam]

How are you jimjam? So you support capitalism? I am not a fan of the system. It breeds by and large selfish, individualistic people who are not very good at sharing. Something you are taught is essential to getting along with others in kindergarten...."Now, little Jim or little Stephen, you need to share your toys and snacks with little Communist Maria and Ernesto or you will have a little revolution because only the rich kids in kindergarten get all the good stuff." None of this stuff is that complicated to understand but somehow it becomes very hard for many. Adults all of them tend to avoid realizing the most simple explanations are the best. Occam's Razor.

Big hug and a kiss for you jimjam. I missed you!

Please do not overlook, when I say that I support capitalism, the caveat that I added. I am against predatory capitalism. Any political bent will tend to go to an extreme if left unchecked. This drift toward extremes seems to be a feature of human nature. Examples abound: alcoholism, drug addiction, love gone strange, etc. Extreme capitalism will drill people into poverty, sickness and death so that a few may have absurd wealth. Capitalism needs laws to protect it from it's bad angels so that it does not benefit the few to the exclusion of the many. Extreme capitalism led to the great depression when along came FDR to initiate mitigating laws many of which exist to this day. Communism too has features which I admire but it, too, can be corrupted by the human tendency toward extremes.

I see you got into a tangle with Steve50. I suspect he suffers from the arrogance of youth and noticed that he has not shown up since being reprimanded for bad behavior. Frequently tough guys with all the answers are overly sensitive.

I admire your good heart and missed you also. I smiled when I saw your "name" recently. We must frequent different forums these days. See you around.

[MememyselfandIJK]

@jimjam @Tainari88 Fair points. Nice to have a couple of centrists around PoFo these days to keep the forums generally clean.

I prefer the more communist side, but I am more of the libertarian side because substituting Robber Barons for Communist Dictators hardly helps with the problem in the first place.

[Tainari88]

I prefer the more communist side, but I am more of the libertarian side because substituting Robber Barons for Communist Dictators hardly helps with the problem in the first place.

Who said I was a centrist? I am an international socialist who studied communism for many years. Nothing moderate or centrist about me. I also know a lot about Chavez and Venezuelan politics. By culture and also by studying it. There are a very large contingent of Communists and International Socialists in Latin America. They just don't write in English. I do.

Nice to meet you. You sound like a unique poster.

[Rugoz]

So you support capitalism? I am not a fan of the system. It breeds by and large selfish, individualistic people who are not very good at sharing.

70+ years of communism bred the oligarchs and the Mafia that runs the Kreml today. Add to that misogyny, racism and excessive alcohol consumption. People don't change just because the ruling class considers itself to be progressive.

[skinster]

[Hong Wu]

https://twitter.com/BenjaminNorton/status/874471775509372928

Notice how thin most of these people are in the pictures meant to vilify them. It's not like recent American protests where the looters or protestors are muscular, fat and so-on. I've read that the average Venezuelan has lost about 15 pounds and the government is rationing out flour.

But the supposedly victimized government worker and his apparent wife are muscular and fat.

[skinster]

Interview With two American journalist who visited the country recently, on Venezuelan opposition & attacks on journalism

[Zionist Nationalist]

Fuck venezuela and socialism

another terrorist supporting country got what its deserve

[Tainari88]

Tell that to all the Israelis who believe in kibutz and communes and 'sharing' their wealth with other Jewish nationals of Israel. Don't pool the resources and have fine benefits. Do it rawhide capitalistic ways like they do in the African nations and in many more. It is guaranteed to lead to either mass exodus or some kind of semi fascism right wing stupidity and wars.

[skinster]

Today

[Zionist Nationalist]

sure Venezuela is just haven on earth

Tell that to all the Israelis who believe in kibutz and communes and 'sharing' their wealth with other Jewish nationals of Israel.

there are almost no more kibbutz in Israel
fortunately socialism is diminishing here