Residente and AOC converse about Election 2020 and Puerto Rico - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15085661
Well Pofoers, the news is that Trump is not interested in helping Puerto Rico out at all.

And the airports can't be closed in Puerto Rico. Some NYC residents are cashing in on the cheap flights to the island and avoiding the massive issue in the state of New York with Corona virus. The local government is not allowed to close its borders and airports like other states. It is posing a health hazard in Puerto Rico.

The discussion is in both English and Spanish. Residente prefers Spanish and AOC in English.

#15085848
colliric wrote:Puerto Rico should be a State.

Shameful really.


Darling Colliric, you did not watch the Last colony video about the statehood scene and the independence scene and the status quo but with more rights scene.

Get some popcorn and watch it. Q found it informative and interesting.

I am pro independence for all the reasons stated in the video. The statehood politicians have terrible corruption scandals and the last elected governor of Puerto Rico was ousted by mass (million plus protestors). So the statehood people are terrible and have a really bad reputation in tatters at this point.

I find the independence option far more dignified Colliric.

I want to keep speaking Spanish as a Puerto Rican. I am not interested in losing that language. And it will be lost if statehood happens for the island. Donald Trump stated no statehood for Puerto Rico. He said no to that. For sure.

It won't ever be passed while he is in office. He even voted against helping Puerto Rico when Hurricane Dorian threatened Puerto Rico recently. BEFORE the hurricane even passed us by. He said, "No help for them." Let them die? Is that what he wants? If that is the case? What are Puerto Ricans waiting for? Islands can become independent nations. Even Palau got independence.

It is time to realize what has to happen.

Got to take complete responsibility for Puerto Rican society and be responsible for our own nation Colliric. Because no one else will ever do that for us. We will have many failures and pain and mistakes and problems. But in the end? That is necessary for success and growth.

Time to take risks and just do it!

La Independencia de Puerto Rico! Somos los hijos de la libertad.

Like the song says Colliric? The children of freedom. It was written by a Puerto Rican musician of great fame in Latin America. Rafael Herrnandez. He wrote "Lamento Borincano" and --in the lyrics he says, you shall be beautiful, no matter the TYRANT that treats you with black evil. You are PRECIOSA (this song below), beautiful to the children of freedom. I love you Puerto Rico! We love our language, our history, our culture and our families, we want freedom and growth and security. But you can't get it being a colony. It won't ever happen. People need to realize that without struggle and hard work, and pain and sacrifice and failures and taking hard risks? There is NO PROGRESS.

That is the song. I feel like listening to it Colliric!



A patriotic song from a great Puerto Rican composer and musician/singer. Hernandez wound up marrying a Mexican lady and had children with her and his great-grandchildren and grandchildren still live there. Rafael Hernandez' music was wildly popular all over Latin America but most especially in Mexico. Javier Solis still has one of the most famous versions of that man Rafael Hernandez. ;)
#15085955
colliric wrote:I admit I have less knowledge about this than you. I would support your position.

I would support whichever position gives them a better chance at life.


I know you would colliric. Ironically all the Puerto Rican politicians like AOC, Nydia Velazquez and others in the congress of the USA are all for the independence option. Not one of the congresspeople of Puerto Rican heritage that can vote within the USA congress is pro statehood. Not one. Not even retired congressman from Chicago Luis Gutierrez.

All of them are not for statehood. They can vote in the USA on the house floor. The statehood party has been unable to get a conservative pro statehood Puerto Rican elected to any office in the USA that has the actual power of the vote. Why?

Stateside Puerto Ricans live in communities that tend to be very poor. They live alongside Black communities and immigrant communities. They are mostly working class, lower middle class and middle class. They are not in any huge significant numbers the elite in the USA and probably never will be. The Puerto Ricans who make it into government into positions of power? Like Sonia Sotomayor and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez are rare and both of them are not pro statehood.

My husband @colliric asked the governor of Puerto Rico a long time ago who was advocating statehood for Puerto Rico at the time--he asked him this simple question full of powerful truth---and it is the same truth as why there aren't voting politicians who are Puerto Rican in the USA that advocate statehood. My husband asked Carlos Romero Barcelo of the PNP party--if Puerto Rico's economic problems could be solved simply by becoming a state? Then why do stateside Puerto Ricans do so badly in the USA? And why do island Puerto Ricans don't like how the New York Puerto Ricans come back to the island with zero Spanish and without success?

My husband was pointing out the problem that no one wanted to discuss. Puerto Ricans do poorly in the USA society. They actually at the time did far better in their own island. Speaking their own language and not assimilating to the states. In the class conscious society a mixed race, Spanish-speaking nation with a totally different history and with little possibilities of climbing out of poverty in such a racist and intolerant society based on capitalism and competition? Dominated by concepts of disdain for any people who are part African or are living in the Black neighborhoods of the USA? Colonized? They never solve the problem Colliric.

The Americas were colonized by major European powers. Just like Australia was colonized by England or the UK. All of the Caribbean islands and the Spanish speaking and Portuguese speaking lands of Latin America were colonized by Spain or Portugal. The USA by England. Canada by England and France. That is reality. The people whom they dragged in chains to work for free on the sugar cane plantations, pineapple plantations, coffee plantations, cacao plantations, etc were never respected at all. Their human rights violated. Slavery was last abolished in 1899 in Brazil. A very long time later. It has a long shadow that history. History shapes us all Colliric. It shapes us all. No time for denials and not owning up to what forces shape policy and attitudes in societies and in governments either.

The USA contrary to painting itself a paradise of respecting self determination, human rights and freedom? Never gave a damn thing to any of its people who came from a past of oppression. The USA went to war with Spain in the Spanish American war in order to loot and steal what it could of Spain's last possessions in the Americas. It was used to the stealing in that historical time period. You had Walker in Nicaragua (declaring himself the dictator of Nicaragua for the USA), you had the USA in the early 20th century encouraging and backing and directly helping create a civil war in Colombia in order to strip Panama away from Colombia in order to have the Panama Canal happen. The Panamanians still have controversies with the USA gov't about that.

The reality is that Carlos Romero Barcelo got flustered with my husband's question back then (1980). He was trying to sell a bed of roses image of what a state is going to look like for Puerto Ricans. Acceptance of our Spanish language. Our large percentage of Spanish, Taino and West African bloodlines, our incredibly Latin American ethos and idiosyncrasies and our way of doing things. The USA had trouble even accepting African Americans who were full constitutional citizens and who spoke English only from cradle to grave. The USA has had a love and hate relationship with the African American community and the immigrants too. Since the 1960's in the USA colliric, there have been many more immigrants from Latin America than from Europe or other places.

Australia for a long time did not accept large amounts of people from Asia. Why? That colonial past. Where the boss had to be from the UK. The ones running the society had to be European descent only.

The USA might reconcile its ugly racist past, just like Australia might. Meanwhile it is a battle.

The USA is a 330 million plus person MASS of humanity. I really am not naive that if Puerto Ricans live there for another hundred years being granted statehood and full rights that we are going to be living the high life and be the elite and the ones setting the rules. No. That won't happen. Look how badly the many of that nation reacted to a half black and half white president in the White House for eight years? The birther movement that Trump set up in order to question Barack Obama's American citizenship is symptomatic of a greater problem. Black people are not legitimately acceptable as equals in that society. They are not. Do you think Puerto Ricans will be? We have a history that goes back farther than the founding 13 colonies. It goes back to 1493. It was shaped by Spain. With blood and tears and problems. For hundreds of years BEFORE the USA even made an appearance promising us freedom and independence. They never did it Colliric. They never gave us our freedom. They gave the Phillipines their freedom. After bloody wars and problems. Cuba had lost emormous amounts of people led by Jose Marti trying to liberate Cuba from Spain. Every nation who is now FREE and independent had to pay a terrible price for it. Including the USA. Trying to get the Empires off your back is a very diffcult thing.

But you got to make it happen. If you don't? You won't have the right to something very important. The right to claim all of your nations great successes, victories and achievements, and all of its mistakes. Mistakes that help you grow and become better. Become the nation you always had the potential to be.

Independence is about as a basic human need as can be imagined. Parents want their kids to be independent. Why? So they are strong when they are adults and can survive this world on their feet with dignity and strength with the skills they need to have the ability to lead their own lives, make their own choices and shape their futures and their own worlds. Just like nations need that.

That is all. I hope you see the video.
#15085965
Donna wrote:AOC is great, I hope we can see her in the Senate at some point.


The senate is a tight group. Sanders was the only declared socialist to make it there.

AOC is a declared socialist.

Let us see how many socialists make it to the rare stratosphere of the senate?

The USA decimated its true left a long time ago. Rebuilding it all will take Herculean efforts.

Puerto Rico has always had socialist senators. Always.

I worry for AOC, I truly think if she gets more power with time? She will become a growing threat and I think someone will attempt killing her. I really do.

I find the far Right all over the world but especially in the USA are violent lunatics of the worst sort Donna.

Get some nasty, horrible, crazy nut.

Sometimes I think she should remain in congress and build her base of young enthusiastic political activists.

Her father would be so proud of her.

People call her dumb Donna. She is not in the least.

She is young and inexperienced with how bad that shit gets in those political arenas. But she will find out. If she survives the senate? And has enough backing from the many? She could accomplish what she wants.

But? Her opposition is about hatred and fear. I have no idea how much of it might be life threatening.

She is a beauty. So many Puerto Rican intelligent women I have known in my life.

Many. Alexandra Lugaro is another intelligent one. She is picking up momentum. She has a good platform but I don't know isf she can break through?

Alexandra Lugaro. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. I am wondering about the the Alex names eh Donna? Beautiful, smart, educated, Puerto Rican pro independence representatives. Puerto Rico and our beautiful women? I will never stop loving them.
#15085966
Tainari88 wrote:The senate is a tight group. Sanders was the only declared socialist to make it there.

AOC is a declared socialist.

Let us see how many socialists make it to the rare stratosphere of the senate?

The USA decimated its true left a long time ago. Rebuilding it all will take Herculean efforts.


Indeed, but I don't think the negative connotations associated with socialism are as meaningful in the US as they used to be because the political right has expanded the accusation of socialism or communism to the point of absurdity; it rallies the right-wing base and their fringe leadership, but for most people it just desensitizes them to the idea of socialism if they begin to believe that only raging lunatics are opposed to it. The ability of Sanders to penetrate deeply into the Democratic primaries in two consecutive cycles would suggest that the Cold War is over in the minds of the electorate.
#15085967
Donna wrote:Indeed, but I don't think the negative connotations associated with socialism are as meaningful in the US as they used to be because the political right has expanded the accusation of socialism or communism to the point of absurdity; it rallies the right-wing base and their fringe leadership, but for most people it just desensitizes them to the idea of socialism if they begin to believe that only raging lunatics are opposed to it. The ability of Sanders to penetrate deeply into the Democratic primaries in two consecutive cycles would suggest that the Cold War is over in the minds of the electorate.


Alexandra Lugaro is one of the candidates in Puerto Rico. She is building a base up. It is composed of many different people. She is heavy into gay rights and equality, legalizing marijuana, individual rights but also above all anti corruption and misuse of public funds. She also thinks it is time to kick out the USA. Pro independence. She is not a socialist. Mixed economy person.

She is an atheist too. Which in Puerto Rico used to mean dead in the water politically. But? Not anymore. She has momentum. Look at this great speech in San Juan she gave recently Donna?

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