The War on Cuba Part I and II - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15166948
The war on Cuba an interesting angle through a Cuban journalist:





People thought in Cuba things were getting better too. And Fidel is dead for various years now. Diaz Canel is the president. How are things going to improve eh? Mexico has a lot of Cubans coming to this city I live in. I talk to them every day. It is great to get a different perspective on this important island nation.

Do you think Cuba should be opened up for normal relations with the USA? Will Biden be like Obama? What do you think?

A lot of international trade is only allowed in USA dollars and or their allies' currency. How does it affect nations who are not part of international banking?
Last edited by Tainari88 on 16 Apr 2021 00:26, edited 1 time in total.
#15166969
They won't. It is not really about the death of Fidel or his brother Raul dying either someday. It is about not allowing the USA to make Cuba another Puerto Rico and dominate the markets and force monopolies, allowing the IMF and debt and dominate the markets in Cuba. They want to make it a client state of the USA. It is logical because Cuba is only 90 miles away. If they can get 11 million more people to consume as much as the Puerto Ricans but with three and a half times more population and a lot more land and ability to make profits? It is best. It is about taking back an old Monroe doctrine, Platt amendment scene.

Just take back what was once theirs. Imperialism again. Unfortunately the American gov't had the opportunity to make Puerto Rico a perfect reflection of economic prosperity, great health care, sponsored everything and make it like they spouted in the fifties, "The showcase of capitalist investment in the Caribbean via the USA." Did they make it an example to convince the Cubans to open the doors wide open? To American citizens and relations with American government? No. The island of Puerto Rico is in disrepair, disorganization with a unelected panel of bankers making all the decisions of the economy in PR. So Havana sees that and it means they can't trust the USA to keep their word. Not even with islands that are filled with USA citizens since 1917. It is a bad and failing policy they have. But the USA imperialism actions are not getting better.
#15166979
Tainari88 wrote:They won't. It is not really about the death of Fidel or his brother Raul dying either someday. It is about not allowing the USA to make Cuba another Puerto Rico and dominate the markets and force monopolies, allowing the IMF and debt and dominate the markets in Cuba. They want to make it a client state of the USA. It is logical because Cuba is only 90 miles away.

If that was their primary intention then logically they would open trade again after all this time.
#15166981
Unthinking Majority wrote:If that was their primary intention then logically they would open trade again after all this time.

The Cuban far right vote delivers Florida to the Republicans. Usually. But that is changing Más Canosa the dead one still has his supporters.

@Unthinking Majority My cell phone is
not letting me type in English. Spanish and My French is overriding allá My texto
Pain in the butt.
#15166998
Tainari88 wrote:Unfortunately the American gov't had the opportunity to make Puerto Rico a perfect reflection of economic prosperity, great health care, sponsored everything and make it like they spouted in the fifties, "The showcase of capitalist investment in the Caribbean via the USA." Did they make it an example to convince the Cubans to open the doors wide open? To American citizens and relations with American government? No. The island of Puerto Rico is in disrepair, disorganization with a unelected panel of bankers making all the decisions of the economy in PR. So Havana sees that and it means they can't trust the USA to keep their word. Not even with islands that are filled with USA citizens since 1917. It is a bad and failing policy they have. But the USA imperialism actions are not getting better.


I'm sorry Ms. T but I must disagree with you on this one. Here is undisputable evidence that the USA represented by Fat Donald has nothing but Puerto Rico's best interests front and center:
Image

ps …. I have just started reading The Devil's Chessboard by David Talbot which reports on the CIA's secret government established under the leadership of Allen Dulles. His success in murdering J.F.K. and his failure in failing to take over Cuba by force.

Surprise surprise …. it was not L.H.Oswald who put JFK's brains on the street but none other than possibly America's greatest traitor, Allen Dulles. JFK's crime? Not taking orders from Dulles.
#15167000
jimjam wrote:I'm sorry Ms. T but I must disagree with you on this one. Here is undisputable evidence that the USA represented by Fat Donald has nothing but Puerto Rico's best interests front and center:
Image

ps …. I have just started reading The Devil's Chessboard by David Talbot which reports on the CIA's secret government established under the leadership of Allen Dulles. His success in murdering J.F.K. and his failure in failing to take over Cuba by force.

Surprise surprise …. it was not L.H.Oswald who put JFK's brains on the street but none other than possibly America's greatest traitor, Allen Dulles. JFK's crime? Not taking orders from Dulles.



Trump is just part of a series of American imperialism on display. It started with the Spanish American war, a fine video. Just put Fat Donald's paper towel throwing in Guaynabo at the end... :D

#15167010
First video. There is a lot of nonsense catchphrases that are nonsense. For instance:
"We are suffocating the private sector"
And in the context of the video, it seems that apparently, the "el bloqueo" (the embargo) is at fault.
This is ridiculous. This is conveniently anachronistic. It was Fidels policies, and his goverment's overreach on privatizing industries that started to bleed the Cuban economy. To such degree, that it was 1994 when Cuba goverment allowed citizens to start making "improvised restaurants" that received the name of paladars (in general, the "paladar" consisted of a portion of a "private residency" that a family will put an improvised restaurant in a portion of that family's house, say living room for instance. They were limited, if I remember correctly to 12 chairs (approximately 3x 4 people tables...) although clearly most people had means to circumvent this (aka, paying the "inspectors" to look the other way. an inspector would happily say "there is nothing to look at here")
Furthermore, until after Fidel's death, just about 10 years back, most private enterprises in cuba other than restaurants and renting your rooms in your house, taxi, were mostly forbidden.
It wasn't the embargo... hell no, it was the cuban goverment.

This is one of the 2 main reasons why I don't think Cuba will change anytime soon. People don't fuking want to accept that they are wrong.

Businesses have been burned way too many times trying to invest in Cuba.
The embargo has not prevented businesses to work with cuba... ever heard about Melia Cohiba? Is it a Cuban brand Melia? No... it is spanish company.
Airfrance used (idk if they still do it as of today) to rent planes to Cubana de Aviacion, I think they were DC-10 planes if I remember correctly.
I personally bought and ate hundreds of packages of ground turkey coming from the US by brand Jennie-O. Not in some sort of black market or smuggled or anything. This was on government-run stores!

All of this is mostly nonsense and propaganda. You cannot fix anything of what is going on in Cuban unless you first accept what the problem is. So long as Cuba keeps blaming everyone else except for their backwards stupid system, so long as they choose to be blind... it won't get fixed. And we saw the same shit play in Venezuela... Venezuela didn't have an embargo, and... it had plenty of natural resources. Now, we are not going to pretend life was nice and dandy before Hugo Chavez either... but I'd like you to try to defend that Venezuela is doing better now than it was before.

Watch the first video at 7:30. A few months ago we had similar discussion with another Cuban Fanatic in this forum. The topic... Cuban' medical powerhouse. At minute 7:30... the lady is trying to get refill of Metformin, Lisinopril, Warfarin.... and the pharmacy's clerk is saying "no, no, no" meanwhile you can see the background of the pharmacy is empty. This is not some cutting age medication, this is not a biologic med... this is a 50-year-old med that lost the patent 20 years ago. What about warfarin? This med is 70+ years old! These are not expensive medications, Lisinopril is 5$ in amazon for 30d supply, metformin is sometimes given by pharmacies in the US by free! yes! FREE, pubix gives it for free (ofcourse they also sell you pepsi which is the reason why you need metformin to begin with :lol: , but thats another topic). And Ibuprofen? They don't fking carry Ibuprofen in a pharmacy in cuba? 1000 pills in amazon for $15 usd.... Offcourse, $5 and 15$ might seem like a lot of money for cubans that make like 30$ on a full month working for the goverment... but this is yet another failure of Cuba's system.

Anyhow, not long ago some people that shall remain unamed were praising how cuba were developing vaccine for covid and treatment with interferon and who remembers what other nonsense... meanwhile... the most basic meds ever cannot be filled by regular cubans. Meanwhile, the cuban goverment is sending their scarce doctors to honduras, nicaragua and papanewguinea. Ever been on a plane? Put your oxygen mask first before helping the people sitting next to you. Especially if the reason you are "helping" the people next to you is flat out to show off.

Or what about the "embargo not allowing certain internet sites in cuba"... You fucking kidding me? Until recently the vast majority of cubans din't even have access to the internet. Seriously, shortly before I made it to the US, back in the years 2000-2005, only way to get internet in cuba was to illegally pay someone to steal credentials from their firm, and a few lucky people could use dialup to connect very very very very slowly to a c couple of websites, mostly for emails because even pictures take ages on dialup. It was not until their last reform less than a decade ago, that a very limited internet (and expensive) was opened to most cubans. It is NOT the fucking embargo... it is the fucking goverment doing that. Granted, it is a dozen times better than it was just 20 years ago, but it is MILES away from ideal.

Regarding the 2nd Video:
"Part 3"
"We treat our doctors as war heroes"
BULL SHIT
BULLL SHIT
BIG STINKY BULL SHIT.
My mother was one of those doctors... When she decided she wanted to immigrate to reuinite with my grandmother (my mother's mother)... how did being a doctor served her? Oh... by basically preventing her. The process is complicated... but she had to ask for permission to the ministry of health to leave the country. A process that at best takes 5 years, but most cases took up to 10. Hers was quick, took "only" 6 years and it took this "little" because we owned a nice apartment in Havana that the ministry would keep for itself and assign to one of the big bossess... In fact... thats exactly what happened. We used our appartment, a property that was in my family's name for 50+ years, to bribe our way out of that stinky and corrupt place.
My grandfather was also a doctor. He was for many many years the director of one of the most prestigious hospitals in the country. Shortly before he died, he became ill, he was hospitalized in the very same hospital that he used to lead, that he used to teach other. The doctors that treated him were at some point in the past either colleagues or even students under my grandfather's tutelage. He was a very well respected person and perhaps more relevant in this case, a very well respected doctor. By all measurements, he was a VIP in that hospital. I don't want to recall the specifics of the "care" he received while hospitalized, I will only surmise that it was woefully inadequate, sub-par and discussing. Cuban "medicine" is a fucking like. This "we treat our doctors as war heroes" maybe she was not clear enough, maybe she means "we treat our doctors like we would treat the war heroes of the enemy we just defeated" perhaps that would be more accurate :lol: .

"we feel confidence in cuban medicine" says someone in Part 3... Except, as we saw in part 1, pharmacies in cuba don't carry medicine :lol: See the fucking contradiction? There is nothing to be confident about, it doesn't exist! is a fucking illusion.

At the end of part 3, she says (and I paraphrase)
"some say it is not the blockade's fault but the government, if true, why don't they take the blockade away"

First, let me bring forth that I do not support the embargo at all. Never did. I didn't support it when I was in cuba, didn't support it when I came here, didn't support it 5 years ago, and don't support it now. I disagree with her premise that it is the reason why cuba sucks today... it is not, it is not even in the top 3 reasons. Removing the blockade is not going to make any favors to cuba. The main reason I support removing the embargo is so that they cannot offer this excuse anymore. Although I garantee they will shift into "well... there is no blockade now... but we had it for 70 years so thats the reason why we still suck" and in another 70 years they will be still complaining about the stupid embargo. It is a fucking propaganda machine.

Pay attention, this is propaganda.


How are things going to improve eh?

They are not.
Don't fall for the mirage.
#15167016
XogGyux wrote:At the end of part 3, she says (and I paraphrase)
"some say it is not the blockade's fault but the government, if true, why don't they take the blockade away"

First, let me bring forth that I do not support the embargo at all. Never did. I didn't support it when I was in cuba, didn't support it when I came here, didn't support it 5 years ago, and don't support it now. I disagree with her premise that it is the reason why cuba sucks today... it is not, it is not even in the top 3 reasons. Removing the blockade is not going to make any favors to cuba. The main reason I support removing the embargo is so that they cannot offer this excuse anymore. Although I garantee they will shift into "well... there is no blockade now... but we had it for 70 years so thats the reason why we still suck" and in another 70 years they will be still complaining about the stupid embargo. It is a fucking propaganda machine.

Pay attention, this is propaganda.


And if there was no embargo, they'd claim it's due to CIA sabotage. Like the Venezuelan government claims from time to time.
#15167020
XogGyux wrote:First video. There is a lot of nonsense catchphrases that are nonsense. For instance:
"We are suffocating the private sector"
And in the context of the video, it seems that apparently, the "el bloqueo" (the embargo) is at fault.
This is ridiculous. This is conveniently anachronistic. It was Fidels policies, and his goverment's overreach on privatizing industries that started to bleed the Cuban economy. To such degree, that it was 1994 when Cuba goverment allowed citizens to start making "improvised restaurants" that received the name of paladars (in general, the "paladar" consisted of a portion of a "private residency" that a family will put an improvised restaurant in a portion of that family's house, say living room for instance. They were limited, if I remember correctly to 12 chairs (approximately 3x 4 people tables...) although clearly most people had means to circumvent this (aka, paying the "inspectors" to look the other way. an inspector would happily say "there is nothing to look at here")
Furthermore, until after Fidel's death, just about 10 years back, most private enterprises in cuba other than restaurants and renting your rooms in your house, taxi, were mostly forbidden.
It wasn't the embargo... hell no, it was the cuban goverment.

This is one of the 2 main reasons why I don't think Cuba will change anytime soon. People don't fuking want to accept that they are wrong.

Businesses have been burned way too many times trying to invest in Cuba.
The embargo has not prevented businesses to work with cuba... ever heard about Melia Cohiba? Is it a Cuban brand Melia? No... it is spanish company.
Airfrance used (idk if they still do it as of today) to rent planes to Cubana de Aviacion, I think they were DC-10 planes if I remember correctly.
I personally bought and ate hundreds of packages of ground turkey coming from the US by brand Jennie-O. Not in some sort of black market or smuggled or anything. This was on government-run stores!

All of this is mostly nonsense and propaganda. You cannot fix anything of what is going on in Cuban unless you first accept what the problem is. So long as Cuba keeps blaming everyone else except for their backwards stupid system, so long as they choose to be blind... it won't get fixed. And we saw the same shit play in Venezuela... Venezuela didn't have an embargo, and... it had plenty of natural resources. Now, we are not going to pretend life was nice and dandy before Hugo Chavez either... but I'd like you to try to defend that Venezuela is doing better now than it was before.

Watch the first video at 7:30. A few months ago we had similar discussion with another Cuban Fanatic in this forum. The topic... Cuban' medical powerhouse. At minute 7:30... the lady is trying to get refill of Metformin, Lisinopril, Warfarin.... and the pharmacy's clerk is saying "no, no, no" meanwhile you can see the background of the pharmacy is empty. This is not some cutting age medication, this is not a biologic med... this is a 50-year-old med that lost the patent 20 years ago. What about warfarin? This med is 70+ years old! These are not expensive medications, Lisinopril is 5$ in amazon for 30d supply, metformin is sometimes given by pharmacies in the US by free! yes! FREE, pubix gives it for free (ofcourse they also sell you pepsi which is the reason why you need metformin to begin with :lol: , but thats another topic). And Ibuprofen? They don't fking carry Ibuprofen in a pharmacy in cuba? 1000 pills in amazon for $15 usd.... Offcourse, $5 and 15$ might seem like a lot of money for cubans that make like 30$ on a full month working for the goverment... but this is yet another failure of Cuba's system.

Anyhow, not long ago some people that shall remain unamed were praising how cuba were developing vaccine for covid and treatment with interferon and who remembers what other nonsense... meanwhile... the most basic meds ever cannot be filled by regular cubans. Meanwhile, the cuban goverment is sending their scarce doctors to honduras, nicaragua and papanewguinea. Ever been on a plane? Put your oxygen mask first before helping the people sitting next to you. Especially if the reason you are "helping" the people next to you is flat out to show off.

Or what about the "embargo not allowing certain internet sites in cuba"... You fucking kidding me? Until recently the vast majority of cubans din't even have access to the internet. Seriously, shortly before I made it to the US, back in the years 2000-2005, only way to get internet in cuba was to illegally pay someone to steal credentials from their firm, and a few lucky people could use dialup to connect very very very very slowly to a c couple of websites, mostly for emails because even pictures take ages on dialup. It was not until their last reform less than a decade ago, that a very limited internet (and expensive) was opened to most cubans. It is NOT the fucking embargo... it is the fucking goverment doing that. Granted, it is a dozen times better than it was just 20 years ago, but it is MILES away from ideal.

Regarding the 2nd Video:
"Part 3"
"We treat our doctors as war heroes"
BULL SHIT
BULLL SHIT
BIG STINKY BULL SHIT.
My mother was one of those doctors... When she decided she wanted to immigrate to reuinite with my grandmother (my mother's mother)... how did being a doctor served her? Oh... by basically preventing her. The process is complicated... but she had to ask for permission to the ministry of health to leave the country. A process that at best takes 5 years, but most cases took up to 10. Hers was quick, took "only" 6 years and it took this "little" because we owned a nice apartment in Havana that the ministry would keep for itself and assign to one of the big bossess... In fact... thats exactly what happened. We used our appartment, a property that was in my family's name for 50+ years, to bribe our way out of that stinky and corrupt place.
My grandfather was also a doctor. He was for many many years the director of one of the most prestigious hospitals in the country. Shortly before he died, he became ill, he was hospitalized in the very same hospital that he used to lead, that he used to teach other. The doctors that treated him were at some point in the past either colleagues or even students under my grandfather's tutelage. He was a very well respected person and perhaps more relevant in this case, a very well respected doctor. By all measurements, he was a VIP in that hospital. I don't want to recall the specifics of the "care" he received while hospitalized, I will only surmise that it was woefully inadequate, sub-par and discussing. Cuban "medicine" is a fucking like. This "we treat our doctors as war heroes" maybe she was not clear enough, maybe she means "we treat our doctors like we would treat the war heroes of the enemy we just defeated" perhaps that would be more accurate :lol: .

"we feel confidence in cuban medicine" says someone in Part 3... Except, as we saw in part 1, pharmacies in cuba don't carry medicine :lol: See the fucking contradiction? There is nothing to be confident about, it doesn't exist! is a fucking illusion.

At the end of part 3, she says (and I paraphrase)
"some say it is not the blockade's fault but the government, if true, why don't they take the blockade away"

First, let me bring forth that I do not support the embargo at all. Never did. I didn't support it when I was in cuba, didn't support it when I came here, didn't support it 5 years ago, and don't support it now. I disagree with her premise that it is the reason why cuba sucks today... it is not, it is not even in the top 3 reasons. Removing the blockade is not going to make any favors to cuba. The main reason I support removing the embargo is so that they cannot offer this excuse anymore. Although I garantee they will shift into "well... there is no blockade now... but we had it for 70 years so thats the reason why we still suck" and in another 70 years they will be still complaining about the stupid embargo. It is a fucking propaganda machine.

Pay attention, this is propaganda.



They are not.
Don't fall for the mirage.


@XogGyux I think your criticism is quite good and I believe everything you have said about the problems there. In the end? Cuba needs the embargo lifted. If things don't improve? The government people won't be able to come up with that old excuse eh?

Me? I just love Cubans too much as a culture. So? I want them to get the medications, I want them to get the best artificial limbs and the same variety of drugs for not much expensive costs as a Farmacia Similares in Mexico. Most of the doctors in the consultation rooms next to or inside the farmacia chains in Merida, Yucatan are Cuban ones. I have never gotten such wonderful care.

I want Cubans to get their refrigerators, their stoves, their cars and their solar panels and above all renewable clean sources of energy like el viejito wanted most to have? Without some blockade. I think Cuba may be able to become an independent nation that won't have to be always thinking about avoiding the USA's need to control the Caribbean. It is time for all of us as living in the Americas to give up on controlling without the consent of the governed.

But, I don't think being a colony of the USA is the solution XogGyux. Cuba fought a bloody war for independence and it cost them dearly to be able to stay that way. It also cost the Cuban people a lot in terms of wealth generation always having to 'resolver'.

The only way to resolver is really in the USA's ball court XogGyux. Lift the embargo and allow Cubans to trade and for currency that is tradeable with other nations be opened and be done.

Puerto Rico is going through this now? Bianca discusses it. I don't think Cuba wants wealthy foreign tax dodgers buying up Cuban real estate on the cheap and eventually Cubans doing the same thing they do now when they can't have middle class medical career lives....leave to Florida like the Puerto Ricans do. Hundreds of thousands abandoning nations because the economy is awful is not a solution for Puerto Rico. It is not a solution for Cuba either.
What everyone wants is being able to have a dignified life with enough money to live a decent existence in both countries. Not scrambling to 'resolver como sea' in Cuba--or pay taxes and get paid shit while Crypto currency tax dodgers from California move in and buy everything up and don't give a fuck about the locals.



I think it is time for people to consider democratizing workplaces and putting pressure on rich wealthy people who refuse to make life better for the local people. You can't do it? You get no leverage in that nation-state. Exploitation in not the answer. Neither is having people standing in line to get beans and rice for hours and no basic meds in any place. It is foolish shit. It doesn't work.
#15167023
Rancid wrote:CUBA LIBRE!

Image

VIVA BATISTA who did a helluve job running Cuba with the assistance of :

Meyer Lansky
Image

and Lucky Luciano
Image

At 3:00 a.m. on January 1, 1959, Batista boarded a plane at Camp Columbia with 40 of his supporters and immediate family members and flew to Ciudad Trujillo in the Dominican Republic. Batista took along a personal fortune of more than $300 million that he had amassed through graft and payoffs. Critics accused Batista and his supporters of taking as much as $700 million in fine art and cash with them as they fled into exile.
#15167028
Tainari88 wrote:@XogGyux I think your criticism is quite good and I believe everything you have said about the problems there. In the end? Cuba needs the embargo lifted. If things don't improve? The government people won't be able to come up with that old excuse eh?

Me? I just love Cubans too much as a culture. So? I want them to get the medications, I want them to get the best artificial limbs and the same variety of drugs for not much expensive costs as a Farmacia Similares in Mexico. Most of the doctors in the consultation rooms next to or inside the farmacia chains in Merida, Yucatan are Cuban ones. I have never gotten such wonderful care.

I want Cubans to get their refrigerators, their stoves, their cars and their solar panels and above all renewable clean sources of energy like el viejito wanted most to have? Without some blockade. I think Cuba may be able to become an independent nation that won't have to be always thinking about avoiding the USA's need to control the Caribbean. It is time for all of us as living in the Americas to give up on controlling without the consent of the governed.

But, I don't think being a colony of the USA is the solution XogGyux. Cuba fought a bloody war for independence and it cost them dearly to be able to stay that way. It also cost the Cuban people a lot in terms of wealth generation always having to 'resolver'.

The only way to resolver is really in the USA's ball court XogGyux. Lift the embargo and allow Cubans to trade and for currency that is tradeable with other nations be opened and be done.

Puerto Rico is going through this now? Bianca discusses it. I don't think Cuba wants wealthy foreign tax dodgers buying up Cuban real estate on the cheap and eventually Cubans doing the same thing they do now when they can't have middle class medical career lives....leave to Florida like the Puerto Ricans do. Hundreds of thousands abandoning nations because the economy is awful is not a solution for Puerto Rico. It is not a solution for Cuba either.
What everyone wants is being able to have a dignified life with enough money to live a decent existence in both countries. Not scrambling to 'resolver como sea' in Cuba--or pay taxes and get paid shit while Crypto currency tax dodgers from California move in and buy everything up and don't give a fuck about the locals.



I think it is time for people to consider democratizing workplaces and putting pressure on rich wealthy people who refuse to make life better for the local people. You can't do it? You get no leverage in that nation-state. Exploitation in not the answer. Neither is having people standing in line to get beans and rice for hours and no basic meds in any place. It is foolish shit. It doesn't work.


Look, I'm not going to excuse colonial/imperialist influences of more powerful nations against weaker ones. That being said, constantly blaming others for what it is mostly the cuban's government failure is certainly not going to get anything done for its people. I also want the Cuban people to prosper. I want the haitian people to prosper as well, the puertorican, the mexican, canadian, brittons, etc. But you cannot possibly be surprised if your economy sucks, if everything you hear in the TV/Radio is propaganda about how materialism sucks and you are better off living on a diet of rice and beans and bicycling to work on a 50 year old rusted soviet-era bicycle than falling into the claws of capitalism. Yes... economic growth is wasteful but the alternative puts your population at a disadvantage. I promess you 100% of cubans are familiar with the word "resolver" which in the context of most cubans, it means to "tastefully steal something", and we all did. It is a nation of well-minded thieves, a nation of desperate and in many cases hungry people.
It is a failed experiment. Human race is not ready for anything resembling communism, it wont be for centuries. Furthermore, for the last half century, cuba was not a communist country, it was a dictatorship, if shit belongs to the state, and the state it is a dictatorship/oligarchy... it follows that you cannot possibly have communism (the community/people owns the means of production...) Frankly, it is sad when you see "liberals" defending this nonsense because it is a trap.

Yes, I want the embargo to go away. Hopefully if Biden maintains his approval, or better yet, if he becomes a bit more popular he could spend some political capital eroding at the stupid embargo. Not because I think Cuban's problem will be solved, but because I think more activity/tourism/etc will open the eyes of cubans to the sickness that their goverment was spreading.
I give a tiny bit of credit to Raul castro, I don't think he is as toxic as his infamous late brother, and perhaps there is a tiny chance that change could follow.
But dictators/oligarchs are well aware that when they soften their grip, their people can turn around and bite them in the neck so this could literally be life or death to many of these rulers.
#15167030
XogGyux wrote:Look, I'm not going to excuse colonial/imperialist influences of more powerful nations against weaker ones. That being said, constantly blaming others for what it is mostly the cuban's government failure is certainly not going to get anything done for its people. I also want the Cuban people to prosper. I want the haitian people to prosper as well, the puertorican, the mexican, canadian, brittons, etc. But you cannot possibly be surprised if your economy sucks, if everything you hear in the TV/Radio is propaganda about how materialism sucks and you are better off living on a diet of rice and beans and bicycling to work on a 50 year old rusted soviet-era bicycle than falling into the claws of capitalism. Yes... economic growth is wasteful but the alternative puts your population at a disadvantage. I promess you 100% of cubans are familiar with the word "resolver" which in the context of most cubans, it means to "tastefully steal something", and we all did. It is a nation of well-minded thieves, a nation of desperate and in many cases hungry people.
It is a failed experiment. Human race is not ready for anything resembling communism, it wont be for centuries. Furthermore, for the last half century, cuba was not a communist country, it was a dictatorship, if shit belongs to the state, and the state it is a dictatorship/oligarchy... it follows that you cannot possibly have communism (the community/people owns the means of production...) Frankly, it is sad when you see "liberals" defending this nonsense because it is a trap.

Yes, I want the embargo to go away. Hopefully if Biden maintains his approval, or better yet, if he becomes a bit more popular he could spend some political capital eroding at the stupid embargo. Not because I think Cuban's problem will be solved, but because I think more activity/tourism/etc will open the eyes of cubans to the sickness that their goverment was spreading.
I give a tiny bit of credit to Raul castro, I don't think he is as toxic as his infamous late brother, and perhaps there is a tiny chance that change could follow.
But dictators/oligarchs are well aware that when they soften their grip, their people can turn around and bite them in the neck so this could literally be life or death to many of these rulers.


XogGyux I think the most important thing of all is to have a government that is not corrupt. That is held accountable and is transparent and its central purpose is to serve its citizens. It is a tall order I know. But? If there is no real movement of change for all that is stagnating? There is no progress.

This pandemic is a new opportunity for governments to put some effort behind serving their citizens. In health care, housing, job training, public education, transportation, and everything else that is needed.

BTW XogGyux the Cuban government did not pour money into making those videos at all--it was Danny Glover of Lethal Weapon fame and Oliver Stone who is the son of a Wall Street banker and pro-capitalist. But? He likes taking liberal stances on Latin American political situations.

He likes funding local groups and letting them film things.

It is quite clear that the relationship of US colony is basically morphing into a wealthy person's tax haven if they want to avoid capital gains taxes and other taxes. They tax to death via sales tax among others like the Jones Act from 1920 prohibiting Puerto Rico from doing business with other nations. Cuba is isolated too due to the embargo. So? It is stifling both economies a lot. The solution is to give freedom to both.

I just want progress to happen.

I wonder if in 25 years in the future around 2046? If there will be solar powered or electric cars made in Mexico being sold....with names like Thalia version de XogGyux's little boy. Eh? :D :lol:
#15167034
Tainari88 wrote:XogGyux I think the most important thing of all is to have a government that is not corrupt. That is held accountable and is transparent and its central purpose is to serve its citizens. It is a tall order I know. But? If there is no real movement of change for all that is stagnating? There is no progress.

I agree, i don't like corrupt goverments either, except they are all corrupt. You think Cuba's goverment is not? Don't be naive, in Cuba there is the same hierarchical classes that there are here. Except, it is political power/conections rather than money that gets you higher up in the hierarchical system. You play the game, you get the right conections and you'll do fine. You don't have to have a 400k salary or a 200M trust fund. How else do you get to rule the country for 50 year if not corruption. You think in a democratically election, the same dude will continue to get elected over and over and over even though the country keeps sinking and sinking and sinking? You think Putin would be "democratically elected"? You think Ji Pooh will gets democratically elected? Fidel? Kim jo Un? NO, they are all playing their respective systems, their own corruption. As far as I can tell, the US is slightly better with 2 term limits. It would be even better if limits applied to house/senate and even court.
I beg to differ. There is more progress in "traditionally western countries" such as the US, than in countries like Cuba.

This pandemic is a new opportunity for governments to put some effort behind serving their citizens. In health care, housing, job training, public education, transportation, and everything else that is needed.

No. The pandemic is a stressor and stressors tend to widen the gap. Does economy collapse? Who benefits? Who suffers? Yes, a few rich people might lose a lot of money, perhaps even some affluent "middle class" but by en large it is the poor that gets poorer and the rich do OK or in some cases even boom.

I wonder if in 25 years in the future around 2046? If there will be solar powered or electric cars made in Mexico being sold....with names like Thalia version de XogGyux's little boy. Eh? :D :lol:

Probably not, probably they will get made in china :lol: . And probably in 50 years, in Africa after now rich china no longer wishes to be the factory of the world and seeks for even cheaper place to outsource labor :lol:
I for one, will try to avoid buying chinese crap and do my tiny tiny tiny bit to slow that. For all its defects, I prefer the US over China as the leader of the world.
#15167097
XogGyux wrote:I agree, i don't like corrupt goverments either, except they are all corrupt. You think Cuba's goverment is not? Don't be naive, in Cuba there is the same hierarchical classes that there are here. Except, it is political power/conections rather than money that gets you higher up in the hierarchical system. You play the game, you get the right conections and you'll do fine. You don't have to have a 400k salary or a 200M trust fund. How else do you get to rule the country for 50 year if not corruption. You think in a democratically election, the same dude will continue to get elected over and over and over even though the country keeps sinking and sinking and sinking? You think Putin would be "democratically elected"? You think Ji Pooh will gets democratically elected? Fidel? Kim jo Un? NO, they are all playing their respective systems, their own corruption. As far as I can tell, the US is slightly better with 2 term limits. It would be even better if limits applied to house/senate and even court.
I beg to differ. There is more progress in "traditionally western countries" such as the US, than in countries like Cuba.


No. The pandemic is a stressor and stressors tend to widen the gap. Does economy collapse? Who benefits? Who suffers? Yes, a few rich people might lose a lot of money, perhaps even some affluent "middle class" but by en large it is the poor that gets poorer and the rich do OK or in some cases even boom.


Probably not, probably they will get made in china :lol: . And probably in 50 years, in Africa after now rich china no longer wishes to be the factory of the world and seeks for even cheaper place to outsource labor :lol:
I for one, will try to avoid buying chinese crap and do my tiny tiny tiny bit to slow that. For all its defects, I prefer the US over China as the leader of the world.


You have spoken like a real man!
Take me to your leader!
Well done grasshopper!
#15167105
XogGyux wrote:I agree, i don't like corrupt goverments either, except they are all corrupt. You think Cuba's goverment is not? Don't be naive, in Cuba there is the same hierarchical classes that there are here. Except, it is political power/conections rather than money that gets you higher up in the hierarchical system. You play the game, you get the right conections and you'll do fine. You don't have to have a 400k salary or a 200M trust fund. How else do you get to rule the country for 50 year if not corruption. You think in a democratically election, the same dude will continue to get elected over and over and over even though the country keeps sinking and sinking and sinking? You think Putin would be "democratically elected"? You think Ji Pooh will gets democratically elected? Fidel? Kim jo Un? NO, they are all playing their respective systems, their own corruption. As far as I can tell, the US is slightly better with 2 term limits. It would be even better if limits applied to house/senate and even court.
I beg to differ. There is more progress in "traditionally western countries" such as the US, than in countries like Cuba.


I think the problem is that the US based corporations favor and give the PRC preferred nation status in trade--because they only care about profit over anything else. They are a one note value system. Greed. And that is very very problematic. I don't prefer any nation that keeps Puerto Rico in some thousands of exodus status just so some Crypto pirates can come in and live well and the puertorriquenos are stuck in a ghetto in NYC and Chicago and not living on those beaches at all, because the economy is shot. What kind of Puerto Rican dream is that for them? None. Too many people from Puerto Rico live outside the island. I prefer to raise my child in Mexico's safest city. The second safest city in North America. I don't like my son to stop speaking Spanish and assimilate and believe that the only culture in the world worth imitating is the Anglo one or the one with rappers and calls to my phone about elementary school shootings. A lot of people don't like Mexico. I like the culture here. Since I am older I have what is needed to live here without competing for a job with Mexicans. A lot of Cubans live here. Their chief complaint is low salaries. They want to be able to make a lot higher wages. But Mexican wages are stagnant. They move to the USA for higher pay. Same as the Mexicans, Central Americans and Puerto Ricans do. That is not a long-term solution for nations to have a bunch of Latin Americans moving to the USA all the time with the goal of getting a decent job. Because how many of us are there? A lot. And unless we can fix Cuba's internal problems, Puerto Rico's internal problems or Central America's internal problems?

The constant influx won't stop XogGyux. The USA can't take billions of poor people from all over the world. Forever. Not in today's information age. The long term solution is not paying these nations terrible wages. Capitalism doesn't change its need for low wage exploitation on its own. It never has. It needs people pressuring it into compliance. Being cheerleaders for it is not my perspective. It never will be.

At the same time? I admire you a lot XogGyux. I admire your fortitude in coming as a young man and being educated and working hard and being focused and helping out and dedicating yourself to a profession that is valuable and good. And doing good work.

And I wish you and your family prosperity and a fine home and a nice car and nice vacations and lots of love and happiness. The USA needs good people from all over the world. Cuba has good people. So does Puerto Rico and Mexico and Spain and many others. They just need to have good governments in many nations. The great leap forward is that. Democracy in our nations. ANd in the workplace. And local community control with a lot of privacy rights for individuals.

;) WHen are you going to take a real vacation soon XogGyux?
#15167106
Julian658 wrote:Well done grasshopper!


Image
WINNER ^


Image


Image

LOSER (way cool hat^ :lol: )


jimjam is looking forward to smoking one of his Havana Cohibas under the stars once he breaks out of this rehab hospital
#15167113
jimjam wrote:Image
WINNER ^


Image


Image

LOSER (way cool hat^ :lol: )


jimjam is looking forward to smoking one of his Havana Cohibas under the stars once he breaks out of this rehab hospital


I don't approve of you smoking cigars. Bad for your health and I want you healthy as a horse for a long time Mr. Maine in the summer, and Florida in the winter.

Cuba is changing. I think they approved a bunch of small businesses but no one is coming for tourism due to the pandemic. It has shot all tourism to bits.

I love tourism. I want it coming back strong.

I think one has to study Cuban history. I read a writer who is called Byron Williams. An American who wrote a book on Cuba a long time ago. It was the first one I read since he used to have dinner with my parents and he was a cigar smoker too.

Let me see if I can find his book eh?
https://www.google.com/search?q=Byron+W ... ovGDw-G7HM

Hee hee. I have read about one hundred and fifty books on all aspects of Cuban society.

It is a sad and great history. A sad and happy and great culture. A great cuisine and above all the friendliness and sweetness of Cubans is my great love.

At the same time? They are very authoritarian when they get power. A grave mistake. I have never been into too much control and authoritarianism.

I only put discipline on my children. Adults who are not breaking a just law? Leave them alone. Let them be happy and read what they like listen to any kind of music, and dance and do art and etc.

Another thing I love about Cuba is that like Puerto Rico? It produces a lot of artists. Great ones. Fashion designers, interior decorators, architects, schoolteachers, sculptors, classical music directors, composers, musicians, painters, writers, poets, playwrights, actors, directors, anthropologists, scientists, doctors, and everything in between.

A rich history indeed. The Mexicans in the Yucatan sometimes resent them because they are so educated and they are 'los prepotentes'. The ones who think they are the best at everything. Lol. I don't find them to be that. I would call them confident people. I like that. I always have. ;)
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