The War on Cuba Part I and II - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15167117
jimjam wrote:Image
WINNER ^




LOSER (way cool hat^ :lol: )


jimjam is looking forward to smoking one of his Havana Cohibas under the stars once he breaks out of this rehab hospital


Jim:
Slavoj Zizek, the only socialist in the world that is not a bullshit PC conman has a name for people like you. The typical left leaning European that is riddled with fake guilty feelings that enable him or she to practice condescending racism of low expectations with so-called minorities. Shame on you! Leave poor Cuban people alone! If you want to see what Slavoj thinks of people like you start watching at 4:30 minutes. Sadly the so called minorities embrace the role of the victim and this creates a symbiotic relationship.
#15167125
:D I think you need to go and take some pictures of Cuba when you recover again and go and put them on member pictures @jimjam.

Another interesting video I found Jimjam:




The solution is going to be taxes in which the world's most lucrative corporations become democratized. The AI has to produce more free time for people to be able to have less work. Letting young people be debt free and study work hard and on things they LOVE is the solution. Get up and do something. A very simple concept. Lost with the ability of capitalism to create busywork low paid professions and never investing in talent that is there but without a fat bank account to pay for the access. It is wasteful.

#15167155
Tainari88 wrote: I think you need to go and take some pictures of Cuba when you recover again and go and put them on member pictures


Image

Image

I love children and they seem to love me, which I take as a great compliment ... You cannot fool little kids …… they are so sweet, unspoiled and innocent.

Top pic taken in Cuba ( I LOVE the pigtails)…. lower pic i'm with 3 step granddaughters. :)
#15167225
jimjam wrote:Image
WINNER ^


Image


Image

LOSER (way cool hat^ :lol: )


jimjam is looking forward to smoking one of his Havana Cohibas under the stars once he breaks out of this rehab hospital


This is what concerns me the most out of anything. The idea that "Batista was an evil man, Fidel took his place by force, therefore it follows Fidel is the good guy" is ridiculous. Remember, Batista himself overthrew yet another asshole, Machado so by that simplistic logic then Machado had to be an angel if the evil man took the power from him right? Furthermore, it ignores the possibility that indeed Fidel might have had good intentions but either failed, or became corrupt over the next 50 years.

If you guys got some free time, and like some TV drama. I suggest you watch HBO series Chernobyl. Not only it is good TV and fairly accurate, but it also gives a glimpse of what it is to be a cogwheel in larger machinery in which the top does not care or give a fuck about reality (one of the things that alarmed the crap out of me during Trump's tenure by the way).
#15167241
XogGyux wrote:The idea that "Batista was an evil man, Fidel took his place by force, therefore it follows Fidel is the good guy" is ridiculous.


I do not think that I said that. It is beyond ridiculous ….. it is moronic. The best we can hope for in this life is to get "less bad" leaders in place. The human race is generally hopelessly corrupted by the twin drugs of greed and power. I think Fidel is "less bad" than a disgusting low life who runs away like a thief in the night with sacks of money beaten out of the backs of the people he has driven into misery.

Cuba is a real gem of real estate and, therein, lies the good news and the bad news. The forces of greed will forever be attempting to subjugate and exploit her people. There is, IMO, no way to save Cuba from the cesspool of human consciousness. But, to Fidel's credit, he gave us Cohiba cigars.
#15167272
jimjam wrote:I do not think that I said that. It is beyond ridiculous ….. it is moronic. The best we can hope for in this life is to get "less bad" leaders in place. The human race is generally hopelessly corrupted by the twin drugs of greed and power. I think Fidel is "less bad" than a disgusting low life who runs away like a thief in the night with sacks of money beaten out of the backs of the people he has driven into misery.

Cuba is a real gem of real estate and, therein, lies the good news and the bad news. The forces of greed will forever be attempting to subjugate and exploit her people. There is, IMO, no way to save Cuba from the cesspool of human consciousness. But, to Fidel's credit, he gave us Cohiba cigars.


Less bad initially? Possibly. But the damage he did to the country over his 50+ of nonsense is imense. Granted, it is not possible to imagine what Cuba would be today if the trend of Machado, Batista, Etc of goons would have continued, it could have been worse, it could have been better.
That being said, those Cohiba cigars that you so much like... they are not available to enjoy to the very people that create them. And this is beyond moronic, it is criminal. 8) :lol: You can see behind the curtain of lies. Have you noticed how every speech/ceremony/etc in cuba ends? The words "Patria o Muerte, Venceremos" are uttered every single time (it means "homeland or death, we will win") which paints everything with a hue of fake patriotism. Yes, it is fake because they don't really give a shit about homeland or the people that live there. The goverment sends their doctors to other countries for a quick buck, the good Cohiba cigars are sold to tourists. For a long time cubans didn't even have to opportunity to walk into a Varadero hotel and pay to stay there for a few days (even if they had the money, for instance if a family member in the US sends them $$), cubans couldn't buy cars, they couldn't even sell the car they owned or their house until very recently. This "patria or muerte" is a utter nonsense.
#15167291
XogGyux wrote:
Less bad initially? Possibly. But the damage he did to the country over his 50+ of nonsense is immense.



Why do you think Castro was never overthrown by his own people? We would have supported them generously.

All Castro had to do was point at Latin America and ask his people if they wanted to live like them..

They very much did not.

Now go learn why that was.
#15167292
Granted, it is not possible to imagine what Cuba would be today if the trend of Machado, Batista, Etc of goons would have continued, it could have been worse, it could have been better.

Two words, @XogGyux: 'Puerto' and 'Rico'.
#15167295
late wrote:Why do you think Castro was never overthrown by his own people? We would have supported them generously.

Why do you think Kim Jon Un or Kim II-sung were never overthrown by his own people? We would have supported them generously.
All they have to do is point to some other crappier country and ask his people if they wanted to live like that.

You completely ignore the power of lying, the power of having a cult following, prosecution from the state, control of media, etc.
On a prior post I posted how every celebration/speech/gathering by cuban goverment ends... said "Patria o muerte". But do you know what are the few words that always precede that? "Viva fidel"... It is a cult of personality.
#15167301
XogGyux wrote:LOL, NO.

Why not? Serious question. You think the Mafia was going to release its grip on the Cuban economy? :eh:
#15167313
Potemkin wrote:Why not? Serious question. You think the Mafia was going to release its grip on the Cuban economy? :eh:
Maybe the economy would have grown too large for the Mafia to control (entirely)? Kind of like Las Vegas 
#15167314
XogGyux wrote:
Why do you think Kim Jon Un or Kim II-sung were never overthrown by his own people? We would have supported them generously.




China, and no, that could not have happened.

If you want to enjoy a fantasy, don't let me stop you. But back in the real world, Castro improved the quality of life for most, and those people could remember the corruption and violence of the regime we had supported.

The Cuban people knew what would happen. They didn't want to become the next Guatamala.
#15167317
Potemkin wrote:Why not? Serious question. You think the Mafia was going to release its grip on the Cuban economy? :eh:

Serious question, why does that even matter?
Let's see, mafia still exists in the US, yet it is not even in the top 10 of our problems. Would it make sense to institute a corrupt dictatorship in the US so that perhaps we can get rid of the organized crime?
More importantly, you are operating from a false point of view.
Furthermore, the whole country operates in crime. You want to paint your house and you have the money for it? How do you do it? You go to home depot, you buy 2 large buckets of paint, a couple of brushes and you start painting. How do you do it if you are in cuba? You go to the store, realize they are fuking empty, then you pay your neighbor that "resolvio" the paint buckets where he works.
When you have a palladar "restaurant" and you pay $10 bucks to the inspector so that he looks the other way because you have a license to have 3 tables but in reality you running 6 tables because you cannot feed your kids with only 3 tables... isn't that the exact same racketeering that mafia do?
My family participated with business with the mafia in cuba. Similarly to the mafiosos that sold alcohol during prohibition era... "mafiosos" in cuba sell cow's meet in cuba and this is strictly illegal. Killing a cow in cuba could mean decades in prison if caught, dealing/selling/buying carried similar penalties. Isen't that mafia? That we did that, participated in that? I mean... sure, from your perspective might seem trivial because you are used to go to Kroggers and Wholefoods and buying it no problem, but in cuba that is a crime just like dealing with alcohol was 100 years ago in the US. Being caught with a kilo of red meat in cuba wouldn't be much different than being caught with a kilo of cocaine in the US.
What about when the Government itself behaves like the mafia. What happens if you are a musician talent, an athlete or a doctor and you happen to travel to another country and happen to like it there and want to stay? Well in such cases the government might punish (confiscate property, put sanctions on your family such as travel restrictions, etc) your family back at home for what you did. Isen't that mafia behavior?

So did the mafia really lost its grip? Not really, it just changed hands, we just have a different mafia and in some cases it is the government itself.
#15167326
@XogGyux do you think that the solution to poverty and not having an ability to live a middle class life if you study and work and have an ability to serve the nation, but you are relegated to exile outside the nation? Is a solution to that?

All nations with poverty in their borders can say to themselves? I am packing my bags and leaving. To the USA and the world's most prosperous economy. It is not even doing well housing the homeless.

The solution is improving the lives of the Latin Americans so they don't have to move to the USA. Moving to the USA is very very hard for everyone. Imagine if you had your mother and father and granny and everyone still in Cuba and you by yourself in Florida without their loving support all this time?

Many people have that problem on immigration visas in the USA.

The problem with Puerto Rico is not an immigration problem at all. It is an economic one. Cuba's problems are also economic big time. You might say they have freedom to do this or that. Like what XogGyux? We can't vote and affect politics in the USA. And the only way we can vote is moving out of our land. Leave the land to the American investors, the American government to run it, and the profits to be withheld by being on our land. Basically to be owned and when the economy is bad and the electrical grid is not allowed to be updated or have solar powered generations of energy, water systems to not be functional and have contaminated water, the USA Navy throwing bombs on the beaches and bombs on us too. Depleted uranium causes cancer. They did that for over 60 years. Causing cancer.

Over 5 million Puerto Ricans don't live in Puerto Rico. They had to MOVE OUT. The island only has 3.2 million and more and more Puerto Ricans are leaving every day. The job prospects or investment opportunities are only growing for the upper middle class stateside people and the wealthy like Logan guy from the video. We lost our ability to keep our land. It is going to be in a position to be sold off to wealthy people only and also if we can't find a job that pays enough for the imported inflated food prices, the high gasoline prices, the high real estate prices?

No more HOMELAND for us. Period. The Hawaiian natives are a tiny percentage of the current population of Hawaii.

If Cuba had Puerto Rico's numbers? There would be 7 million Cubans in the USA that could never buy Cuban Real estate because they were priced out and they would be stuck in ghettos in the Eastern seaboard. They would have to have given up all of Cuban land to wealthy investors and people who used Havana for Mafia and tax evasion purposes. And the people would have no right to vote over their own country.

That is not progress. But if you think giving up your independence is worth it for a Samsung fridge and a washing machine? You are not much different than the vulture types who think the only people with the rights to liberty and happiness are the ones with the $$$$$.

We better start coming up with solutions to the people living in poverty, living with crime, living with gentrification, living with lack of political rights.

Because all it does is create an exodus of exiles and people mourning their hometowns, and their families and their cultures. It is making a dark future.

Economic freedom is freedom. For us all. Let us give as much economic freedom to all our nations as possible. TOGETHER.
#15167339
late wrote:Why do you think Castro was never overthrown by his own people? We would have supported them generously.

All Castro had to do was point at Latin America and ask his people if they wanted to live like them..

They very much did not.

Now go learn why that was.


He had plenty of Soviet military advisors around to help him out if necessary. It's not like the hadn't done just that in 1956 in Hungary or that they wouldn't do so in Prague in 1968.
#15167343
MadMonk wrote:Maybe the economy would have grown too large for the Mafia to control (entirely)? Kind of like Las Vegas


This is a very interesting point about Las Vegas. No one really busted up or dismantled the Mafias grip on vegas, it just sort of naturally happened as more and more private entities started to move in. As you said, the economy grew to large to manage. Not like they could go around wacking every corporate CEO moving into Las Vegas.
#15167345
Tainari88 wrote:@XogGyux do you think that the solution to poverty and not having an ability to live a middle class life if you study and work and have an ability to serve the nation, but you are relegated to exile outside the nation? Is a solution to that? .

Well, the is precisely my point. By all accounts, cuba was a middle income country just prior to the revolution. It compared to countries such as Argentina (not guatemala, ecador and haiti like some people like to compare). Along comes this asshole (which I am willing to admit that might have had good intentions initially, I don't dispute that because I didn't live that time and history on this topic is very prone to manipulations), and fucked it up. Today, cuba shouldn't be compared to haiti, honduras and guatemala because that is not the path that cuba was walking 70 years ago.
Where is cuba today? GDP of 100bill according to google, who knows if this is accurate at all since the goverment is so secretive and flat out lies... but even if it is... it is actually lower than Puerto Rico's at 105's. Cuba has 4x the population.... Per capita supposedly it has a 8k GPD. Offcourse, the average Cuban does not make 8K USD, not even in a 100 years, in fact the average cuban cannot even make 1K per year. Seriously, my doctor mother used to make 500 pesos per month which was about 25 USD per month, the whole year would be less than $400 USD. Now... is this a "middle income" country? No fuck NO.

Cuba used to have a solid industry of beef meat production. One day the brilliant genius that Fidel was thought... how about, we switch these meat producing cattle for milk producing ones, that way we can have lots of milk, and then we can still kill them and get meat anyways and kill 2 birds with 1 stone. BRILLIANT... except he fucked up the whole industry despite being warned that this didn't make sense multiple times.
Or that time the goverment decided to introduce a modified version of the claria fish into cuban's environment, that way we can have a rapidly reproducing fish that the cuban people can use to feed themselves... oh well that didn't go well at all, again, despite warnings.

Imagine this, you are the director of a sugar refinery in Cuba. Along comes your boss, a political appointee and he tells you... hey @Tainari88 , how about you crank up the machinery to 110% so we can produce another 5-10% extra sugar this quarter? And you reply... well last year we ended up producing so much sugar we couldnt sell it all, it attracted mouse into our warehouse, furthermore we kind of need to shut down a couple of our big machines for 2 weeks for scheduled maintenance, I don't think it makes sense to try to push production when we don't even know what to do with what we already produce and when our machines are at the brink of being fucked up. And the guy just tells you, well... my boss wants to announce in the assambly that we broke last years record so you will have to figure out how to do it, does not matter if we just throw the sugar into the lake after.
Idiotic discussions such as these happened ALL THE TIME, it is ridiculous.

It is not even doing well housing the homeless.

Look, this is another topic. I don't think the homeless issue is entirely a money/economic one.

Imagine if you had your mother and father and granny and everyone still in Cuba and you by yourself in Florida without their loving support all this time?

I don't understand how this is relevant at all.
If my family was in cuba I would miss them, that wouldn't change the fact cuba is a shithole.

Cuba's problems are also economic big time.

It is not just an economic problem. The economic problem exists because of the political problem. Opening Cuba to international investments/economy would mean to make significant and perhaps more importantly long-lasting changes to the cuban political system.

If Cuba had Puerto Rico's numbers? There would be 7 million Cubans in the USA that could never buy Cuban Real estate because they were priced out and they would be stuck in ghettos in the Eastern seaboard. They would have to have given up all of Cuban land to wealthy investors and people who used Havana for Mafia and tax evasion purposes. And the people would have no right to vote over their own country.

Probably there would be even more. Plenty of cubans desperate to leave but they can't. How many of your fellow puertoricans had to risk their lifes on a raft to get out of puerto rico? How many Elian Gonzalez lost their moms trying to flee your homeland?
This is not a pissing context but if it was I win :lol: . No seriously, the key is perspective.
Furthermore, there is no thread that I am aware of praising of how great the puerto rican goverment is... how puerto rico send their doctors to help honduras and guatemala and how they are a success example for communism.

That is not progress.

Exactly, it is regression. Cuba has not progressed in a long long time. Certainly since the USSR broke it has been downhill for cuba, it has even forced the government to take some reformative steps with very limited success because they are all half measures.

But if you think giving up your independence is worth it for a Samsung fridge and a washing machine?

Really? That is what you understand? What is the value of independence? North Korea is independent, do you think they are better off than Puerto Ricans? Freedom? I have far more freedom in this country than I had in Cuba. Ironically given the sensitive topics discussed in this forum, if I was in cuba I probably couldn't post in here, and if I did it would probably be monitored and I could get in trouble for what I am saying right now. So really? Giving up your independence?

You are not much different than the vulture types who think the only people with the rights to liberty and happiness are the ones with the $$$$$.

Wow, now I am a vulture. Good to know

We better start coming up with solutions to the people living in poverty, living with crime, living with gentrification, living with lack of political rights.

If your solution is to start making the world more like Cuba, count me up as an obstacle.

Economic freedom is freedom. For us all. Let us give as much economic freedom to all our nations as possible. TOGETHER.

The Irony. Tell that to cubans. :knife:
#15167353
XogGyux wrote:Well, the is precisely my point. By all accounts, cuba was a middle income country just prior to the revolution. It compared to countries such as Argentina (not guatemala, ecador and haiti like some people like to compare). Along comes this asshole (which I am willing to admit that might have had good intentions initially, I don't dispute that because I didn't live that time and history on this topic is very prone to manipulations), and fucked it up. Today, cuba shouldn't be compared to haiti, honduras and guatemala because that is not the path that cuba was walking 70 years ago.
Where is cuba today? GDP of 100bill according to google, who knows if this is accurate at all since the goverment is so secretive and flat out lies... but even if it is... it is actually lower than Puerto Rico's at 105's. Cuba has 4x the population.... Per capita supposedly it has a 8k GPD. Offcourse, the average Cuban does not make 8K USD, not even in a 100 years, in fact the average cuban cannot even make 1K per year. Seriously, my doctor mother used to make 500 pesos per month which was about 25 USD per month, the whole year would be less than $400 USD. Now... is this a "middle income" country? No fuck NO.

Cuba used to have a solid industry of beef meat production. One day the brilliant genius that Fidel was thought... how about, we switch these meat producing cattle for milk producing ones, that way we can have lots of milk, and then we can still kill them and get meat anyways and kill 2 birds with 1 stone. BRILLIANT... except he fucked up the whole industry despite being warned that this didn't make sense multiple times.
Or that time the goverment decided to introduce a modified version of the claria fish into cuban's environment, that way we can have a rapidly reproducing fish that the cuban people can use to feed themselves... oh well that didn't go well at all, again, despite warnings.

Imagine this, you are the director of a sugar refinery in Cuba. Along comes your boss, a political appointee and he tells you... hey @Tainari88 , how about you crank up the machinery to 110% so we can produce another 5-10% extra sugar this quarter? And you reply... well last year we ended up producing so much sugar we couldnt sell it all, it attracted mouse into our warehouse, furthermore we kind of need to shut down a couple of our big machines for 2 weeks for scheduled maintenance, I don't think it makes sense to try to push production when we don't even know what to do with what we already produce and when our machines are at the brink of being fucked up. And the guy just tells you, well... my boss wants to announce in the assambly that we broke last years record so you will have to figure out how to do it, does not matter if we just throw the sugar into the lake after.
Idiotic discussions such as these happened ALL THE TIME, it is ridiculous.


Look, this is another topic. I don't think the homeless issue is entirely a money/economic one.


I don't understand how this is relevant at all.
If my family was in cuba I would miss them, that wouldn't change the fact cuba is a shithole.


It is not just an economic problem. The economic problem exists because of the political problem. Opening Cuba to international investments/economy would mean to make significant and perhaps more importantly long-lasting changes to the cuban political system.


Probably there would be even more. Plenty of cubans desperate to leave but they can't. How many of your fellow puertoricans had to risk their lifes on a raft to get out of puerto rico? How many Elian Gonzalez lost their moms trying to flee your homeland?
This is not a pissing context but if it was I win :lol: . No seriously, the key is perspective.
Furthermore, there is no thread that I am aware of praising of how great the puerto rican goverment is... how puerto rico send their doctors to help honduras and guatemala and how they are a success example for communism.


Exactly, it is regression. Cuba has not progressed in a long long time. Certainly since the USSR broke it has been downhill for cuba, it has even forced the government to take some reformative steps with very limited success because they are all half measures.


Really? That is what you understand? What is the value of independence? North Korea is independent, do you think they are better off than Puerto Ricans? Freedom? I have far more freedom in this country than I had in Cuba. Ironically given the sensitive topics discussed in this forum, if I was in cuba I probably couldn't post in here, and if I did it would probably be monitored and I could get in trouble for what I am saying right now. So really? Giving up your independence?


Wow, now I am a vulture. Good to know


If your solution is to start making the world more like Cuba, count me up as an obstacle.


The Irony. Tell that to cubans. :knife:


No, XogGyux I am saying that if you think poverty=inferiority? Is that accurate or not?

No, XogGyux, what I am saying is that Puerto Rico followed a path Cuba did not. The path it followed was being a complete client government and unincorporated territory of the USA. The USA constitution doesn't apply to us here. You don't know much about the independence movement in Puerto Rico. All nations want freedom especially if they have suffered under colonial rule like under Spain and then the USA promised us autonomy. It never happened? Do you ask yourself why?

Luis Muñoz Rivera wanted Puerto Rico to get out of poverty and be a prosperous nation FIRST. Before being independent. That was his core action with his relationship with the USA mainland. He did not want to be a US state or to be living in poverty and being the USA's enemy. That would cause blockades and a lot of problems for us. As it did eventually cause in Cuba.

Puerto Rico continued with Luis Muñoz Rivera until FIDEL became a damn problem for the American government. So? They said that they feared losing control of Puerto Rico's internal political factions and since all of the current Puerto Rican political parties were all really independence advocacy parties? They had to change that dynamic @XogGyux so they picked a wealthy Cuban exile root family to lead a statehood movement in Puerto Rico. They became the enemies of pro-independence Puerto Ricans. They could not have an Anglo American English speaking only candidate to run for a statehood party platform because the Puerto Ricans would see that as a naked power play by the Americans and they had a military USA dictator appointed by the President of the USA as governor from 1900-1948, issuing decrees in English that no one understood.

Study our history. Because we never were outside of the old policies from the Monroe Doctrine or Platt Amendment.

The way things are now has happened despite all our nationalists fighting and being jailed for even having Puerto Rican flags in our homes. That was illegal till the 1950s. Did you know that?

Look XogGyux all I am saying that if there can be a solution it has to include all of Latin America. We need to be free to trade within our own group. We need to be allowed to deal with our own internal issues and internal problems. Our people have to be allowed to VOTE in our nations and our choices need to be MANY choices and not coerced XogGyux.

Is that too much to ask of the USA government or does it sound reasonable?
#15167361
Tainari88 wrote:No, XogGyux I am saying that if you think poverty=inferiority? Is that accurate or not?

No, XogGyux, what I am saying is that Puerto Rico followed a path Cuba did not. The path it followed was being a complete client government and unincorporated territory of the USA. The USA constitution doesn't apply to us here. You don't know much about the independence movement in Puerto Rico. All nations want freedom especially if they have suffered under colonial rule like under Spain and then the USA promised us autonomy. It never happened? Do you ask yourself why?

Luis Muñoz Rivera wanted Puerto Rico to get out of poverty and be a prosperous nation FIRST. Before being independent. That was his core action with his relationship with the USA mainland. He did not want to be a US state or to be living in poverty and being the USA's enemy. That would cause blockades and a lot of problems for us. As it did eventually cause in Cuba.

Puerto Rico continued with Luis Muñoz Rivera until FIDEL became a damn problem for the American government. So? They said that they feared losing control of Puerto Rico's internal political factions and since all of the current Puerto Rican political parties were all really independence advocacy parties? They had to change that dynamic @XogGyux so they picked a wealthy Cuban exile root family to lead a statehood movement in Puerto Rico. They became the enemies of pro-independence Puerto Ricans. They could not have an Anglo American English speaking only candidate to run for a statehood party platform because the Puerto Ricans would see that as a naked power play by the Americans and they had a military USA dictator appointed by the President of the USA as governor from 1900-1948, issuing decrees in English that no one understood.

Study our history. Because we never were outside of the old policies from the Monroe Doctrine or Platt Amendment.

The way things are now has happened despite all our nationalists fighting and being jailed for even having Puerto Rican flags in our homes. That was illegal till the 1950s. Did you know that?

Look XogGyux all I am saying that if there can be a solution it has to include all of Latin America. We need to be free to trade within our own group. We need to be allowed to deal with our own internal issues and internal problems. Our people have to be allowed to VOTE in our nations and our choices need to be MANY choices and not coerced XogGyux.

Is that too much to ask of the USA government or does it sound reasonable?


That was well said. At one point PR was valuable to America and the independence movement was suppressed. The island was considered so valuable that citizenship was granted .

Sadly today most people in the island want to be associated with the USA and the independence movement has died. This has created a strange ambivalence where people want the USA around but at the same time are fierce nationalists. No worries about nationalism, this is well accepted in minorities and non Anglo cultures.

Today the USA would love to allow PR to be free, however, that is a hot potato as the 3.5 million people on the island would immediately move to Florida. Statehood is not likely as PR (just like DC) is projected to be a perennial democrat state. Hence there is no chance for statehood.
Last edited by Julian658 on 17 Apr 2021 21:18, edited 1 time in total.
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