[wat0n]

If you want to argue that direct US financial support (from the current POTUS) of death squads that are currently killing political dissidents is not an example of attacking democracy because Colombia is not deemed as a dictatorship by western governments, feel free.

Please note that you are not denying that the current US government is actively supporting death squads that kill dissidents.

I don't bother to address claims that have no supporting evidence.

Your incorrect beliefs about me are not an argument.

You are the one who regards multi-party elections as a CIA regime change tool.

[Pants-of-dog]

You are the one who regards multi-party elections as a CIA regime change tool.

And it us factually correct to note that the CIA has used many of the mechanisms if multi-party elections to attack and undermine democracy in Latin America.

This is bad.

You seem to think that the CIA should be allowed to undermine and attack democracy in Latin America, and that Latin Americans should allow this to happen so that they do not incur your bad opinion.

[wat0n]

And it us factually correct to note that the CIA has used many of the mechanisms if multi-party elections to attack and undermine democracy in Latin America.

This is bad.

You seem to think that the CIA should be allowed to undermine and attack democracy in Latin America, and that Latin Americans should allow this to happen so that they do not incur your bad opinion.

And they should do it the way Cuba does, shouldn't they?

[Pants-of-dog]

Current foreign troops deployed on Cuban soil:

USA: over 8500 stationed at Guantanamo.

Russia: zero.

[wat0n]

I don't think those American troops are there to prop up the Cuban government.

But yes, their presence could also be troublesome for a Russian deployment. If I were on their shoes I'd try Nicaragua and Venezuela.

[Pants-of-dog]

So we see that Russia has not deployed troops anywhere, and that the military equipment sold to Cuba by Russia is not being used against its own citizens.

It seems hard to argue that Russia and China are worse than the US right now in terms of oppression in Latin America.

[wat0n]

Except for the equipment sent to Cuban police you mean

[Pants-of-dog]

I have no recollection of anyone providing any facts about the Russians arming police.

But if selling weapons to police for use against protesters makes a country a dictatorship, then the USA qualifies. It does that internally.

[wat0n]

I have no recollection of anyone providing any facts about the Russians arming police.

But if selling weapons to police for use against protesters makes a country a dictatorship, then the USA qualifies. It does that internally.

The PNR have a wide range of police cars, particularly in the major cities, but also patrol on foot. They utilize radio communications, as well as a developmental computer dispatching system.[4] PNR officers are armed with a semi-automatic handgun (usually it is a Makarov PM) and a baton, and they "may use necessary force to apprehend suspects and to defend their person or that of any other citizen"[4] and a warrant is a serious requirement under Cuban law.[4]

Cuba has a license by the Russians to make those.

Cuba is a dictatorship because it has no separation of powers. The repression of dissidents is of course a major component of the regime, but it's not the main issue defines its status as a dictatorship.

[Rancid]

Cuba is also a Monarchy as the leadership has been kept within the family.

Or at the least, it's a nepotist/favortists/ good old boy system.

[Pants-of-dog]

I see.

Russians allowing Cubans to make handguns from a Russian design is worse than training and arming death squads that kill dissidents.

If people wish to believe that, feel free.

[wat0n]

Do you really think Cuban soldiers and cops weren't trained by the Soviets and now by the Russians?

[Pants-of-dog]

Do you really think Cuban soldiers and cops weren't trained by the Soviets and now by the Russians?

If the Soviets dud anything, that is no longer relevant. Anyone who was trained by them is almost certainly not working as cop in the field.

As for Russian training, there is no reason for me to believe they are training Cuban cops.

[wat0n]

I mean, except for the fact that they use Russian gear and all, along with the good relations between both countries

I also wonder what makes you believe the Cuban military itself isn't participating in the repressive apparatus, particularly in the realm of intel (including torture of dissidents).

[Fasces]

If Russia wants to do it, and Cuba agrees, go for it. But I wouldn't expect the Americans to sit down and watch just as they didn't in 1962, and given 2021 happened I'm guessing there'd be plenty of Cubans willing to work with the Americans to replace the communist gerontocracy. I'd tread carefully if I were in their shoes, given that Americans could show up there really quickly.

How's this different from Russian complaints about US troops in Ukraine?

[Pants-of-dog]

I mean, except for the fact that they use Russian gear and all, along with the good relations between both countries

I also wonder what makes you believe the Cuban military itself isn't participating in the repressive apparatus, particularly in the realm of intel (including torture of dissidents).

I use US tools at work. I am being trained and supported by the US government?

And the reason I do not believe everything you say is because there is no good reason to. Things are not true simply because you believe them.

[wat0n]

How's this different from Russian complaints about US troops in Ukraine?

It's not. But the situation is also not the same, at least not from a strategic point of view. Russia has little chance to stop an American operation to stop a significant deployment of their troops on Cuban soil, given the distances involved and their lack of allies nearby. NATO on the other hand borders Ukraine and that alone changes everything.

A Russian attempt to take over Ukraine could and would be stopped by NATO, through proxy warfare most likely. Russia has little chance of doing the same should the US decide to topple the Cuban government.

Ultimately, the issue is that Ukraine isn't part of Russia's backyard. It's at best its front yard.

I use US tools at work. I am being trained and supported by the US government?

And the reason I do not believe everything you say is because there is no good reason to. Things are not true simply because you believe them.

So you are denying Cuba has a state apparatus that, among several policies, has one involving torturing dissidents as means to gather information (at least)? That sort of thing falls squarely into the realm of intelligence and thus the military in one way or another.

[Pants-of-dog]

@wat0n

If you want to argue that Russians allowing Cubans to use an old Soviet gun design is the same thing ir worse as actively funding and training death squads, feel free.

In reality, they are not.

So we go back to my original argument that the Russians and Soviets never really helped us and the US oppressed us and both can go back home.

[noemon]

Cuba and its dictatorship is supported by Russia who is supplying the country with weapons, training it on those weapons and the diplomatic support that follows from such a strategic alliance.

If you want to argue otherwise you ought to provide evidence to the contrary.

Screeching about US support against democracy while justifying Russian support against democracy while performing mental acrobatics is cute but entirely hypocritical.

[Pants-of-dog]

Why would a capitalist state like Russia and a socialist state like Cuba work together?