Syrian war thread - Page 199 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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By wat0n
#15107574
That's not what the OCPW report to the UN reads, since you believe in the latter when it suits you, your refusal to believe in it now just highlights your double standards.
#15107601
You have not been able to prove any time the Syrian government used chemical weapons on its own people because it didn't happen.


From the horse's mouth - an OPCW inspector:


The initial report to the UN was the one that was "manipulated", "distorted", etc., according to OPCW whistleblowers, i.e. staff from the OPCW who were forced to lie to support the argument you're trying to make, very poorly, I might add.

But please, go ahead and prove the time the Syrian government used chemical weapons on their own people at the exact time they invited weapons inspectors to prove they didn't have any chemical weapons after the ones they'd given up to Western powers right before the war on the country.
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By JohnRawls
#15107668
wat0n wrote:That's not what the OCPW report to the UN reads, since you believe in the latter when it suits you, your refusal to believe in it now just highlights your double standards.


OPCW had several reports on Syria because there has been several "Incidents". I can't be sure to claim that Syrian government wasn't involved with them and perhaps the few accidents before the actual war started or in the beginning of it were the fault of the Syrian government. For that, Syria agreed to disarm with Europe, Russia and US involved.

The reports/events after that came mostly at times when Assad was seriously winning and had no real reason to use Chemical weapons so i call them BS. On top of their being a lot of physical evidence and videos showing them to be faked to a large degree. OPCW seriously discredited itself with the whole Syrian situation. It felt like it was being used as a political tool to put pressure on Assad when he was winning left and right and they only have themselves to blame for this since they stepped outside of their main goal: To prevent and limit the spread of chemical weapons while being apolitical.
By wat0n
#15107683
skinster wrote:From the horse's mouth - an OPCW inspector:


The initial report to the UN was the one that was "manipulated", "distorted", etc., according to OPCW whistleblowers, i.e. staff from the OPCW who were forced to lie to support the argument you're trying to make, very poorly, I might add.

But please, go ahead and prove the time the Syrian government used chemical weapons on their own people at the exact time they invited weapons inspectors to prove they didn't have any chemical weapons after the ones they'd given up to Western powers right before the war on the country.


What does this have to do with the incidents in Tarmenes and Sarmin? He didn't refer to those.

Are you saying he is disavowing the OPCW's conclusions there?

Are you going to stop the red herrings and simply admit the evident double standard when it comes to citing the UN as a source of factual evidence?

JohnRawls wrote:OPCW had several reports on Syria because there has been several "Incidents". I can't be sure to claim that Syrian government wasn't involved with them and perhaps the few accidents before the actual war started or in the beginning of it were the fault of the Syrian government. For that, Syria agreed to disarm with Europe, Russia and US involved.

The reports/events after that came mostly at times when Assad was seriously winning and had no real reason to use Chemical weapons so i call them BS. On top of their being a lot of physical evidence and videos showing them to be faked to a large degree. OPCW seriously discredited itself with the whole Syrian situation. It felt like it was being used as a political tool to put pressure on Assad when he was winning left and right and they only have themselves to blame for this since they stepped outside of their main goal: To prevent and limit the spread of chemical weapons while being apolitical.


The attacks I mentioned above took place in Idlib, an area that even today is not under the Syrian Government's control. If anything, "being seriously winning" may as well be a stronger reason to use them as a way to establish a devastating final defeat upon your enemies just like "being seriously winning" did not stop the US from nuking Japan.

Of course, the OPCW doesn't have the subpoena powers of an actual judicial prosecutor or anything like that. They can't follow leads where there are suspicions of tampering with evidence either. So I don't take them as the final word, just as it happens with other similar organizations that lack these powers - but some people do when it suits them, and I'm calling them out on it.
#15107745
wat0n wrote:What does this have to do with the incidents in Tarmenes and Sarmin? He didn't refer to those.


What happened at these places? I thought you were talking about Douma. There's been a number of attacks / staged attacks, it's hard to keep up.

Are you going to stop the red herrings and simply admit the evident double standard when it comes to citing the UN as a source of factual evidence?


I don't give a fuck about the UN, I mentioned them as one reporting org on something relating to Palestine years ago that you trawled this board to find, and now keep going on about them like I give a fuck. :lol:

You claimed the Syrian government is responsible for using chemical weapons on its own people and I'm asking you to prove when that happened. That's where all this started from. And now we're doing that boring dance that you think helps you hone your arguments, but in fact makes you look increasingly like a troll.

The attacks I mentioned above took place in Idlib, an area that even today is not under the Syrian Government's control.


Which year?

Considering who was in control of Idlib for most of the war and who have been caught staging attacks, it might be the Islamists who were controlling Idlib responsible for this one, rather than the Syrian government, who btw it makes no sense to attack its own civilians while defending itself from the proxy war.

Of course, the OPCW doesn't have the subpoena powers of an actual judicial prosecutor or anything like that. They can't follow leads where there are suspicions of tampering with evidence either. So I don't take them as the final word, just as it happens with other similar organizations that lack these powers - but some people do when it suits them, and I'm calling them out on it.


The OPCW spoke about distortions in engineer reports, manipulating evidence and there being months-long dissent within the org because of these things, and trying to fix evidence around allegations, like what happened with Iraqi WMDs. These whistleblowers ended up revealing what they actually found, which didn't fit under ASSAD DID IT. Your claim. That you are yet to prove.
By wat0n
#15107749
skinster wrote:What happened at these places? I thought you were talking about Douma. There's been a number of attacks / staged attacks, it's hard to keep up.


I've said plenty of times I was not. I was referring to the attacks claimed in the OPCW's letter to the UN on the matter sent two years before the alleged Douma attack.

skinster wrote:I don't give a fuck about the UN, I mentioned them as one reporting org on something relating to Palestine years ago that you trawled this board to find, and now keep going on about them like I give a fuck. :lol:


Yeah, you don't give a fuck about it because it doesn't suit you anymore.

skinster wrote:You claimed the Syrian government is responsible for using chemical weapons on its own people and I'm asking you to prove when that happened. That's where all this started from. And now we're doing that boring dance that you think helps you hone your arguments, but in fact makes you look increasingly like a troll.


Using your past "believe the UN" standard, why wouldn't one believe so?

skinster wrote:Which year?

Considering who was in control of Idlib for most of the war and who have been caught staging attacks, it might be the Islamists who were controlling Idlib responsible for this one, rather than the Syrian government, who btw it makes no sense to attack its own civilians while defending itself from the proxy war.


Read the extract from the letter (or, if you want, all of it).

skinster wrote:The OPCW spoke about distortions in engineer reports, manipulating evidence and there being months-long dissent within the org because of these things, and trying to fix evidence around allegations, like what happened with Iraqi WMDs. These whistleblowers ended up revealing what they actually found, which didn't fit under ASSAD DID IT. Your claim. That you are yet to prove.


Not in the cases mentioned in the 2016 letter. By the way, it includes one case (which I also quoted) in which they accuse ISIL of carrying an attack out. For most others, they are unclear on who's responsible.
#15107760
wat0n wrote:I've said plenty of times I was not. I was referring to the attacks claimed in the OPCW's letter to the UN on the matter sent two years before the alleged Douma attack.


So which ones in Idlib are you referring to? Do you have an article on those?

Yeah, you don't give a fuck about it because it doesn't suit you anymore.


No, because I didn't use the UN as a be-all-and-end-all source like you keep claiming. I mentioned them once, alongside others who reported on Israeli war crimes and you trawled through my posts from years ago to find that as some kind of gotcha. :lol:

Using your past "believe the UN" standard, why wouldn't one believe so?


That wasn't my standard. Read above. But you don't want to, because you're doing this dance again where you think you're honing your skills of debate. LOL.

Read the extract from the letter (or, if you want, all of it).


Which letter?
By wat0n
#15107766
skinster wrote:So which ones in Idlib are you referring to? Do you have an article on those?


Why don't you just read a few post back?

skinster wrote:No, because I didn't use the UN as a be-all-and-end-all source like you keep claiming. I mentioned them once, alongside others who reported on Israeli war crimes and you trawled through my posts from years ago to find that as some kind of gotcha. :lol:


skinster wrote:That wasn't my standard. Read above. But you don't want to, because you're doing this dance again where you think you're honing your skills of debate. LOL.


You have cited the UN as evidence to bash Israel in the past, as such, one can also do that to bash the racists in Syria you love so much.

skinster wrote:Which letter?


Read my post above.
#15107774
It's hard to keep up with your dancing around. I assume you don't want to share the stuff on Idlib for obvious reasons.

Anyway, this is another regime-change war you lost. Sorry about that. *hugs*
#15107782
It's not, but since you dance around so much, it gets boring and therefore, hard to keep up. Which results in the repeated questions in wtf you're talking about, which gets more dancing.

Apparently this deals with the UN report you shared


Let me know when you found your evidence for the SAA using chemical weapons against their people. Your initial claim that is yet to be proven, because of all the boring dancing that apparently helps you hone your ability to argue...something.
By wat0n
#15107783
skinster wrote:It's not, but since you dance around so much, it gets boring and therefore, hard to keep up. Which results in the repeated questions in wtf you're talking about, which gets more dancing.

Let me know when you found your evidence for the SAA using chemical weapons against their people. Your initial claim that is yet to be proven, because of all the boring dancing that apparently helps you hone your ability to argue...something.


Sorry but the UN, which you have no qualms using in other contexts, has published that document. It has two incidents of alleged use of chemical weapons by the Syrian Government.
#15107789
I'm not asking about alleged, I'm asking for that which is proven / evidence to support your position that the Syrian army was running around bombing its people with chemical weapons that it gave up right before the war, at a time it was winning the war, in an area that was controlledl by Jihadi orgs like Al Nusra, ISIL etc.

Let me know when you have that evidence for those claims that this debate began from.
By wat0n
#15107792
skinster wrote:I'm not asking about alleged, I'm asking for that which is proven / evidence to support your position that the Syrian army was running around bombing its people with chemical weapons that it gave up right before the war, at a time it was winning the war, in an area that was controlledl by Jihadi orgs like Al Nusra, ISIL etc.

Let me know when you have that evidence for those claims that this debate began from.


I already presented the sort of evidence you have no qualms in using when it suits you. You have been unable to ever address it at all.
#15107796
You have presented no evidence for your original claim that the SAA used chemical weapons on Syrian civilians...in now, Idlib, an area under control of Al-Nusra, ISIL etc.

Let me know when you have that evidence and also maybe share why you're shilling for al-Nusra. :lol:
By wat0n
#15107797
skinster wrote:You have presented no evidence for your original claim that the SAA used chemical weapons on Syrian civilians...in now, Idlib, an area under control of Al-Nusra, ISIL etc.

Let me know when you have that evidence and also maybe share why you're shilling for al-Nusra. :lol:


Imagine unironically believing chemical weapons cannot be delivered by aircraft, ever :lol: :lol:
#15107798
Imagine spending hours claiming the SAA was responsible for using chemical weapons it didn't have on its own civilians in an area it didn't control, at a time it had basically won the war, and then deflecting from that claim constantly, thinking people can't see your deflections and dancing aboot for what they are, or be able to read and comprehend the English language, on an English language political forum, and still think you're not full of shit. Imagine that. :lol:
Last edited by skinster on 16 Jul 2020 00:15, edited 1 time in total.
By wat0n
#15107799
skinster wrote:Imagine spending hours claiming the SAA was responsible for using chemical weapons it didn't have on its own civilians at a time it had basically won the war,


Yet not in Idlib, which it didn't control then and doesn't control now either.

skinster wrote: and then deflecting from that claim constantly, thinking people can't see the deflections for what they are, read and comprehend the English language, on an English language political forum, and be aware you're full of shit. Not for raced-based reasons, but for "honing" your arguments reasons. :lol:


I'm not deflecting, I already provided the claim from a source you have no qualms on using whenever it suits you. You made your bed, lie on it - despite it being full of nails ;)
#15107801
You shared a source of allegations and may as well post all major corporate media at the time who made the same allegations. But that's not the point:

I've repeatedly asked for evidence to prove these allegations, and you are yet to present any.
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