[Rich]

Trump's deal, perhaps surrender would be a better word, to the Taliban was an absolute disgrace and a total betrayal of the Afghan government. He forced the Afghan government to release 5000 prisoners. No American patriot or person of decency should seek to defend or excuse this dishonouring of America. I never supported the occupation of Afghanistan and Laura Bush's no Afghan school girl left behind. But given that we were there it was the duty of Biden to delay the withdrawal and temporarily increase military operations in order to undo the strengthening of the Taliban created by Trump's deal.

There should have been no deals with the Taliban, no negotiations. Biden should have promised to rip up any deals with the Taliban right form the beginning. The actions of both Trump and Biden are inexcusable.

[Rancid]

Trump's deal, perhaps surrender would be a better word, to the Taliban was an absolute disgrace and a total betrayal of the Afghan government. He forced the Afghan government to release 5000 prisoners. No American patriot or person of decency should seek to defend or excuse this dishonouring of America. I never supported the occupation of Afghanistan and Laura Bush's no Afghan school girl left behind. But given that we were there it was the duty of Biden to delay the withdrawal and temporarily increase military operations in order to undo the strengthening of the Taliban created by Trump's deal.

There should have been no deals with the Taliban, no negotiations. Biden should have promised to rip up any deals with the Taliban right form the beginning. The actions of both Trump and Biden are inexcusable.

Meh, we're out!

[late]

Losing is never pretty.

But one thing this utterly proves is that 20 years was nowhere near enough, and no one wanted to stay there an additional century or two, and spend enough to educate and civilise them.

Did Biden make a mistake? Absolutely. Would have it made much a difference if he hadn't made a mistake. Of course not...

If you spend some time studying foreign affairs, you will quickly learn all presidents make mistakes, it's almost impossible not to. We were full of crap from the very beginning. Like Vietnam, that made the rest inevitable.

[Politics_Observer]

@late

Ultimately, Biden made the right decision to withdraw our troops. It just should have been more orderly. Our soldiers knew that history was against us when we were in Afghanistan. Ultimately, it was about doing our duty and fighting for the victims of the 9/11 terrorist attack. Fighting for our home and our country. But you can't win them all. Sometimes despite doing the best you can do, you still lose. That's just life. But at least we stood and fought for our country. You just have to pick yourself back up and keep going. That's all you can do.

[Saeko]

Meh, we're out!

[Rancid]

HELL YEA! WASH THAT BLOOD OFF!

I heard a caller into NPR say something like "All those sodiers died in vain."

My responded was "YUP". There are a lot of people that are falling into the Sunk Cost fallacy trap with this. That because a bunch of American soldiers died, that is reason to continue throwing more bodies over there. fuuuuuuck that.

Time to step aside.

Let China or whoever else be the great Satan, they are off to a great start with their Uighur camps. Maybe the Talliban can go liberate that part of China or something.

[Juin]

HELL YEA! WASH THAT BLOOD OFF!

I heard a caller into NPR say something like "All those sodiers died in vain."

My responded was "YUP". There are a lot of people that are falling into the Sunk Cost fallacy trap with this. That because a bunch of American soldiers died, that is reason to continue throwing more bodies over there. fuuuuuuck that.

Time to step aside.

Let China or whoever else be the great Satan, they are off to a great start with their Uighur camps. Maybe the Talliban can go liberate that part of China or something.

Amen to that It will be really nice to hand the great satan baton to someone else. Excellent observations. China more than qualifies as great satan. The US qualified without even anything close to Uighur camps.

[colliric]

Biden is Judas in this story. Pilate is the US generally.

We can agree on that.

[Juin]

@late
But you can't win them all. Sometimes despite doing the best you can do, you still lose. That's just life. But at least we stood and fought for our country. .

As time goes by, I am more and more satisfied with the lose in Afghanistan. It is looking to me more and more like that kind of lose which is actually a win. I am reminded of some Rosie Perez lines in the comedy "white men can't jump".

Sometimes when you lose,
you really win.
Sometimes when you win
or lose, you actually tie.
Sometimes when you tie,
you actually win or lose.



Afghanistan's neighbours may yet rue the day they watched with glee as the Taliban marched into Kabul. An emboldened Taliban may become troublesome yet. Pakistan better watch out. They sowed the Taliban wind, they may yet reap the Taliban whirlwind.

Taliban! Isn't that a Shakespeare character? Or was it Caliban?

[colliric]

This is called rubbing it in.

You US taxpayers payed for this shit.

You could have built a shitload of hospitals and improved your healthcare system(and had plenty of beds during this crisis), but choose to spend it on this shit instead.



Yes, they're taking more Ice cream photos deliberately. Your president is a laughing stock.



Chinese media is having a field day, salivating over Taiwan. "Taiwan and South Korea should have defended themselves!" - Biden

[Stormsmith]

I do not think there was any good way for US, and everyone else, to leave Afghanistan.

Agreed.

Funny thing is, the US left troops all over Europe after WWII and +75 years later, they are still there. In Afghanistan, where no American has died in the last year or two, President Trump and President Biden have relinquished controlled and given this band of war criminals control over regular albeit terrified civilians.

[wat0n]

Agreed.

Funny thing is, the US left troops all over Europe after WWII and +75 years later, they are still there. In Afghanistan, where no American has died in the last year or two, President Trump and President Biden have relinquished controlled and given this band of war criminals control over regular albeit terrified civilians.

These two theaters are not comparable though.

[Stormsmith]

Expand on this thought please and why is the difference important

[Rancid]

Expand on this thought please and why is the difference important

US in Europe is due to NATO + Russia.
US in Afghanistan was about terrorism, nation building, and arguably oil.

European and US cultures are much more compatible than US-Afghanistan. Arguably the main mission was accomplished in Afganistan. Mainly get Bin Laden and kill a few Al Qaeda people.

Maybe it's time to break out Metal Gear Solid: Phantom pain. Time to kill me some Commies in afganistan.

[wat0n]

Expand on this thought please and why is the difference important

What @Rancid mentioned, furthermore there are no major trade or security interests for the US except for deterring whoever is in charge from hosting those who carry out armed attacks against US interests, including US citizens and especially in US soil.

[jimjam]

Wow, looks like some of those people were desperate to escape the Taliban and didn't want American forces to leave.

I don't think anyone is going to be building a statue of Biden out of thanks.

WTF??? That Communist rat Biden should have offered Afghanistan statehood …… .

Ps: In 1963, British Prime Minister Harold Macmillan even declared, "Rule No. 1 in politics: Never invade Afghanistan."

[Rancid]

I find it more and more fascination that the reason you can't invade Afghanistan is basically because they kind of don't give a fuck.

[MadMonk]

Expand on this thought please and why is the difference important

The first and most significant difference is economics. Holding Europe within the Western Alliance was critical for free-market Capitalism and liberal democratic ideology while Afghanistan holds little value in this regard. Afghanistan has been seen as strategically important with its geographical location but with a prospect of never-ending insurgency and an almost impossible task of creating a self-sufficient and functioning government, the writing has been on the wall for some time that the Americans would eventually have to withdraw.

While there are protests against American troops stationed in Europe (and terrorist attacks by both left-wing and right-wing extremists), historically speaking they have received broad support for being there and European governments have subsidized US troops in European bases to tone of 2,5 billion dollars per year (or approximately a third of the cost of having them there). Worth noting is that most of it comes as 'indirect costs':

First, 97 percent of the $2.5 billion in NATO support came from what are called indirect costs -- things like rent and foregone taxes and customs duties. Such streams of support are important in evening out the books, but they are not reimbursements for outlays that the United States has made. Rather, they enable the United States to sidestep things they would have otherwise had to pay for, and they are harder to characterize numerically.

And other countries have contributed more.

Indeed, in 2002, NATO’s rate of support was lower than that of other nations that host U.S. troops. According to the RAND report, NATO’s 34 percent share was well below the share picked up by Japan (75 percent), Kuwait (58 percent), Qatar (61 percent), and Saudi Arabia (65 percent), and was modestly below the level in South Korea (40 percent).

Sadly, we live in world of self-interest and no one was willing to pay the price of keeping Afghanistan indefinitely.

Source

[jimjam]

Good news is that this frees up resources for America's next international shit fest. How about invading Greenland ….. Denmark's autonomous territory. It's a no brainer. Greenland has only 56,000 inhabitants and, if Denmark protests, we invade them also ….. a twofer. If anyone asks why, that old saw last used in Vietnam, protecting the world from Communism is good enough. ……

[Rancid]

Good news is that this frees up resources for America's next international shit fest. How about invading Greenland ….. Denmark's autonomous territory. It's a no brainer. Greenland has only 56,000 inhabitants and, if Denmark protests, we invade them also ….. a twofer. If anyone asks why, that old saw last used in Vietnam, protecting the world from Communism is good enough. ……

Fuck it, I'm in.

FUCK GREENLAND!!!