[Potemkin]

Mobutu Sese Seko Kuku Ngbendu waza Banga, the all-powerful warrior who, because of his endurance and inflexible will to win, will go from conquest to conquest leaving fire in his wake

Most awesome political title ever.

[Atabor]

Who sets the living standards? lets not be biased, poverty is in mind. Poverty depends on what you call poverty. My grandmother lived in a hot. She ate good balanced diet with fruits, she lived to be 90 years, she was happy, she cherished our african culture- she did not go to school but she was wise and enlightened, yet some mis educated people will describe her as poor. Africans will always be poor if poverty means imitation of european culture.

[GunsnRoses]

The "best" parts of the continent objectively are without a doubt the region of North Africa and the nation of South Africa. There's a reason for that which should be quite apparent.


One of the continent's greatest indigenous leaders in my view, not just in the 20th century, but of all time. Zaire and its Authenticité doctrine practiced under Mobutu was one of the most respectable political entities in Sub-Saharan Africa and should serve as an example to all black people to strengthen their own traditions and culture, rather than poorly imitate others. I would certainly have seen him as the last best hope were I born a member of his race.

Many European nationalists will even speak of respect for the "Congo" during this period. Look at the state of the country today. The Second Congo War was inevitable after the breakdown of the state over a protracted period.

"Authenticité has made us discover our personality by reaching into the depths of our past for the rich cultural heritage left to us by our ancestors. We have no intention of blindly returning to all ancestral customs; rather. We would like to choose those that adapt themselves well to modern life, those that encourage progress, and those that create a way of life and thought that are essentially ours" - Mobutu Sese Seko Kuku Ngbendu waza Banga, the all-powerful warrior who, because of his endurance and inflexible will to win, will go from conquest to conquest leaving fire in his wake

Far-Right Sage, although I most strongly disagree with your opinions, most of the time I can understand where you're coming from. But this time.. I mean for God's sake, the man singlehandedly screwed an entire country. Between 1974 and 1980 two cargo planes, two fighter jets and six helicopters of the Zairian Army fell out of the sky. None of them were in battle. Than what were the reasons for such unlucky coincedences? It was because Mobutu paid his military so poorly they started to sell spare parts of their planes. Does Authenticité compensate for that? Does Authenticité compensate for an inflation of 9769 % (in 1994). Or does Authenticité somehow justify the 5 Billion US dollars Mobutu stole from his own, poverty stricken people?
Mobutu was a narcistic dictator who not only lead his country to economic disaster, but took thousands of Congolese lives in the progress. And as far as Autheniticité concerns, that was just a pathetic attempt to cover up for his failing policies.

[GunsnRoses]

About his name, in one Congolese dialect the second half of his name means ´the rooster who gets all the chickens´ xD

[Potemkin]

And as far as Autheniticité concerns, that was just a pathetic attempt to cover up for his failing policies.

He also rehabilitated Patrice Lumumba in the last few years of his rule, and even created something of a personality cult around him. Lumumba was a man whom Mobutu himself had been instrumental in murdering. It's as though Stalin had held rallies honouring Leon Trotsky in the late 1940s. This is, in my view, an indication of how politically desperate Mubutu was becoming towards the end.

[GunsnRoses]

He also rehabilitated Patrice Lumumba in the last few years of his rule, and even created something of a personality cult around him. Lumumba was a man whom Mobutu himself had been instrumental in murdering. It's as though Stalin had held rallies honouring Leon Trotsky in the late 1940s. This is, in my view, an indication of how politically desperate Mubutu was becoming towards the end.

Very true, he became scared of losing power after the end of the Cold War and thereby the end of US support. Especially the murder of Ceausescu and his wife was very traumatic for him.

[Far-Right Sage]

Far-Right Sage, although I most strongly disagree with your opinions, most of the time I can understand where you're coming from. But this time.. I mean for God's sake, the man singlehandedly screwed an entire country. Between 1974 and 1980 two cargo planes, two fighter jets and six helicopters of the Zairian Army fell out of the sky. None of them were in battle. Than what were the reasons for such unlucky coincedences? It was because Mobutu paid his military so poorly they started to sell spare parts of their planes. Does Authenticité compensate for that? Does Authenticité compensate for an inflation of 9769 % (in 1994). Or does Authenticité somehow justify the 5 Billion US dollars Mobutu stole from his own, poverty stricken people?
Mobutu was a narcistic dictator who not only lead his country to economic disaster, but took thousands of Congolese lives in the progress. And as far as Autheniticité concerns, that was just a pathetic attempt to cover up for his failing policies.

I think Zaire/the Democratic Republic of the Congo/the Republic of the Congo (why don't the latter two just merge?) is one of the poorest and least productive nations on Earth and that likely won't change in a thousand years. Corruption on a massive scale essentially exists in every African nation, even in North Africa and in Mandela's supposed paradise of the new South Africa, it is of course present.

I do reject thie notion, however, that any world leader can never be discussed on the merits of their ideology and programs, but simply whether or not they had a few diamond-crusted palaces. Every head of state steals and has since the dawn of time. It's human nature. Your argument is akin to the U.S. lambasting Saddam because of his Baghdad palaces, meanwhile, golf expeditions, and luxury travel to Spain and European resorts are put on the American dime. I start my analysis from the position that every leader steals and then evaluate their aims, beliefs, and policies.

He also rehabilitated Patrice Lumumba in the last few years of his rule, and even created something of a personality cult around him. Lumumba was a man whom Mobutu himself had been instrumental in murdering. It's as though Stalin had held rallies honouring Leon Trotsky in the late 1940s. This is, in my view, an indication of how politically desperate Mubutu was becoming towards the end.

When Stalin died in 1953 he had built the Soviet system to its most secure position and had nothing to fear of a revolution or destabilization, whether from disaffected Trotskyites or the West. The rehabilitation of Lumumba in Zaire that you're referring to occured at a time in which the Cold War backdrop fizzled out and many regimes around the world which had been placed in rival geopolitical camps now feared that they would be abandoned by their backers or set upon by their enemies in which case their superpower backer would no longer protect them. This was true in the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, a non-aligned nation which was useful to the U.S. but had its aid slowed to a trickle and was essentially cutoff, which was a prelude to what was to come with the violent explosion of ethnic tensions in an increasingly failed state.

My point is that I won't crucify Mobutu for this. Under his rule, Zaire, along with South Africa and Rhodesia, helped form an anti-Communist bulwark in Sub-Saharan Africa and Zaire went to great lengths to fight Marxism in many regional conflicts, including the backing of the most honorable UNITA and its interference in the Angolan Civil War. Authenticité was very similar to many nationalist, anti-colonial, and revolutionary conservative ideologies elsewhere which would have fared better in states that were stronger, less divided, and more cohesive, but it wasn't to be in the cards.

[Ombrageux]

As fascinating a leader as Mobutu was, there's no denying he was a monumental disaster for the country. Besides the wannabe totalitarian dictatorship, he installed a culture of corruption on a massive scale, even by the standards of developing countries, so that by the end there was simply no formal entity that might be called the "Zairean economy". Granted, things got even worse following the invasions by other nations in 1997, but that is hardly an endorsement.

Authenticité was fine as far as nationalist ideologies go . What it meant in practicce - leopardskin toques, coercive renaming to "African" names, and abacos shirts for all! - was basically superficial.

[GunsnRoses]

I think Zaire/the Democratic Republic of the Congo/the Republic of the Congo (why don't the latter two just merge?) is one of the poorest and least productive nations on Earth and that likely won't change in a thousand years. Corruption on a massive scale essentially exists in every African nation, even in North Africa and in Mandela's supposed paradise of the new South Africa, it is of course present.

I do reject thie notion, however, that any world leader can never be discussed on the merits of their ideology and programs, but simply whether or not they had a few diamond-crusted palaces. Every head of state steals and has since the dawn of time. It's human nature. Your argument is akin to the U.S. lambasting Saddam because of his Baghdad palaces, meanwhile, golf expeditions, and luxury travel to Spain and European resorts are put on the American dime. I start my analysis from the position that every leader steals and then evaluate their aims, beliefs, and policies.

The point is FRS that Mobutu didn't just fly first class once in a while. He stole 5 billion US dollars. At one point his personal fortune was almost equivalent to the foreign debt of Zaire. The term kleptocracy was practically invented because of Mobutu's regime. You say that every world leader steals and so I should ignore his stealing in my opinion about Mobutu. But I don't see Obama stashing 5 billion US dollars on Swiss bank accounts. Or hiring a concorde to fly his daughter to her wedding. Or building his own village with his own palace. It's just a whole different catagory of stealing. Mobutu stole a fortune while his people were starving. And no matter how wonderful Authenticité may sound to a zealous nationalist, in practice it simply didn't work. It involved supression of the population, economic mismanagement and basically was the excuse for his dictatorship. I just cannot see him as a great leader.

[polethics]

It is the past Africans culture and ancient way of governance that is hard to break combined with mind poverty which commonly falters everyone faster that we thought.

[BlackViper]

africa will always be poor unless an african empire is established. I know this seems impossible but africans need to reclaim sub-sahara africa(arabs already have a preety strong grip up north). The red tide will modernise if it is properly established. Africans are like foreigners in their own motherland as a result of colonialism(which still affects alot of african countries). Take inspiration from the russians and chinese and give your life if necessary for the motherland instead of fighting eachother in civil wars. I guess that's why us africans are not respected around the world because we are so divided which makes it easy for imperialist to fuel civil wars. The imperialists like to play the divide and conquer game. I guess there will come a day when all africans will fight for one cause. What a magnificent sight that would be. Probably not in my lifetime.

[Saffa]

africa will always be poor unless an african empire is established.

Very true.
Blacks first have to except that you have to work to obtain progress in everything and not demanding and expecting handouts from hardworking first world countries. Secondly, much like the Marikana massacre recently with violent strikers/workers demanding unrealistic wage increases - ever thought by asking and negotiating blacks will have more success with employers than demanding?

I guess there will come a day when all africans will fight for one cause. What a magnificent sight that would be. Probably not in my lifetime

Sorry to sound cruel and to the point, it will never work....
Two reasons; first blacks are lazy and secondly, there are about 11 ethical tribes in just South Africa alone and is a known fact one tribe will not take orders from another - as long as history can recall, there was always fighting amongst different tribes in Africa for power. It is actually happening now within the ANC with the shift towards Xhosa favoritism from current Zulu "rule" as recent Eastern Cape events.

[Alchemy]

Two reasons; first blacks are lazy

What an utterly silly generalisation. If you look at this from a South African perspective, blacks are attributed with doing the majority of the manual and hard labour in South Africa. How does this make them lazy? The wealth of whites and the South African mining economy not to mention South African (White) infrastructure has been built off the lives, back breaking and sometimes slave labour of blacks while they languish in the relative ease and comforts of their ivory towers. These are the only South Africans who have really performed any hard work in the above mentioned sectors as this type of work has always been seen as being beneath whites in South Africa, so your lazy stereotyping can immediately be dismissed for the nonsense that it is. You’ve shown you’re true colours with this nonsense racial myth I’m afraid..

[Kilwa]

Poverty is falling but these posters are to lazy and unemployed and 17-trillion-rotted to research about it?

African started growing for real only in 2008

[Suntzu]

Wow! Only 32% are living on less than a dollar a day. In another couple of hundred years they might catch up to the rest of the third world.

[Juice]

Wow! Only 32% are living on less than a dollar a day. In another couple of hundred years they might catch up to the rest of the third world.

Or maybe drag Europe down to us, I hope that's one option. Hell take the Union out, and you'll be just like Africa soon.

[Suntzu]

As long as the average I.Q. of sub-Saharan Africans is around 70 nothing is gonna change.

[Juice]

[Bulaba edit: warning for Rule 2 issued]

[Suntzu]

I had nothing to do with sub-Saharan Africa I.Q.

[Juice]

[Bulaba edit: warning for Rule 3 issued]