Libya, Gaddafi and a deal with the devil? - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#13637652
When Gaddafi came to power he was nearly immediately an enemy of the West starting when he expelled all foreign military and stole oil and commercial interests. He then went onto be a major financier of terrorism, the PLO, IRA, ETA and black September were both financed by Gaddafi as well as his public supporter for the likes of Idi Amin. The Munich massacre and the 1986 Berlin Bombings were funded by this man but were a more foreshadowing of what was next. The bombing of UTA 772 killed 170 and was then followed by the bombings of Pan Am 103 over Lockerbie that killed 100 more than the previous bombing. He was found on top of his support, financing and direction of terrorism to be pursuing WMDs, chemical and nuclear weapons. Libya was quite rightly isolated and shunned by most of the world.

Then he apparently changed his mind and agreed to pay compensation for his previous evil (but never fully accepted responsibilty) and abandoned the WMD pursuit. This was of course because that year he had seen the whirlwind that Saddam had reaped for his previous similar actions.

This coincided with a great amount of commercial interest in Libya, interest and negotiations in which Libya and Gaddafi always had the upper hand and with it they pushed for the return of a man convicted of killing 270 people and his hero's welcome. This was rightly met with disgust throughout the world. It was a selling of a soul, the West had made a deal with the devil. This man had not changed all that had changed was the West's financial interests.

And now he is attacking his own people with artillery and war planes, flooding the streets of the capital with foreign mercenaries set up on violently murdering all that oppose Gaddafi. Hundreds if not thousands have been killed by a man a few weeks ago we called an ally.

Was it ever right to befriend this monster?
User avatar
By Potemkin
#13637655
Was it ever right to befriend this monster?

The West does not have friends; it has interests.
By Groih
#13637669
Potemkin wrote:The West does not have friends; it has interests.


/Thread
By Rich
#13637787
Was Libya behind Pan Am 103? I'm not disputing he backed terrorists, but the Americans have not the slightest moral scruple about laying the blame on whoever suits their convenience at the time. They tried to frame up Iran for the gassing of Halabja, but luckily that never got into the western legal system, so they could later blame Saddam, when he became the new Hitler.
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By Cookie Monster
#13638288
The West does not have friends; it has interests.

Potemky, that goes for all states.
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By normalamerican
#13638449
lol, but it's bad only when America does it.

Here we are with a slam-dunk "nothing to do with America"......yet silly kid libs are wearing out their little brains, still trying to make it so.

Reagan put a missile quite close to up-his-ass.....yet Obama can't get around to anything but a mealy-mouthed squeak when no one will hear it.

Bottom Line - no standing Islamic govt will be questioned for anything, even genocide, during Obama's rule. Any ally of the US that stands in the way of Islamic conquest.......willl be roundly condemned whenever possible.
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By Holt
#13639383
Potemkin wrote:The West does not have friends; it has interests.

Exactly.

normalamerican wrote:Bottom Line - no standing Islamic govt will be questioned for anything, even genocide, during Obama's rule. Any ally of the US that stands in the way of Islamic conquest.......willl be roundly condemned whenever possible.

What on earth are you yammering on about? :eh:
By Rich
#13639405
Tony Blair is revealed as the great hero of the hour. A terror state needs external enemies to be really secure. I think it is very unlikely that the revolt would have got this far without the détente and opening with Libya. Sanctions and blockades are excellent ways to support repressive regimes. I think there is a lot of scum within the republican party who know that sanctions against Cuba help keep the Castro regime in power, but support them because they get votes and don't care if Cuban people are murdered, tortured and repressed.
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By Otebo
#13639521
The West does not have friends; it has interests.


As Palmerston said, 'We have no eternal allies and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are perpetual and eternal and those interests it is our duty to follow'

Of all the nations of the west, I fear Perfidious Albion is most exposed on this one. If Gadaffi is toppled a lot of secrets are going to be revealed and a lot of people embarassed, especially in London.
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By Repeat to Fade
#13639568
Was Libya behind Pan Am 103?


According to their former justice minister it was ordered by gaddafi himself, it would be far from out of character either.
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By Far-Right Sage
#13640127
Reagan put a missile quite close to up-his-ass.....yet Obama can't get around to anything but a mealy-mouthed squeak when no one will hear it.


Reagan's actions at the time were a great response to a government that was sponsoring attacks against U.S. citizens and interests abroad.

In this new world order - and I would stress that we are in a very different place than we were 30 years ago - Qaddafi's regime and several others like it are the last front protecting the United States and U.S. interests from the logical last thing we want - the actual will of the majority.
By Political Interest
#13641105
In this new world order - and I would stress that we are in a very different place than we were 30 years ago - Qaddafi's regime and several others like it are the last front protecting the United States and U.S. interests from the logical last thing we want - the actual will of the majority.


Why would the will of the majority be one of the last things you want? Why do you care about so called "US interests" abroad? Those are not your interests, they are the interests of your elite class. So then having attacks on US soil and anti-American sentiment are in America's interest, are they? This is what you have by being imperialists in the Middle East and thats the end of it. You say all countries do this, but are the Chinese doing it? Are the Russians or Indians doing it? Not on the level of the United States and West.

USA and Europe should become isolationist. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a traitor to the West and comrade of international finance and globalism.
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By Far-Right Sage
#13641181
Why would the will of the majority be one of the last things you want? Why do you care about so called "US interests" abroad? Those are not your interests, they are the interests of your elite class. So then having attacks on US soil and anti-American sentiment are in America's interest, are they? This is what you have by being imperialists in the Middle East and thats the end of it. You say all countries do this, but are the Chinese doing it? Are the Russians or Indians doing it? Not on the level of the United States and West.

USA and Europe should become isolationist. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a traitor to the West and comrade of international finance and globalism.


This is funny, as I am in agreement more than you realize.

I do not support the continuation of the occupations in Afghanistan and Iraq, nor do I support the wasteful military extensions in Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states, or the absurd level of Israeli aid.

We all recognize strategic interests however. First and foremost, I am opposed to what is now being openly accepted. Obama and the EU leaders are going to impose sanctions of Libya? This is the most disgraceful and opposed to our own interests.
User avatar
By redcarpet
#13641265
Yeah, they're allegedly being imposed for moral reasons. But that can't be right, otherwise the sanctions would already be in place. This is just PR stunts.
By farzad didehvar
#13753138
Where libya will go after Gadaafi?
How much Salafis are powerful in Libya?
Will the same devils in Afghanistan happen in Libya?
If the libys were located in a place similar to afghanistan, the answer possibly would be :Yes
The same strory was plausible: rise and fall of taliban, the repeatition of stories in middle east in africa.
But, Libya is so near to Europe.
Do european tolerate it?This fact could impact the whole story.

The problem with libiya, is the diference between libya and Egypt. Libya hasn't a governmential structure like libya,
in the vaccum of gaddafi, and promoting pro -saudian salafis, and the interests of western countries, What will be the synthesis?
A triangle of American, Arabistan, European?
User avatar
By Tribbles
#13756324
I want Gadaffi to be the hero of this tale, but it is time-consuming to look into the various accusations against him.

Here is some pro-Gadaffi propaganda:
http://www.thetotalcollapse.com/who-is-muammar-gaddafi-lies-vs-truth/
http://www.thetotalcollapse.com/the-truth-about-libya-warning/

Why do I want Gadaffi to be the good guy? The thing is that with bombs and democracy and freedom and all that dumb stuff, comes liberalism, individualism and other idiotic concepts that do way more harm than good.

Also: If Gadaffi wins the war, he will be the one that defines democracy - and then we will all be sucked into some sort of village-council hippie-farm. - It will be a novel and odd experience....

But first we will see this image:

Image

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