- 25 Jun 2004 19:03
#367632
Ok, well we have the debates up for the politics forum 2004 debates.
The rules are going to be simple yet very clear and will be enforced by the judges: The judge panel for the debates are, Mr. Bill, Maxim Litivnov, Yeddi, Boondock Saint and I. We will be monitoring and voting along with all of you members in the end to see who wins each debate.
The rules are here:
1. Only the two debate teams will be posting in the debates (And judges will edit ect.) so if you are not debating you make watch the debate but you may not post.
2. No flaming or deliberate attacks will be made during the debates. If I catch any posts which intend to turn the debate into a flame war consequences will be dire. You (debators) have been picked by your captains because you are mature posters so please stay that way and make these debates run smooth and properly.
3. No double posting or petty arguments. Remember this is not supposed to turn into a small argument between two members. It is intellectual discussion so keep to the topic at hand.
4. Your captain is the one who will be deciding who does what on your team so listen to what he has to say, he is the captain for a reason so respect him and listen to what he says.
5. You will be required to follow the format for the debate as it is there to keep the debate running smooth. (see Below)
6. If you are a debater in this debate tournament you will be required to use the signatures (see sigs forum for your teams sig) that is made for your team. This is a must so people can identify you during the tournament with your ideology or side ect.
7. Remember this is a team effort so cooperate with your teamates in the debate.
8. The only threads will be made by the judges so don't make any threads here.
9. Teams consist of only 1 captain and 3 members with a total of 4 people to a team and that is it.
Format and Guidelines -- amended by Maxim as of 5/7/04 -- please read this! [in formatted form at http://orgburo.com/guidelines.php ]:
Guidelines for PoFo Debates
The Opening Statement
Each team should start with an opening statement. This statement should be about one page in length, and as a guideline as to what to write you should feel free to consult earlier teams? statements. They have included a general statement of core principles, and how these manifest themselves in practice. If you are stuck for ideas for your opening statement, you might like to include the following:
Is there a core principle that sums up your beliefs?
Are there any current real-life systems which broadly reflect your beliefs in action?
What is the position of your team on core topical social/economic/political issues?
How would your ideology function economically? How would society function?
How would a community that ran according to your ideology deal with exogenous factors (eg. foreign relations)?
Statements should generally address the beliefs of the team concerned, and should not be challenges directed at your opponents. They are simply an opportunity to say where you stand, prior to the cut-and-thrust of questioning.
Questions
1. Your team may follow up with up to 15 questions. You will be invited to give/answer questions by the judges, probably at about five questions/answers at a time. Questions should be clearly worded and not multi-part freaks of questions.
Answers
Answers to questions should be, in the first instance, final and complete with the implicit or explicit approval of all team members.
What does this mean in practice?
In practice, this means that you should not post ANYTHING in the thread unless you are fairly sure that:
(a) your other team members would approve of the content [you do not have to ask other team members, although should be in consultation with them throughout the debate. Some teams might prefer to get PM approval for some/all statements before posting them, but are not obligated to.]
(b) your statement is a final answer to that question [that you or other team members won?t have to expand on or clarify the answer. You may be asked by the opposing team to do so, and that is their prerogative, and then you should respond. The statement should, however, be considered as definitive in its own right.]
(c) your statement is a complete answer [it is not a one-liner, it is not simple rhetoric, it has some substance.]
Answers should, as a rule, be substantial, but not as long as opening statements. Some will obviously be longer than others. For some answers a simple sentence may suffice.
Timing
You should note the short duration of debates, and as such always try to have a team member on hand to respond to the opposition and/or judges in a timely manner.
Please note that while there aren?t any ?penalties? as such for not participating, posting irregularly, or delaying answers, such actions may be factored into the decision by the audience. Tardiness will probably not help your argument, at any rate.
The judges can, at their discretion, lengthen the time of debate, especially on petition from one or both teams.
The Spirit of Debate
Our five fine judges are here to help the debate go along smoothly. Please recognize that this is their job and they intend to do it. There is not an adversarial system between the debaters and the judges ? we are here simply to facilitate debate.
Where a matter isn?t dealt with in these guidelines or any other rules, it will be up to the judges to act on their common sense. Debaters are also advised to act on their own good judgement throughout the process.
Please respect that these debates strive for debate over ridicule, competition over victory, and being good sports as opposed to fighting dirty.
Amending/Emending Rules
Both teams should agree upon these rules before the debate where possible.
Further rules, clarifications and amendments may be made on an individual or universal basis, especially with consultation and agreement from all teams concerned.
Final Decisions
The judges are still in consultation on this, but until any other system is made and agreed to by both teams, the following rules for judging the debate winner should be noted:
(a) At the conclusion of the debate, another week should be allowed for making decisions.
(b) Every PoFo member who is not a ?ring-in? nor a member of either of the two teams debating, is allowed to cast a vote.
(c) A ?Poll? thread will be open in the PoFo Debate section expressly for this purpose.
(d) Members should vote for the team who ARGUED BEST and whose ARGUMENTS WERE BEST, not simply for the ideology which most appeals to them at the conclusion of the debate.
(e) Each member?s vote will count for ?1?, except judges who get 2 votes.
(f) Members, and judges particularly, MUST give an explanation for their vote in the relevant thread. Obviously spurious explanations ? as decided by a unanimous judges? decision ? may result in that vote being disallowed.
(g) If voting is, at the conclusion of the seven days, tied, then the victor may be decided on judges? decision. In extraordinary circumstances, the judges may elect to declare a tied debate
_____________________
Final and updated Schedule:
Politics forum Schedule.
Match #1- July 4th- July 8th
Liberals vs. Libertarians
Match #2 July 10th- July 13th
Marxist vs. Anarchists
Match #3 July 16th ? July 19th
Socialists vs. Platonists
Match #4 July 22nd ? July 25th
Marxists vs. Libertarians
Match #5 July 28th - July 31st
Socialists vs. Conservatives.
Match #6 August 2nd- August 5th
Platonists vs. Liberals.
Match #7 August 8th ? August 11th
Conservatives vs. Libertarians
Match #8 August 14th ? August 17th
Libertarians vs. Anarchists
Match #9 August 20th ? August 23rd
Anarchists vs. Socialists
Match #10 August 26th - August 29th
Liberals vs. Anarchists
Match #11 September 1st- September 4th
Platonists vs. Conservatives
Match #12 September 7th - Septermber 10th
Marxists vs. Platonists
Match #13 September 13th - September 16th
Liberals vs. Conservatives
Match #14 September 19th - September 22nd
Socialists vs. Marxists
Teams for pofo debate
Liberals
Captain ? Gandalf the Grey
Member ? Steven K.
Member - Ice_Demon
Member - Spin Doctor
Libertarians
Captain ? Smash the state
Member ? Todd. D
Member - Noumenon
Member ? Daovonnaex
Platonists
Captain ? Jesse
Member - Vivisekt
Member ? Starman 2003
Member ? Sapper46123
Socialists
Captain ? Adrien
Member ? Boris
Member ? TROI
Member ? Himmelb(L)au
Conservatives
Captain ? Demosthenes
Member - Tex
Member ? Enlight
Member ? Mark
Anarchists
Captain ? Kam
Member - Communo-Anarchist
Member ? Shayn
Member ? Morpheus
Marxists
Captain ? Jaakko
Member ? Prometheus
Member ? Lincoln(m)
Member ? Dillinger
Judges
Mr Bill ? Judge
Maxim Litinov ? Judge
Boondock Saint ? Judge
Yeddi ? Judge
Socialist-BLUE-Gonzo ? Judge/tournament head
Ok, well we have the debates up for the politics forum 2004 debates.
The rules are going to be simple yet very clear and will be enforced by the judges: The judge panel for the debates are, Mr. Bill, Maxim Litivnov, Yeddi, Boondock Saint and I. We will be monitoring and voting along with all of you members in the end to see who wins each debate.
The rules are here:
1. Only the two debate teams will be posting in the debates (And judges will edit ect.) so if you are not debating you make watch the debate but you may not post.
2. No flaming or deliberate attacks will be made during the debates. If I catch any posts which intend to turn the debate into a flame war consequences will be dire. You (debators) have been picked by your captains because you are mature posters so please stay that way and make these debates run smooth and properly.
3. No double posting or petty arguments. Remember this is not supposed to turn into a small argument between two members. It is intellectual discussion so keep to the topic at hand.
4. Your captain is the one who will be deciding who does what on your team so listen to what he has to say, he is the captain for a reason so respect him and listen to what he says.
5. You will be required to follow the format for the debate as it is there to keep the debate running smooth. (see Below)
6. If you are a debater in this debate tournament you will be required to use the signatures (see sigs forum for your teams sig) that is made for your team. This is a must so people can identify you during the tournament with your ideology or side ect.
7. Remember this is a team effort so cooperate with your teamates in the debate.
8. The only threads will be made by the judges so don't make any threads here.
9. Teams consist of only 1 captain and 3 members with a total of 4 people to a team and that is it.
Format and Guidelines -- amended by Maxim as of 5/7/04 -- please read this! [in formatted form at http://orgburo.com/guidelines.php ]:
Guidelines for PoFo Debates
The Opening Statement
Each team should start with an opening statement. This statement should be about one page in length, and as a guideline as to what to write you should feel free to consult earlier teams? statements. They have included a general statement of core principles, and how these manifest themselves in practice. If you are stuck for ideas for your opening statement, you might like to include the following:
Is there a core principle that sums up your beliefs?
Are there any current real-life systems which broadly reflect your beliefs in action?
What is the position of your team on core topical social/economic/political issues?
How would your ideology function economically? How would society function?
How would a community that ran according to your ideology deal with exogenous factors (eg. foreign relations)?
Statements should generally address the beliefs of the team concerned, and should not be challenges directed at your opponents. They are simply an opportunity to say where you stand, prior to the cut-and-thrust of questioning.
Questions
1. Your team may follow up with up to 15 questions. You will be invited to give/answer questions by the judges, probably at about five questions/answers at a time. Questions should be clearly worded and not multi-part freaks of questions.
Answers
Answers to questions should be, in the first instance, final and complete with the implicit or explicit approval of all team members.
What does this mean in practice?
In practice, this means that you should not post ANYTHING in the thread unless you are fairly sure that:
(a) your other team members would approve of the content [you do not have to ask other team members, although should be in consultation with them throughout the debate. Some teams might prefer to get PM approval for some/all statements before posting them, but are not obligated to.]
(b) your statement is a final answer to that question [that you or other team members won?t have to expand on or clarify the answer. You may be asked by the opposing team to do so, and that is their prerogative, and then you should respond. The statement should, however, be considered as definitive in its own right.]
(c) your statement is a complete answer [it is not a one-liner, it is not simple rhetoric, it has some substance.]
Answers should, as a rule, be substantial, but not as long as opening statements. Some will obviously be longer than others. For some answers a simple sentence may suffice.
Timing
You should note the short duration of debates, and as such always try to have a team member on hand to respond to the opposition and/or judges in a timely manner.
Please note that while there aren?t any ?penalties? as such for not participating, posting irregularly, or delaying answers, such actions may be factored into the decision by the audience. Tardiness will probably not help your argument, at any rate.
The judges can, at their discretion, lengthen the time of debate, especially on petition from one or both teams.
The Spirit of Debate
Our five fine judges are here to help the debate go along smoothly. Please recognize that this is their job and they intend to do it. There is not an adversarial system between the debaters and the judges ? we are here simply to facilitate debate.
Where a matter isn?t dealt with in these guidelines or any other rules, it will be up to the judges to act on their common sense. Debaters are also advised to act on their own good judgement throughout the process.
Please respect that these debates strive for debate over ridicule, competition over victory, and being good sports as opposed to fighting dirty.
Amending/Emending Rules
Both teams should agree upon these rules before the debate where possible.
Further rules, clarifications and amendments may be made on an individual or universal basis, especially with consultation and agreement from all teams concerned.
Final Decisions
The judges are still in consultation on this, but until any other system is made and agreed to by both teams, the following rules for judging the debate winner should be noted:
(a) At the conclusion of the debate, another week should be allowed for making decisions.
(b) Every PoFo member who is not a ?ring-in? nor a member of either of the two teams debating, is allowed to cast a vote.
(c) A ?Poll? thread will be open in the PoFo Debate section expressly for this purpose.
(d) Members should vote for the team who ARGUED BEST and whose ARGUMENTS WERE BEST, not simply for the ideology which most appeals to them at the conclusion of the debate.
(e) Each member?s vote will count for ?1?, except judges who get 2 votes.
(f) Members, and judges particularly, MUST give an explanation for their vote in the relevant thread. Obviously spurious explanations ? as decided by a unanimous judges? decision ? may result in that vote being disallowed.
(g) If voting is, at the conclusion of the seven days, tied, then the victor may be decided on judges? decision. In extraordinary circumstances, the judges may elect to declare a tied debate
_____________________
Final and updated Schedule:
Politics forum Schedule.
Match #1- July 4th- July 8th
Liberals vs. Libertarians
Match #2 July 10th- July 13th
Marxist vs. Anarchists
Match #3 July 16th ? July 19th
Socialists vs. Platonists
Match #4 July 22nd ? July 25th
Marxists vs. Libertarians
Match #5 July 28th - July 31st
Socialists vs. Conservatives.
Match #6 August 2nd- August 5th
Platonists vs. Liberals.
Match #7 August 8th ? August 11th
Conservatives vs. Libertarians
Match #8 August 14th ? August 17th
Libertarians vs. Anarchists
Match #9 August 20th ? August 23rd
Anarchists vs. Socialists
Match #10 August 26th - August 29th
Liberals vs. Anarchists
Match #11 September 1st- September 4th
Platonists vs. Conservatives
Match #12 September 7th - Septermber 10th
Marxists vs. Platonists
Match #13 September 13th - September 16th
Liberals vs. Conservatives
Match #14 September 19th - September 22nd
Socialists vs. Marxists
Teams for pofo debate
Liberals
Captain ? Gandalf the Grey
Member ? Steven K.
Member - Ice_Demon
Member - Spin Doctor
Libertarians
Captain ? Smash the state
Member ? Todd. D
Member - Noumenon
Member ? Daovonnaex
Platonists
Captain ? Jesse
Member - Vivisekt
Member ? Starman 2003
Member ? Sapper46123
Socialists
Captain ? Adrien
Member ? Boris
Member ? TROI
Member ? Himmelb(L)au
Conservatives
Captain ? Demosthenes
Member - Tex
Member ? Enlight
Member ? Mark
Anarchists
Captain ? Kam
Member - Communo-Anarchist
Member ? Shayn
Member ? Morpheus
Marxists
Captain ? Jaakko
Member ? Prometheus
Member ? Lincoln(m)
Member ? Dillinger
Judges
Mr Bill ? Judge
Maxim Litinov ? Judge
Boondock Saint ? Judge
Yeddi ? Judge
Socialist-BLUE-Gonzo ? Judge/tournament head
Last edited by Comrade Ogilvy on 04 Jul 2004 02:50, edited 16 times in total.
. But I have done so numerous times in other forums, so, you really have never really seen me in full debate mode.
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- By Tainari88