A Declaration of Peaceful Intent - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Any other minor ideologies.
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#13780748
For the safety of billions of lives, to eliminate the threat of war, we, the free thinking peoples of the world, shall consider all people worthy of life, and all who are different from us, to be worthy of a peaceful existence.


1. Harm None - For the preservation of all that we place value in, it is only reasonable to respect and preserve that which is of value to others. Our only safeguard from the manipulations of tyrants, or the misdeeds of the unrighteous, is to agree that all violence, all damage, all Harm, is a crime.

2. Preserve the Peace - It is our duty, as free thinking people, to protect those who cannot protect themselves. In the event that a tyrant comes into power, those who value peace above all things must defend the rights of the defenseless. The only time at which military action should be tolerated or allowed, is when the innocent and unprotected are exploited or victimized by forces beyond their control. At the farthest limits of attempted diplomacy, the only time which Harm might be acceptable, is when it averts even greater Harm - this is the right of self defense, and the responsibility of protecting the weak and innocent.

3. Respect for Individuality - No man or woman on this Earth can claim to hold all of the keys to happiness, for all individuals of our species. Thus it stands to reason that no one of us has the right to tell anyone else how to experience their life. Within the realms of self determination, and consensual relations, it is up to the individual to find their own truth in this world, and it can only bring Harm for another individual to exert their will over anyone whose intent is peaceful.

4. Liberty and Freedom - Every person on this planet has the right to find their own happiness, this is the foundation of liberty. Depriving one of their capacity to pursue their own happiness, or infringing on one's capacity to experience peace and self-fulfillment, encompasses all Harm that one might visit upon another.

5. Respectful Restraint - When our own impulses tell us that a Harmful act may bring pleasure, it is our personal responsibility to contain those impulses. One cannot claim their own pleasure as an excuse or justification for causing Harm, for to do so is to accept that you enjoy causing Harm. Obviously an accident, or negligence causing Harm would not be a crime, but to purposefully and deliberately cause Harm, is criminally insane. It is natural to have emotional responses which urge one towards Harmful acts, but within our Humanity we possess the ability to use our reason and willpower to avert such terrible mistakes, and it is our responsibility to do so.

6. Defend Nature - This world is an incredibly tiny place, within a vast and astounding wasteland of lifelessness. It is our greatest responsibility to preserve the vitality of this world, and whenever possible, enhance that vitality. Needless Harm to the natural ecosystems and habitats of this world causes untold Harm to generations of people to come, and thus should be considered an abhorrent and despicable act. This world belongs to each and every one of us, and therefore to Harm this world, is to Harm every other being upon the planet, and every unborn child who might witness or suffer from that damage done.

7. Strive and Grow - Society as a whole, has a responsibility to the individual, to always seek to find better ways. As individuals, we have the solemn responsibility to better ourselves so that today, and tomorrow, may always be better than yesterday. We must grow and adapt, and never remain too attached to the ways of the past, that we cannot safely make it into the future. If we can never be perfect, that means we can always be better, so we must continually work to improve our world, as stewards of this very tiny, and very fragile Earth.

Signed,
Damon Schmitt


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I have a lot to say about the world. It is my feeling that our political and economic systems which were developed before the widespread use of computers and global media, are woefully ineffective for a modern world such as this.

I intend to mobilize and organize the citizens of this world to enact bold, positive change in the world, to create an atmosphere in which we may all prosper, and feel safe.

These messages are largely being disseminated in a video format (my camera is terrible, bear with me until I get a new one), and the entire collection (a work in progress, obviously) can be viewed here:

http://www.youtube.com/user/UnityEarthP ... ature=mhee
#13781134
very well intentioned, how will you then deal with the destruction of our species thru overpopulation, I man we are running outta space and water as it is, I suggest a nuclear ww3 so that remainder of our species thereafter can start a new and prosper with experience of what not to do......lol
#13781400
The last Iranian wrote:very well intentioned, how will you then deal with the destruction of our species thru overpopulation, I man we are running outta space and water as it is, I suggest a nuclear ww3 so that remainder of our species thereafter can start a new and prosper with experience of what not to do......lol



Well, this Declaration represents a goal to strive for, and attempts to codify our responsibility as people, towards society and the world at large.

It is a bit fanciful when not paired with an aggressive renewable energy initiative (which I am trying to organize popular support for a shift from military spending, to energy development) that would allow for large scale desalinization of sea water, which then supports the conversion of marginal land to arable cropland, and also allows us greater robotic manufacturing capacity to produce the goods needed to offer everyone a modern life.

We've dug ourselves a hole, the world cannot currently all live at the same level of relative prosperity that America enjoys (and we STILL have homeless and starving, people who cannot drink their water, etc etc), and at the rate we are consuming resources, even America cannot sustain indefinitely. Generating a massive energy surplus is the only solution to the world's material, and social ills.
#13781614
human nature is identical to that of the virus,
consume grow, consume grow untill the body that it occupies dies and there is no more to consume which ultimately leads to self extermination,
sorry to dissapoint you mate,
good luck with your crusade
#13781938
The last Iranian wrote:human nature is identical to that of the virus,
consume grow, consume grow untill the body that it occupies dies and there is no more to consume which ultimately leads to self extermination,
sorry to dissapoint you mate,
good luck with your crusade


This is true, other than taking into account the profoundly amazing adaptive capacity of the human. No other single Species inhabits such a large portion of the surface of the globe, because even ancient humans possessed the ability to react to observations of their environment, to craft that environment to a necessary degree of habitability.

Emergent behaviors can and will insure the further survival of the Species itself. For the first time in history, we have the technology to simultaneously Promise Peace to our fellow citizens, but also Prove the Sincerity of our Intentions so that all may feel comfortable relaxing, without fear of betrayal.
#13782069
Your policies are pretty much the same as those pushed by the "Hippy" movement from the 1960s.

By the late '70s, a common phrase amongst the punk rock movement was "Never trust a hippy". Ask yourself why, and when you can answer that question, then you will have a better understanding of the world.

The world we are living in today, is the world created by the children of the '60s.
#13782582
The world we are living in today, is the world created by the children of the '60s.


Well by definition I suppose you are partially right. I think it would be wise to not generalize too much about the 60's. The US was not a nation of hippies. They were an entertainment but did not drive the train anymore than hip-hop artists do now. Most Americans were just working and raising their families. The people who were running our world were the WWII generation.

Try asking one more question. Who was running the show while a few hundred thousand hippies set music trends and fought their only battle....that of ending the Vietnam war. So what were the 60's really like? They were about fast cars, excellent schools (1969 the best performing academic year in US history.) Science. We loved astronauts and put MEN on the moon. The first American woman in space was still over a decade away. We practiced duck-and-cover in preparation for the nuclear war we were pretty sure would eventually happen. You remember hippies but I remember Bruce Lee and motorcycle movies. James Bond was all that. There were three or four channels of television at most. Live news coverage was unusual. Everyone read the newspaper from cover to cover. We went to drive in movies. You graduated in the upper third of your high school class to get into college or you were off to Vietnam. The 60's were famous for drugs and one could still get 50 years in prison for possession of pot in Texas. The Sound of Music won an academy award. Leave it to Beaver was a top rated TV show. We loved westerns and Bonanza was the top show on television. (Newly color by the way and many shows were still black and white. Color TV did not become the norm until the 70's) There were not computers accessable to the folks. I took slide-rule in school because calculators were not common, banned from most classrooms and very very expensive. Jet Airliners were brand new (1958 for the 707) and the vast majority of airliners and aircraft you saw were propeller driven. We used fountain pens in school though ballpoint pens were becomming more common. Cars did not have seat belts and air bags were over 20 years away. Virtually all male teenagers could rebuild a carburator and we repaired our own cars. (When we had them.) There was a draft and we all thought we would serve in the military eventually. We had AM radios in our cars. Bill Lear (who invented the lear jet) also invented the 8 track tape. Some of us had them in our cars but they were expensive and sucked so we listened to the radio. And not FM. FM was for home and was mostly classical music. In the late 60s we began to see AOR. (Album Oriented Rock) on FM but FM was not more popular than AM for nearly 20 years. We lived through race riots all over the country and took sides. Not all (or even most of us) were on the side of the civil rights movement. We belonged to a restricted country club and Jews were not allowed to belong and rarely to visit. Blacks did not need uniforms to work there. The color of their skin meant that they were not members. A woman's place was in the home. Though my mother worked most of my friends mothers did not. Dad's word was usually law. Women dressed up to go shopping. We did not wear jeans to school. We got radio calls from overseas because international long distance was very expensive. To call overseas one called the operator and then sat around and waited for her to make the connection and call you back. You cooked a meal. Fast food was a new concept. There were no microwave ovens. Most people hung their clothes on a line to dry. One did not swear. Talking back to a teacher or being disruptive in class was not tolerated at all. You could be kicked out if school or punished for "mouthing off" to a teacher. We often did not even know our teachers first names. There were 362 people in my composition 101 class in 1969. You had to have two years of a foreign language to go to college. Spanish was considered a foreign language but if you were a native speaker you had to take another. English didn't count. If you did not speak English you did not go to school. There were virtually no illegal aliens in the US. If you got pregnant you did not go to public school. You went to a special school or "moved away to live with relatives" until you delivered the little disgrace. College professors took attendance in most classes. Though you would not know it to look at my writing here, one could fail an exam because of spelling errors. In college all papers were expected to be handwritten in ink if you did not know how to type. Electric typewriters were expensive and I had a good manual which was considered very cool. Not going to college was normal. I finished my first year deeply in debt. I owed $2000.00 in student loans because I lived in the dorms. Cigarettes (everyone smoked) were 25 cents per pack. Beer was 25 cents draft. A coke was a quarter. (Early in the 60's it was a nickle for a bottle in a machine.)

Oh well. That was what the 60's were really like. Forget the hippies. They were a fad and not much more. For the most part we were just folks going to school and hoping for the American dream. A house in the suburbs, 3 kids, church on Sunday and get married to a virgin but not as a virgin. The "free love" era was for "those other girls". You did them but you did not marry them. I was going to be a doctor. Who knew all the shit that was about to come down. When we watched Star Trek we were amazed that all the Captain had to do to know everything was to say "computer! and state his question. We did not even dream of the google ap on my Iphone that does the same thing. Not a clue. Computers were the size of cars and were little more than sorting machines. There is a taste of reality.
#13782779
I guess my previous post was a little cryptic, partly because I didn't believe the OP was yet ready to receive my full message. The OP is too idealistic, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I was merely trying to plant a seed. However, now Dr Lee has joined the conversation, I feel obliged to explain myself a little more.

As far as I am aware, Dr Lee's post is entirely factually correct. I personally wasn't a child of the '60s, but I was not so far away as perhaps Dr Lee may suspect. I grew up during the '70s and 80s. I remember my parents vinyl album of "The Sound of Music". I remember black and white televisions, fountain pens and manual typewriters. I remember when microwave ovens and home computers first arrived.

You are also correct that the hippy movement was, at it's core, quite small. My parents have told me much the same thing. However I believe this movement was tremendously influential on the wider culture, in ways that aren't immediately obvious. They were, after all, the dreamers of their generation, and it is a tendency of dreams to influence the waking self. They pushed, and they inspired.

As is the case with the OP, the movement began as being highly idealistic. They wanted to change the world, and throw away much of what had gone before. Like the earlier surrealist movement, which was also born from opposition to war, they didn't merely want to change the world - they wanted to change the very way that people think and related to eachother.

They succeeded. They changed the way we think, although not in the way they originally planned to. Gradually, over the years, their various messages and slogans seeped into our culture and altered it profoundly. They urged us to reject authority, to be ourselves, to get in touch with our inner reality to throw away the artificial constraints that society placed upon us.

At the time they were originally pushing these messages they were still heavily influenced by new testament Christianity. Their idea was that once the artificial constructs of society are thrown away, once enough LSD tabs were consumed to shake off the limitations of our culture, then at the core of every human being we would find love, and, as the Beatles told us, "all you need is love". They believed humans were fundamentally good. They were wrong. What people found, when they threw off the artificial constraints of society, when they buried down below the superego was the ego - selfishness.

Before the 1960s, western culture was far more community based, although still to a lesser extent than many oriental cultures. Over the years that changed. The hippy message changed, and warped over the years. Be yourself. Discover yourself. Express yourself. It was the origins of modern individualistic consumerism (as opposed to pre-60s consumerism that was mostly based on mass-production, with all goods much the same). Nowadays people are still urged to express who they really are, but they do it by buying the perfect handbag, or the right trainers. The ones that express the inner you.

The OPs point 4 very much fits in with this. The OP is an ideological child of the 60s and holds individual happiness (as opposed to happiness of the group) to be a primary virtue (i.e. he is reflecting modern western society.)

Which brings me back to the phrase I quoted from the 70s punk movement "never trust a hippy". The point is that human beings are fundamentally prone to corruption. Not everyone is corrupt, but any mass movement, without exception, will contain a large number of corrupt individuals who, regardless of what they say, are primarily interested in serving their own selfish motives. The point is that when rebelling, whilst it's easy to fight "The man", to reject those who rule society, one should also not immediately leap into the arms of the opposition, and assume that just because they aren't part of the established order, because they are saying nice things, then they are automatically honest and good. They may be just as dishonest, but merely hiding their motives more effectively. They will speak of peace and love, whilst reaching round behind your back and opening your wallet. Tony Blair and Bill Clinton, to my mind, were very much the end products of the 1960s. Just as dishonest as the politicians that came before them - but far more effective at marketing.

So the realization I was trying to push the OP towards is that any political movement should come with a decent dose of cynicism. It should expect to find corruption and actively look for it. A flaw of many modern political movements is that they are highly selective regarding when and where they choose where to look for corruption (some choose government or unions, some choose private enterprise). The flaw of the OP is that he expects to create a system where corruption doesn't exist at all, and in that respect he is deeply wrong in his understanding of what lies at the core of every human being.
Last edited by cathartic moment on 19 Aug 2011 17:05, edited 1 time in total.
#13782957
^^

I don't disagree with you. I did not mean to say that the 'hippy' movement did not have an effect on society. I was responding to the notion that this effect was as profound as the OP appears to think it is.

I agree with your assertion that the 60's gave way to the 'me' generation. Certainly we were far more community oriented in the 60's and 70's than we are now. We knew our neighbors and liked them mostly because they were just like us. Having said that I believe the civil rights movement, though at the time not the bombsell it seemed, has affected my generation far more than the 'hippy' movement. We learned to put our arms around far more people. We learned to look in the kitchen and the fields and see people who were invisible to us and those people learned that they could exercize political power.

Almost forgotten in understanding the 60's and 70's is the rise of women in the marketplace. The effect of this was profound. I wonder how many people here could get their mind around the fact that in 1960 only 48% of women were high school graduates, only 1/3 of them worked at all and 1 in 17 in management positions. So then they started working. Though they only earned 60% of what men earned they drove the consumerism of the 70s and 80s. All of a sudden you needed two cars. Women in the marketplace learned the secrets of a male dominated society. And, sadly, the position of the family became more precarious rather than less. Women worked, took on debt based upon their income, and when out of work put the family in a trick bag.
The point is that when rebelling, whilst it's easy to fight "The man", to reject those who rule society, one should also not immediately leap into the arms of the opposition, and assume that just because they aren't part of the established order, because they are saying nice things, then they are automatically honest and good.


Oh yea. Very true. And we have failed to teach our children and grandchildren to have the deep suspicion of power that we had. The hippies gave us that. When I see so many young people running toward the so-called libertarian movement today I am appalled at how trusting they are of what ammounts to little more than a corporatist movement. Couple that with the fact that the education system is failing all but the brightest of the bright and we are cruising for a disaster.

How do we get to Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachman and Rick Perry? What possible disaster has befallen our country when these anti-intellectual idiots can garner national attention. We are in very deep trouble.
#13782961
Drlee wrote: When I see so many young people running toward the so-called libertarian movement today I am appalled at how trusting they are of what ammounts to little more than a corporatist movement. Couple that with the fact that the education system is failing all but the brightest of the bright and we are cruising for a disaster.

How do we get to Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachman and Rick Perry? What possible disaster has befallen our country when these anti-intellectual idiots can garner national attention. We are in very deep trouble.


Those weren't the people I was thinking of when I wrote the post, but yes - it fits them perfectly.
#13783156
cathartic moment wrote:The OPs point 4 very much fits in with this. The OP is an ideological child of the 60s and holds individual happiness (as opposed to happiness of the group) to be a primary virtue (i.e. he is reflecting modern western society.)


Less verbose debate partners, I will go directly point by point on their posts, but I appreciate the amount of thought and effort that you've put into this, so I will attempt to sum up my responses to your position as a whole - however, I wanted to address this separately. I am in fact not stating that the individual's happiness is the most important factor. I am relating that individual happiness is largely contingent on collective happiness, but that the collective happiness IS made up of the happiness of every individual which makes up the collective. Everyone represents a minority - the only CLEAR majority left in the world are "Males", comprising an estimated (by the CIA) 50.5% or so of the world population. In any and all other aspects of your life, no matter what group, faction, party, or demographic you might choose to identify with, you are a Minority. Thus the only way to insure the prosperity of the Collective Populace as a whole, is to elevate the argument beyond religion, politics, race, gender, or taste in music, and to agree not to oppress -anyone- based upon their differing but peaceful beliefs and practices (or mere existence!).

As for me, I was born in 1975. My father was really into disco for awhile, but I don't recall any of that, I've just seen his old clothes, and rifled through his record collection (a phonograph?!). My father took the 'distrust of authority' that you speak of from the 'hippie movement' in a very academic light. He had never run off to Woodstock, he didn't attend sit-ins, and he didn't denounce Capitalism or The Man. He did however teach me to be highly analytical of those who are in charge, to be able to identify Spin when I see it, and to compare the stated intent with the actual result, to begin to understand -why- those in power use that power to manipulate people. His favorite examples were the big televangelists of the 80's, who surprisingly enough were mostly found to live in debaucherous opulance rather than spending their millions in donations to actually "perform God's work". My mother is a bleeding heart, you might say. She is largely apolitical, and just wants me to able to be happy and live my life.

I grew up in the 80's amidst the music revolution of MTV and the Walkman. I went to video arcades, and watched Transformers, and dreamed of owning a Porsche. Nobody much talked about it, but I certainly felt a significant uneasiness about the world, that I couldn't put my finger on - and I know now that I wasn't as alone in that as I originally felt. I had a healthy skepticism for authority, but being marginalized by my school (my 1st grade performance was nearly 100%, equal to another girl in my class who happened to be the daughter of a teacher, she skipped ahead to 3rd grade, I was sent to 2nd grade where to say I felt bored would be a grave understatement), and gradually feeling a growing distance between myself and other people my own age, I started to spend more and more of my time simply watching people, listening to them, and examining their behavior, practicing my ability to determine how to decipher what people actually mean and/or want, from what they say. I grew up in a relatively comfortable poverty - we never had any money (and I assure you, always dirt poor), but I never felt during those years as if we were about to end up on the streets. I never was able to agree with my teachers on the amount of 'work' that I needed to perform, to prove to them that I knew the subject matter (in my mind if you Ace the tests, you should pass the course, but nooooo) but since I was so adept at consuming knowledge on my own (at the age of 4 or 5, I took it upon myself to read a set of encyclopedias, no joke), they could never depict their carrot and stick scheme in graphic enough terms to convince me to spend my days jumping through hoops, only to prove to them what their eyes already saw anyway - that at the end of the day I could jump through the big hoop, the one they had set on fire. I grew socially distant from my peers, observing and analyzing them more than interacting with them, and though I was quite an outcast, I never felt any terrible fear that anyone was going to come after me for my heritage, or my differing beliefs, or any other way I might differ from the masses that I never seemed to fit into.

In some ways, I may seem to resemble a Hippie from one perspective or another, and I am not so foolish as to claim that at the end of the day, I didn't learn some things from them. Take Timothy Leary for example. He was a large factor in spearheading the actual movement, and in popularizing the use of LSD. He felt that the mind functions like a computer, and that you write programs and scripts for how to deal with certain things in your life - and that although you wrote those programs as rational response to things that were happening to you, many of the constructs that one develops in their mind ultimately end up holding them back. It was his belief that in opening up different parts of your mind for exploration, and in being able to temporarily peel back the Ego and look at your mind from a new perspective, that you could consciously rewrite some of that programming, to make yourself into a better person in ways that could potentially take years (or never happen at all, because you may not even SEE the problems beforehand) otherwise. While on one hand these techniques tend to invariably lead one to value joy and compassion more highly (are those negative goals?), he was approaching the entire subject as an academic and underestimated the average person's propensity for reckless and selfish behavior.

I am not here to endorse or espouse the philosophies of any who have come before me, regardless of their relative merits - due to the stigmas and failings of those previous philosophies. I am not here to take up a banner for a cause that already has torchbearers, or has obvious flaws that already led to obsolescence.

I am here to make a simple proposal - that the entire population of the Earth will be far better off, if all of the disparate minorities of the world agree to stop forming witch-hunts and inquisitions, and redirect the industrial capacity of the world away from conflict, and towards eliminating Resource Scarcity so that no one has to feel like they are going to be attacked for who they are, or deprived of food, water, shelter, comfort, or safety for who they are.

I know that it is easy to look at the concepts which I laid out in relatively simple terms, and question the motives within, to question the deeper meaning and implication of the statements themselves. However, it is my goal to lay myself bare to the world, to place trust in the People that if they can clearly see my Sincere Intent, that they will place trust in me to act as a catalyst to bring the world together in embracing the future of Humanity, as a Whole.
#13783249
I do agree that it is time to unite as a species. Things like overpopulation, pollution, global warming, etc, transcend national boundaries and, if the human species is to survive, unification is a necessity.

100 years ago, if you were Italian, German, or American, it really mattered. You only spoke Italian, and the people you interacted with were Italian and nothing else. You ate Italian food, you danced traditional Italian dances, and consumed goods produced in Italy. The nation state was, as Enoch Powell said, the ultimate political reality.

Now, you have the Internet, a globalized economy, and English and Chinese soon becoming the two main lingua francas of the world. The nation state is becoming obsolete. The only real identity at this point is a pan-human one.

I disagree with your manifesto. It represents the very worst elements of humanity; meekness, submissiveness, and atavistic morality. A true pan-human state must be totalitarian and should put the interests of the human race ahead of meaningless vagaries like "human rights" and "freedom".

Here's how I see it; a centralized one world government, run dictatorially by extremely intelligent and highly educated men, versed in history, literature, economics, and philosophy. A strong eugenics program to improve the quality of human stock, and birth control program to combat overpopulation. Parasites like the morbidly obese and the mentally retarded will receive no state funds, and will be sterilized. The death penalty would be used on even minor criminals, such as those convicted of assault, as they have demonstrated through their actions that they are a threat to civilization; there is no reason to keep them around. Strength, progress, and ambition will be fetishized, much like labor was in the USSR and war in Nazi Germany. Scientific research will receive the bulk of state funding; plantery colonization and expansion of the pan-human state should be a priority.

"Toward new philosophers, there is no choice. Towards spirits strong and original enough to provide the stimuli for opposite evaluations. To teach man the future of man as dependant on his will, and to prepare great ventures of discipline and cultivation, putting an end to that gruesome dominion of nonsense and accident that has so far been called history!"
#13783264
God forbid you are harboring a Messiah complex. ;)

Carthartic Moment said, "The flaw of the OP is that he expects to create a system where corruption doesn't exist at all, and in that respect he is deeply wrong in his understanding of what lies at the core of every human being."


Perhaps I feel this is a bit too cynical. I do believe that there is goodness at the core of most human beings but that is a half-full half-empty argument. Nevertheless he is not incorrect in his point. There is an old Arab saying, "Trust in God but tie up your camel". No amount of good intention will rid the world of bad actors. The purpose of society is, above all, to keep the barbarians outside of the gates. While I applaud the UnityEarth's good intentions I fear he could well become both victim and victimizer.

People who aspire to lead must realize that there are two goals they must keep in mind. One is the political objective that they wish to forward. The second, and In my opinion most important, is to only lead people to a better place. This is a tremendous responsibility.

I recently attended a speach by a remarkable doctor. She spoke at length to a group of young doctors and med students about the power of the white coat and stethoscope. She charged every new doctor to "speak truth to authority"; to use the power of their position to work for the good of their patients. This in the political as well as medical arenas. BUT. Anyone with that kind of power must be very careful to understand that not everyone who agrees with their ideas and wants to work for their goals understands what may be a very nuanced position. So....I hope that UnityEarth always keeps in mind the three quiet rules that every expert/leader must never forget:

1) Though you know a lot someone always knows more.

2) Just because people believe in what you are saying does not make it right or true.

3) You can't judge the value of your leadership by the number of people who follow you.

It is quite possible to be dead wrong, held in high regard, and lead an enormous number of lemmings over the cliff.
#13784118
Andropov wrote:I disagree with your manifesto. It represents the very worst elements of humanity; meekness, submissiveness, and atavistic morality. A true pan-human state must be totalitarian and should put the interests of the human race ahead of meaningless vagaries like "human rights" and "freedom".

Here's how I see it; a centralized one world government, run dictatorially by extremely intelligent and highly educated men, versed in history, literature, economics, and philosophy. A strong eugenics program to improve the quality of human stock, and birth control program to combat overpopulation. Parasites like the morbidly obese and the mentally retarded will receive no state funds, and will be sterilized. The death penalty would be used on even minor criminals, such as those convicted of assault, as they have demonstrated through their actions that they are a threat to civilization; there is no reason to keep them around. Strength, progress, and ambition will be fetishized, much like labor was in the USSR and war in Nazi Germany. Scientific research will receive the bulk of state funding; plantery colonization and expansion of the pan-human state should be a priority.


From the ages of 14-16 I held some similar views, believing the species to be too flawed to succeed in its current incarnation. I struggled with many things during those years, but eventually one day I realized that I had poured myself full of all manner of negative emotions, and that if I wished to ever find the things that I most wanted, I would have to heal myself.

Your world would lack John Candy (RIP <3) and Stephen Hawking. And that's before you even start to really climb those slippery slopes which you surround yourself with.

The point is not to look at the human race as one's own private little garden, where they can determine what is a weed, and what will bear flowers and fruit. The world which you have described is a bleak and terrible place which would soon be devoid of some of the best qualities of the human spirit, and like most others, I would fight to my last breath to stop it from coming to pass.
#13784120
Drlee wrote:God forbid you are harboring a Messiah complex. ;)

Carthartic Moment said, "The flaw of the OP is that he expects to create a system where corruption doesn't exist at all, and in that respect he is deeply wrong in his understanding of what lies at the core of every human being."

Perhaps I feel this is a bit too cynical. I do believe that there is goodness at the core of most human beings but that is a half-full half-empty argument. Nevertheless he is not incorrect in his point. There is an old Arab saying, "Trust in God but tie up your camel". No amount of good intention will rid the world of bad actors. The purpose of society is, above all, to keep the barbarians outside of the gates. While I applaud the UnityEarth's good intentions I fear he could well become both victim and victimizer.


In pondering why it is that we trust our politicians, when time and time again they betray that trust, I realized that when the time came for this project, that I couldn't allow myself to be just another politician with a plastic smile and hollow words. I came to realize that if I wanted to make a real difference, and if I wanted to bring Humanity towards the place that I see for us, and most want us to go, that I would need to be approachable, open, considerate, and humble yet brave.

I come as a fellow human, with no pretense, and no agenda other than to see us through the last struggling angst of the adolescence of our species towards a more calm and mature adulthood.


Drlee wrote:People who aspire to lead must realize that there are two goals they must keep in mind. One is the political objective that they wish to forward. The second, and In my opinion most important, is to only lead people to a better place. This is a tremendous responsibility.






Oddly, I've already answered to both of those points. ;)


Drlee wrote:2) Just because people believe in what you are saying does not make it right or true.

3) You can't judge the value of your leadership by the number of people who follow you.

It is quite possible to be dead wrong, held in high regard, and lead an enormous number of lemmings over the cliff.


Hitler, anyone? Nazi Germany was a fascinating subject for the study of the basic concept of leadership. A great juxtaposition between intent and results. He truly did feel, much like Andropov, that he was creating a better world for Humanity, and that we'd be better off, and I suppose thank him when he was done.

This is actually the sort of thing that I am hoping to avert. Our lives are increasingly filled with electronics and digital communications which may be shut down remotely with the flick of a button. With every new capability we develop, new control systems enter into play. Today we could demand change from our leaders and 'owners', they could refuse, and we could still go to work without them. You don't need a board of directors to continue 'business as usual'. But tomorrow, our corporate executives might have kill-switches, and a few very wealthy people could simply shut down the entire supply chain, or the entire food supply, forgoing all pretense of human rights in order to force you to comply with their 'policies'.

We are actually very close to (I mean, within the next decade) a number of potential pitfalls, based upon our current economic state and the types of legislation that are being pushed through Congress, which could ultimately destroy what most of us think a modern society is founded upon. For decades now, the powers that be have been fencing in the Constitution, and poking at it, pushing at its limits and then ultimately trying to redefine what we -think the words mean-, because it is easier to change perception of what is there, than to actually change it - and besides, most Americans hold the Constitution to be relatively inviolable, so the only way to erode our rights is to convince us we never actually had them in the first place (at least, not at the level that we always assumed).
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Hitler, anyone? Nazi Germany was a fascinating subject for the study of the basic concept of leadership. A great juxtaposition between intent and results. He truly did feel, much like Andropov, that he was creating a better world for Humanity, and that we'd be better off, and I suppose thank him when he was done.


Ohhhh. You had to go there. I should invoke Godwins razor. I suspect Andropov is having fun with all of us. If he is not at least his ideas are dead on arrival. The fatal flaw with totalitarianism is that it inspires like minded people which ultimately leads to its replacement either with another temporary regime or with something very different. Not totalitarian at all.

I disagree that there is much to be learned about leadership from Nazi Germany. In fact, there is not much about anything to be learned from Nazi Germany other than the fact that this kind of national ambition attracts its own destruction. As for Hitler. There is nothing to be learned from a sociopath except to be alert to the next one who comes along. There have actually been several since him.

I take it that is you on the six million your tube videos. Frankly I don't have the time nor the inclination to watch them. I think I will go back to my caution about a messiah complex. If lecturing people on the internet gives you joy then go ahead. Just remember. If you are to "succeed" whatever that means, you have to convince the wealthiest and smartest of people to pay attention to you. Let me know how that works out for you.
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Drlee wrote:Ohhhh. You had to go there. I should invoke Godwins razor. I suspect Andropov is having fun with all of us. If he is not at least his ideas are dead on arrival. The fatal flaw with totalitarianism is that it inspires like minded people which ultimately leads to its replacement either with another temporary regime or with something very different. Not totalitarian at all.


Well I think it was an appropriate parallel. I could have fingered a handful of other regimes which portrayed the inherent truth in the statements that you were making, but none of them so visible or understandable an evil. I fail to see how it is a discussion faux pas to agree that at the farthest end of the spectrum, political support and fervent belief in a cause, do not directly correlate to Truth. Or to put it another way, Righteousness does not make one Right.


Drlee wrote:I disagree that there is much to be learned about leadership from Nazi Germany. In fact, there is not much about anything to be learned from Nazi Germany other than the fact that this kind of national ambition attracts its own destruction. As for Hitler. There is nothing to be learned from a sociopath except to be alert to the next one who comes along. There have actually been several since him.


I suppose your time on the internet has led you to develop a stigmatic reaction to this particular example. I believe there is -much- to be learned about People, Governance, and Perception from the environment surrounding WW2. I never said that "we could apply Hitler's techniques to better govern our own People". In trying to make something better, you need to not just study previous successes, but also the more spectacular failures that you can find. The current American political ecosystem is so heavily influenced by Spin and propaganda, that without a deep understanding of the nature OF Spin, and the reasons that people can and will accept a heavily Spun position, one can't possibly hope to combat the Spin itself, and so they cannot compete with it.

Furthermore, there is no greater example of Fascism on the scale that Nazis wielded it, that is as visible or easy analyzed as their movement. Fascism is particularly interesting, because many of our political arguments are based on clever use of Spin to justify Fascist actions. We are in fact falling into a paradigm of Corporate Fascism, where despite all of the evidence to the contrary, we are being force-fed the idea that -anything- that is good for business is good for the American People.

Hitler was far more than a Sociopath, far more than a Fascist, far more than a professed Christian, and far more than a Nazi. Fear and anger are the -strongest- tools with which one can seize and maintain power, and the tools with which our leadership continues to manipulate us. Understanding those tools, how they work, how they are used.... is integral to understanding how to utilize softer tools to urge people towards better methods of organizing Society as a whole.


Drlee wrote:I take it that is you on the six million your tube videos. Frankly I don't have the time nor the inclination to watch them. I think I will go back to my caution about a messiah complex. If lecturing people on the internet gives you joy then go ahead. Just remember. If you are to "succeed" whatever that means, you have to convince the wealthiest and smartest of people to pay attention to you. Let me know how that works out for you.


I find it quite hard to conceive how you feel justified providing a psychoanalytical judgement without looking deeper into the mind which you are attempting to judge.

I do believe that Apathy, is the single greatest roadblock to Social Evolution in the world today, of greater influence than Religious differences and Economic Iniquity. Remember, that it is those who profit from -you- not standing up against them, who fill your media with a million reasons why you shouldn't even try or bother.

I am certainly not here to 'lecture people on the internet'. I am here to create awareness of what is standing in the way of a better future for Humanity, and to provide a simple avenue through which every individual can give a tiny push to Society, so that those who value Human Life, and who desire nothing but Peace and Comfort for all, can push back as a single molecule within what will become a tsunami of change, wiping away Humankind's past mistakes, and bringing with it a spirit of cooperation and a desire for Growth and Betterment that is more urgent than all of the strife that we currently constantly feed into rather than strive sincerely to soothe.


Those 2 videos are 6 minutes of me making a lot of sense about the 2 issues that you brought up. They are in video format because getting the average American to sit and read anything is like pulling teeth. If you would prefer that I paste in the text I would be happy to.
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