[The Resister]

dont worry I know the difference, the question is do You know that for the elites that dont matters!? MY POINT IS SIMPLE PLUTOCRACY DECIDE nowadays HOW WILL BE INTERPRETED THE US'CONSTITUTION, as pointed in previous posts earlier in this thread [1][1]

You simply dont want to accept that the us'constitution is even shaped and still used as it feats the elites as in the beginning so as now, citizens are just their resources, I've intentionally pointed to the yale pamphlet so You would answer is that reachable what suggests Jack Balkin, probably You've read the proposed theme in the yale link!?

simply there is breach in all legal rights in usA what about the natural one, from Your angle how would You explain the patriotic'act or the black'op funds or the fixed imposed minimum wage etc. etc. probably You are after literal constitutionalism but that will not get You anywhere in the power system of the current plutocratic elitism in usA, keep reading the Fraudalism Thread also suggested in the previous post You may found answer to Your dilemma why and how deception is interwoven in all western societies!

by Your logic in this respect freedom of speech also should be widely exercised, yet the same is confined only to the government and not media [1][2][2]

... so eg. in case of free speech as can be seen from the wiki link in the last footnote its matter of interpretation by the courts ... simply Your will to interpret the constitution (as I already said) will lead for sure to any county independence and believe me such freedom usA will not allow! us'constitution is legal enough as it suits the prevalent political narrative , but when and if comes to that some group of people to decide to use the unalienable rights as they fit them then instantly they will be chopped > the waco davidians and alike pop to mind in this respect ///

my conclusion is that is war of words, but that will not give to the citizens true freedom in the way You are interpreting the constitution, Thats The Fraud On West while acting democracy imposing imperial authoritarianism, so this wouldnt be obvious not rarely assassinations in form of accidents are regular occurrence and not just to common people but political figures too JFK King Hendrix etc. ... check the next parse they will act blind long ahead ...

https://www.nationalaffairs.com/publications/detail/the-founders-originalism

... for them what matters is that they've got voting consent even the elections were framed [1] its same in international politics its same in economy FRAUD became norm and is implemented extra easily in corrupt place like uK eU or usA [2][2] its money jukebox and nothing else, an farce of modern hidden imperialism in plain sight, sometimes exercised easily sometimes in withdrawal changing the political puppets so the masses will be calm quickly, and the difference with the eastern empires is that in the western the true puppet master are behind the scenes, simple the same circumstance is side effect of the enlightenment skim for swapping the vatican authority and its royalism with freemasons and republicanism but as I said so people would follow back then the fm elites trowed them the false ideal of freedom, yeah free to kneel again!

Nothing personal, but your assumptions are erroneous and your use of the English language is atrocious.

In America we are supposedly governed by the social contract known as the Constitution of the United States. By definition we are guaranteed a Republican Form of Government with three separate, but equal branches. The reality is that we are not governed by the Constitution; we are no longer a Republic; there is no separation of powers. America is under the rule of an illegal, immoral, indefensible, unconscionable, unlawful, and unconstitutional de facto government. You have no real Rights as per the Bill of Rights.

It is not supposed to be like that. Today is Memorial Day. It is a day to reflect upon the many lives that have been lost in order to secure Freedom and Liberty and secure the blessings thereof for those fighting AND their Posterity (check out the Preamble to the Constitution if you're having trouble with this). Throughout history man has risen up against the shackles of tyranny and oppression. Liberty and Freedom are concepts that are inherent in man. Otherwise, so many would not be driven to fight for those concepts.

FWIW, I fought against the passage of the so - called "Patriot Act," and have even been a victim of it so I know what it's like to fight it in court. The balance of your world salad is impossible to address in a single thread. The founders and framers left us with admonitions on how to interpret the Constitution. Two of my favorite are these:

"If in the opinion of the People, the distribution or modification of the Constitutional powers be in any particular wrong, let it be corrected by an amendment in the way which the Constitution designates. But let there be no change by usurpation; for though this, in one instance, may be the instrument of good, it is the customary weapon by which free governments are destroyed." George Washington in his Farewell Address


"...on every question of construction, carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was past"(sic). Thomas Jefferson 12 June 1823

I am beyond semantics and the theory of political jockeying. We have a Right, a Duty, and an Obligation to demand that the government make good on the social contract as originally written and intended. If they can't do that, we remove ourselves from their jurisdiction, reclaim our Rights and move forward. We exhaust all of our nonviolent legal and political avenues of redress, but never relinquish nor forfeit our unalienable Rights. Nothing about this is rocket science. It has already been debated and litigated. The path to reclaiming our Rights was paved by the founders and framers. Our country was taken through fraud and deceit; by force and duress; by illegal and unconstitutional means. What we demand is simple and just.

"...nothing then is unchangeable but the inherent and unalienable Rights of man" Thomas Jefferson 5 June 1824

[The Resister]

My point was that there are no unalienable rights, and the people you claim were the defenders of unalienable rights went about alienating people from the rights of life and liberty.

You do not disagree. You simply say this was fine because others were doing it at the time.

I wholeheartedly disagree with your assessment. The people I mentioned did nothing of the sort and your claim was refuted. The 56 men who signed the Declaration of Independence were under the control of the mightiest nation on the planet at that time. They made the declaration that man is endowed by his Creator with certain unalienable Rights and the colonists fought a war in order to secure the blessings of Liberty for themselves and their Posterity.

The federal government of the United States did not create slavery and in the Constitution, they began the process of dismantling slavery by banning the importation of slaves.

Living under a yoke of tyranny is not fine or okay and I never said anything of the sort. I tell you today that what is, simply is. If you pay the income tax, I could accuse you of being a communist. You do willingly buy from countries that employ slave labor, thereby enabling slavery so you are being hypocritical. Nobody forces you to spend money on that kind of junk. I'd bet my own house (which is mortgage free) that if I come to your house and take out everything made in a country that is communist and / or employs slave labor, everything in your house would comfortably fit in a bedroom of your house. So, the question in mind is, are you a communist and / or advocate of slavery?

The founders and framers worked within the system, exhausting all of their nonviolent political and legal avenues of redress before demanding those unalienable Rights. What you are promoting is intellectual dishonesty at the highest level.

[Pants-of-dog]

@The Resister

It is a historical fact that those guys owned slaves. You agreed.

It is also a fact that slavery alienates people from life and liberty.

They banned the import of slaves to protect the US slave birthing industry. If you think this involves the forced breeding of black people (i.e. rape farms), you are correct. How noble.

[Drlee]

You're kidding, right? Be honest. Since biblical times people have owned slaves and there doesn't seem to be anything people can point to that says the practice is immoral in and of itself. Did Jefferson practice slavery? Yep.

This is patently untrue. But it is the preamble to @The Resister racist tirade. It was inevitable that he go there. He is a racist and just admitted it. He also squashed his own rights argument.

Do not give this racist fool a thought except to know that he represents a great many people in the US these days. All of them Republicans.

[Odiseizam]

@The Resister interesting You've repeated half of my assumptions btw I dont want to act some polyglot but think my reasoning is understandable altho the grammar as noemon constantly remarks unintelligible, probably good regular excuse for some when they lack arguments, what to say learn to accept that this is international eforum with no rule for fluid english ...

anyway, when we came to agreement, now whats Your answer, revolution!? probably You think that such move will bring better circumstances, no, it will be even worst! so my suggestion would be forcing Open Public Debate on the matter, first of all through some fora online, gathering as much as possible lawyers, and after eventual publicized agenda an push for ballots if not bills that will reinsure the unalienable rights ... tho mids western empire like usA this is just great waste of time and with uprising even greater waste, so chill out accept the reality and strive for Liberty Of The Soul not the freemasonic fake ideals!

must point again You need to understand who owns usA i.e. how came to that [1][1] and finally who are those elites that hold the true power behind the scenes [2][2][2] and for sure these are not the citizens, and if You know how function such cults You'll know that everything that they achieved even by fraud they consider as own , also think I've gave You the reason as freemasonry vs vatican actually neopaganism vs Christianity, the same takeover started first in uk then usA after France and so on through the rest of europe asia africa, what is interesting behind all is always beic as active freemasonic banc'corp arm, SO as freemasons now they own almost all usA through their fed indebting, thus dont expect they will allow the us citizens to take away their empire, actually it could be opposite they to take everything from them!

[The Resister]

@The Resister

It is a historical fact that those guys owned slaves. You agreed.

It is also a fact that slavery alienates people from life and liberty.

They banned the import of slaves to protect the US slave birthing industry. If you think this involves the forced breeding of black people (i.e. rape farms), you are correct. How noble.

It is a fact that the colonists did not start slavery. It is a fact that the United States never legalized slavery. It is a fact that the individual states were the first places to outlaw slavery in modern history. It is a fact that Jefferson put a lot of effort into advocating that everybody has unalienable Rights. It is a fact that the average white, in every country at that point in history, did not regard the negro to be a human being, but a lower order of life.

Since blacks make the false claim that they were the first Egyptians, then they have nothing to wail about. They held my ancestors in bondage for over 400 years. Apparently my ancestors were a lower order of life, but even they prevailed and reclaimed their Rights. The cycles of history show that it is human nature to rise above tyranny and oppression that you imply are the only realities of life.

Your argument, in my opinion, lacks any realistic basis. You claim there are no unalienable Rights. Consequently, there should be no laws against murder if you live in a democracy and the majority feel that a certain race, religion, or belief should be eradicated. In our de jure, lawful Republic we are guaranteed unalienable Rights. The only reason you don't have them is that nobody is there to hold the government accountable. The Charter and Proclamation of the Rights of Man changes that.

[Pants-of-dog]

It is a fact that the colonists did not start slavery. It is a fact that the United States never legalized slavery. It is a fact that the individual states were the first places to outlaw slavery in modern history. It is a fact that Jefferson put a lot of effort into advocating that everybody has unalienable Rights. It is a fact that the average white, in every country at that point in history, did not regard the negro to be a human being, but a lower order of life.

The US definitely legalised slavery.

Haiti was the first modern state to abolish slavery.

Since blacks make the false claim that they were the first Egyptians, then they have nothing to wail about. They held my ancestors in bondage for over 400 years. Apparently my ancestors were a lower order of life, but even they prevailed and reclaimed their Rights. The cycles of history show that it is human nature to rise above tyranny and oppression that you imply are the only realities of life.

So black people today cannot complain about how slavery has impacted them because the ancient Egyptians kept slaves.

Your argument, in my opinion, lacks any realistic basis. You claim there are no unalienable Rights. Consequently, there should be no laws against murder if you live in a democracy and the majority feel that a certain race, religion, or belief should be eradicated. In our de jure, lawful Republic we are guaranteed unalienable Rights. The only reason you don't have them is that nobody is there to hold the government accountable. The Charter and Proclamation of the Rights of Man changes that.

In the USA, it was perfectly legal to murder certain people because the majority decided so.

So history kinda supports my point.

[The Resister]

@The Resister interesting You've repeated half of my assumptions btw I dont want to act some polyglot but think my reasoning is understandable altho the grammar as noemon constantly remarks unintelligible, probably good regular excuse for some when they lack arguments, what to say learn to accept that this is international eforum with no rule for fluid english ...

anyway, when we came to agreement, now whats Your answer, revolution!? probably You think that such move will bring better circumstances, no, it will be even worst! so my suggestion would be forcing Open Public Debate on the matter, first of all through some fora online, gathering as much as possible lawyers, and after eventual publicized agenda an push for ballots if not bills that will reinsure the unalienable rights ... tho mids western empire like usA this is just great waste of time and with uprising even greater waste, so chill out accept the reality and strive for Liberty Of The Soul not the freemasonic fake ideals!

must point again You need to understand who owns usA i.e. how came to that [1][1] and finally who are those elites that hold the true power behind the scenes [2][2][2] and for sure these are not the citizens, and if You know how function such cults You'll know that everything that they achieved even by fraud they consider as own , also think I've gave You the reason as freemasonry vs vatican actually neopaganism vs Christianity, the same takeover started first in uk then usA after France and so on through the rest of europe asia africa, what is interesting behind all is always beic as active freemasonic banc'corp arm, SO as freemasons now they own almost all usA through their fed indebting, thus dont expect they will allow the us citizens to take away their empire, actually it could be opposite they to take everything from them!

Your attempts to use fifty dollar words to convey a ten cent ideology cloaked in atrocious grammar makes it nearly impossible to have a discussion with you.

Secondary to that, if a plan existed and it were to be put out there as public fodder, it would only help the enemies of America. You don't publicly discuss the details of any plan (presuming one exists). Did you see the colonists putting forth any plan when the ratified the Declaration of Independence? You are putting the cart before the horse. We are guaranteed unalienable Rights in the Bill of Rights. The first objective is to demand those Rights. Historically, this is how change is effected. The Charter and Proclamation of the Rights of Man is such a demand. That is exactly the way the colonists did it with the Declaration of Independence. Frederick Douglass, once a slave, put it this way:

“If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground. They want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters."

The NEW WORLD ORDER and their quest for a One World Government, One World Religion, and One World Race are a reality. We live in it. We also live in a time when they have almost reached their apex and the cycles of history go on. In Tytler's Cycles of History it goes:

Bondage
Spiritual Faith
Courage
Liberty
Abundance
Selfishness
Complacency
Apathy
Dependence
Then starting over with Bondage

https://commonsensegovernment.com/the-tytler-cycle/

The Bondage stage will now reach its zenith under Joe Biden. Whether you agree with it or not; whether you believe in it or not, the cycles of history will continue. I prefer that I have some control over my own destiny when the changing of the cycle begins. Right now, we demand what we're due. THAT is what exposes what really is and shatters the illusion of Freedom we don't have in reality. Once those that DO understand organize and influence those who are not informed or ill informed, the change in this historical cycle begins.

[The Resister]

The US definitely legalised slavery.

Haiti was the first modern state to abolish slavery.



So black people today cannot complain about how slavery has impacted them because the ancient Egyptians kept slaves.



In the USA, it was perfectly legal to murder certain people because the majority decided so.

So history kinda supports my point.

History does not support anything you've posted. Haiti outlawed slavery in 1793; Vermont outlawed slavery in 1777 and by the time of the ratification of the Constitution of the United States , over half the states had already outlawed slavery. American states beat Haiti by at least FIVE years in outlawing slavery. The balance of your post is in error as well.

[Pants-of-dog]

@The Resister

Vermont was not recognised as a state at that time.

Anyway, history is full of examples of people being alienated from the rights of life and liberty.

[Drlee]

You have to remember @Pants-of-dog that @The Resister is a racist. He is looking for some justification for slavery in the colonies. There is none other than the founders were almost to a man convinced racists. It grieves him that his heroes were wrong about something and, because his entire theory revolves around the concept of the inerrancy of the words of the founders, is looking for convoluted and frankly childish excuses for their behavior. The nnotion that because some fledgling states banned slavery somehow excuses the founders from responsibility is foolish. It is also fooling to assert that slavery was OK because, you know, everybody is doing it.

Jefferson knew that what he was doing was wrong. Never mind that the 14 year old child he chose to rape, Sally Hemmings, was his wife's half sister. Fun to contemplate that, isn't it? Jefferson knew of the feelings of his close friend John Adams who said, when Jefferson's continued rape of Hemmings was revealed in the press, "“The story of [Sally Hemings] is a natural and almost unavoidable Consequence of that foul contagion (pox) in the human Character Negro Slavery.”

Adams went on to say, "“A great Lady has said she did not believe there was a Planter in Virginia who could not reckon among his slaves a number of his children.”

No the founders knew that slavery was a bad thing, that they ought to abolish it, that rights should be the same for whites and blacks but that slavery was simply a bargaining chip on the table of the adoption of the constitution. They even cynically allowed a number value (percentage of a white male) that a slave ought to be.

The founders did not at all believe in universal human rights. Not even a little. Their overblown rhetoric notwithstanding.

Oh and by the way. They affirmatively did not believe that all human rights extended to women. Not even white women.

[wat0n]

...All of that being fairly common in the 18th century at that.

[Odiseizam]

@The Resister I am not at all putting nothing, nor provoking You to come upfront with anything, but just concluding where Your good intention goes i.e. knowing who owns usA how knowing that the same skim on west was in motion for more than three centuries little by little unraveling till the current circumstances, and what to say else than Your good will is doable only by revolution, finally what You've admit that is unavoidable if the authorities dont implement constitution and its foundation declaration together literally, hm as in case with the advice to ckaihatsu [1] dont see revolution as way out, dont forget in what time we live and what kind of tech is in hands of the shadowy elites who You think they will allow to be introduced such liberal rights, hm they will just more and more denounce the current one till they dont put in effect their long dreamed n'w'o skim, as pointed earlier even if they as globalist elites are removed stil even neocons will not allow such interpretation coz that will mean any county to have right on declaring independence, haha they will not allow even states on such move what about some village, are You getting me

on other hand what I dont get is why all of You are still bragging about slavery, as if they were or not proslavery that will change something, as founders or later as statesman they were seeing to ensure citizens to have guaranteed freedom, altho in different time had have different view who how can become citizen [1] yet regarding abolishing slavery think they as elites were misused by the prime "enlighters" who were seeking to put in motion simple skim how masses as free to be easily controlled through the wages [2] i.e. money to have the crucial role so bancsters as the true rulers behind the scenes will not have to bother with loyal soldiers (slaves) to some farming capitalist in usA i.e. wage slavery suite them extra (as back then so as nowadays) i.e. instead to bribe many with much simply bough them all by speculations or controlled profit making and eventually like that holding hostage masses thus easily controllable!

finally its Your thread and Your Free Will what You want to achieve how, dont need to debate me at all, I've just jump in so would point that the true usA elites i.e. freemasons were never after liberty, at least not those that were pulling the strings, but as neopagans were after dismantling Christianity, if we have this in mind that defacto is spiritual battle in question then take a look in The Revelation how the same will end, so dont waste time thinking that You can change something through the false liberal ideology which just served to be overthrown vatican or royalists supremacy on west by the teutons (which hold the bancorp nucleus in usA as always in uK too through city'of'london etc.) so in the end never were in question some true liberty ideals but true skim for power control, yet I cant say that all who followed their skim knew about the same and actually many were bearers of true enlightenment spirit in their deeds, even nowadays many cant understand who is real stirrer behind the scenes! if You really want to become freedom fighter I'll suggest join Christianity With All Your Hearth because we are not even in war with some elites by fallen spirits that through our Gift Of The Free Will succeeded to grab many, thus revolutionary eradicatin any of their puppets will not remove them as puppet masters, so if You want true change strive for Inchurched Life and attack every evil source through Invoking Extra Holy Grace upon this world ...

[Drlee]

@wat0n ...All of that being fairly common in the 18th century at that.

And that is even more to the point. The founders created a country possessed of a constitution that was, on the face of it, not entirely remarkable. What was remarkable was that they were able to get it done. We Americans forget that Great Britain was and is a democracy. In many ways one more egalitarian than ours was/is (especially since the reform of the House of Lords). But at the time when the colonies revolted they did not revolt against a ruling king. The revolted against a parliamentary democracy.

The 'fact' that the founders held pretty common beliefs with regard to slavery, women's suffrage, fiscal policy and such does not excuse them from criticism. And more importantly shows absolutely that the constitution of which they were so proud was born in desperate need of improvement. They knew that so they made changing it reasonably easy. They all knew that slavery would have to be addressed. The bill of rights, the very backbone of our democracy was done by amendment. Right? When my grandmothers turned 21 neither of them had the right to vote. Many changes we see as pivotal did not happen for over 100 years after ratification of the constitution. That and slavery together should serve to show us that the original constitution was AT BEST a work in progress. And frankly, if we applied the rules of the 18th century, little of the original constitution remains. Thank God.

I will go farther and say that perhaps the most brilliant, may I say ruse, that the founders built into the constitution was reliance on strong states rights. They knew, though did not often say as far as I can see, that though the protection of some slavery was built into the rights of states to regulate slavery, its abolition was built in as well. They knew that some states would ban slavery and that that was a good start.

One thing is certain though. The OP asserts that there are some rights that the founders saw as above regulation by any civil law including the constitution. This is obviously and quite clearly untrue. They named these rights and very specifically qualified them. Voting for landowners but not everyone. The age at which one can vote/hold office. The gender and race of those who could exercise franchise. That searches were not banned but required to be "reasonable". That firearm ownership was somehow connected to the notion of a state militia. Frankly there were no "rights" whatsoever that were exempt from the exception in some circumstances.

So the OP fails to carry his point BECAUSE the founders speak against his premise in word and deed.

Shortly after Trump was elected and we could see the train wreck coming I stumbled on a letter from John Adams to his wife. I was gobsmacked.

“I do not say that democracy has been more pernicious on the whole, and in the long run, than monarchy or aristocracy. Democracy has never been and never can be so durable as aristocracy or monarchy; but while it lasts, it is more bloody than either. … Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide. It is in vain to say that democracy is less vain, less proud, less selfish, less ambitious, or less avaricious than aristocracy or monarchy. It is not true, in fact, and nowhere appears in history. Those passions are the same in all men, under all forms of simple government, and when unchecked, produce the same effects of fraud, violence, and cruelty. When clear prospects are opened before vanity, pride, avarice, or ambition, for their easy gratification, it is hard for the most considerate philosophers and the most conscientious moralists to resist the temptation. Individuals have conquered themselves. Nations and large bodies of men, never.”
― John Adams, The Letters of John and Abigail Adams

So Mr. OP. The founders saw it coming.





So remember

[The Resister]

@The Resister

Vermont was not recognised as a state at that time.

Anyway, history is full of examples of people being alienated from the rights of life and liberty.

Those who outlawed slavery recognized their own jurisdiction. The rest of your position is semantics to avoid the facts.

[The Resister]

You have to remember @Pants-of-dog that @The Resister is a racist. He is looking for some justification for slavery in the colonies. There is none other than the founders were almost to a man convinced racists. It grieves him that his heroes were wrong about something and, because his entire theory revolves around the concept of the inerrancy of the words of the founders, is looking for convoluted and frankly childish excuses for their behavior. The nnotion that because some fledgling states banned slavery somehow excuses the founders from responsibility is foolish. It is also fooling to assert that slavery was OK because, you know, everybody is doing it.

Jefferson knew that what he was doing was wrong. Never mind that the 14 year old child he chose to rape, Sally Hemmings, was his wife's half sister. Fun to contemplate that, isn't it? Jefferson knew of the feelings of his close friend John Adams who said, when Jefferson's continued rape of Hemmings was revealed in the press, "“The story of [Sally Hemings] is a natural and almost unavoidable Consequence of that foul contagion (pox) in the human Character Negro Slavery.”



No the founders knew that slavery was a bad thing, that they ought to abolish it, that rights should be the same for whites and blacks but that slavery was simply a bargaining chip on the table of the adoption of the constitution. They even cynically allowed a number value (percentage of a white male) that a slave ought to be.

The founders did not at all believe in universal human rights. Not even a little. Their overblown rhetoric notwithstanding.

Oh and by the way. They affirmatively did not believe that all human rights extended to women. Not even white women.

I don't need you to speak for me. If you want to call me a racist, then there is something cowardly and dishonest about your character. Making personal insults and violating the rules may be your forte' but it takes a low life POS to call someone names without asking them how they feel about a subject.

I present the facts. If you don't like them, that's on you.

Most of you reading this had grandparents that had children by the age of 14. It was considered natural at that time in history. To call Jefferson a pedophile means that many of you had grand parents, great grand parents, etc. that were (by today's standards) pedophiles. That is simply a fact.

This dr.lee is proving to want to troll me. Well, okay. Let's go into drlee's home for a few minutes. Did you know that the OVERWHELMING majority of the junk in his house (electronics, furniture, clothes, etc.) were made in racist countries and /or communist countries that employ slave labor? How many products do each of you buy that say "Made in China?" Over 98 percent of the people in China are Han Chinese. By drlee's insanity, how many of you are racists by not doing something about it... like say, not buying stuff that says "Made in China?" There are more Chinese in China than there are white people on the face of the earth. drlee's computer was probably made with parts made in China. So, maybe he's the racist here.

How many of you buy products that say "Made in Japan?" The Japanese profess to be the most racially pure nation in the world. Are any of you racists just because you purchase products made there because that is the way trade and the market is right now?

How about stuff made in Korea? Both North and South Korea are over 98 percent homogeneous. But, somehow America was filled with lowlifes when it was a white controlled country. The level of hypocrisy and dishonesty that emanates from the keyboards of liberal hatemongers should make any Liberty loving American want to vomit. Americans don't fret over the current racial policies of the countries they do business with. They are only worried about demonizing the white people of this country.

When the 56 men who signed the Declaration of Independence presented it to King George, only 4 percent or so of the colonists supported it. As its principles were discussed and debated, the United States began to change.

drlee cannot have a civil discussion without wallowing in the mud and calling me names. I would return the favor, but if you look closely, he is deflecting and projecting and it is a sign of weakness. He does not want anyone to consider The Charter and Proclamation of the Rights of Man because he fears that which he cannot understand. Such mental midgetry fails to impress anyone with an IQ higher than their shoe size, so think it over. I wonder how many times drlee filled the gas tank of his car with gasoline produced in Saudi Arabia. Women there didn't get the right to vote until 2011. Ask drlee to show you his many posts denouncing that.

The road to Freedom and Liberty is a journey, not a destination. No matter how hard we try, we won't be perfect, but that's no reason to settle for drlee's Hell on Earth utopia of socialism, despair, and inequalities. Refusing to demand your Rights as guaranteed under the social contract known as the Constitution of the United States means that you accept tyranny and oppression on the installment plan. The last thing I need is an uneducated troll trying to tell you what I think. I am fully capable of expressing my own views. The difference between a POS and an honest man is that an honest man will only insult you to your face. He doesn't hide behind administrators and moderators while he spews his venomous hatred. Projection and deflection drlee. You're fooling nobody except yourself.

[The Resister]

@The Resister I am not at all putting nothing, nor provoking You to come upfront with anything, but just concluding where Your good intention goes i.e. knowing who owns usA how knowing that the same skim on west was in motion for more than three centuries little by little unraveling till the current circumstances, and what to say else than Your good will is doable only by revolution, finally what You've admit that is unavoidable if the authorities dont implement constitution and its foundation declaration together literally, hm as in case with the advice to ckaihatsu [1] dont see revolution as way out, dont forget in what time we live and what kind of tech is in hands of the shadowy elites who You think they will allow to be introduced such liberal rights, hm they will just more and more denounce the current one till they dont put in effect their long dreamed n'w'o skim, as pointed earlier even if they as globalist elites are removed stil even neocons will not allow such interpretation coz that will mean any county to have right on declaring independence, haha they will not allow even states on such move what about some village, are You getting me

on other hand what I dont get is why all of You are still bragging about slavery, as if they were or not proslavery that will change something, as founders or later as statesman they were seeing to ensure citizens to have guaranteed freedom, altho in different time had have different view who how can become citizen [1] yet regarding abolishing slavery think they as elites were misused by the prime "enlighters" who were seeking to put in motion simple skim how masses as free to be easily controlled through the wages [2] i.e. money to have the crucial role so bancsters as the true rulers behind the scenes will not have to bother with loyal soldiers (slaves) to some farming capitalist in usA i.e. wage slavery suite them extra (as back then so as nowadays) i.e. instead to bribe many with much simply bough them all by speculations or controlled profit making and eventually like that holding hostage masses thus easily controllable!

finally its Your thread and Your Free Will what You want to achieve how, dont need to debate me at all, I've just jump in so would point that the true usA elites i.e. freemasons were never after liberty, at least not those that were pulling the strings, but as neopagans were after dismantling Christianity, if we have this in mind that defacto is spiritual battle in question then take a look in The Revelation how the same will end, so dont waste time thinking that You can change something through the false liberal ideology which just served to be overthrown vatican or royalists supremacy on west by the teutons (which hold the bancorp nucleus in usA as always in uK too through city'of'london etc.) so in the end never were in question some true liberty ideals but true skim for power control, yet I cant say that all who followed their skim knew about the same and actually many were bearers of true enlightenment spirit in their deeds, even nowadays many cant understand who is real stirrer behind the scenes! if You really want to become freedom fighter I'll suggest join Christianity With All Your Hearth because we are not even in war with some elites by fallen spirits that through our Gift Of The Free Will succeeded to grab many, thus revolutionary eradicatin any of their puppets will not remove them as puppet masters, so if You want true change strive for Inchurched Life and attack every evil source through Invoking Extra Holy Grace upon this world ...

By occupation I am a minister. So, you're preaching to the choir when it comes to who has temporary control over this country. I cede NOTHING to Satan nor the cowards that attack me without knowledge, perspective, and an honest quest for the truth. You think that this outlandish way you use the English language is something people can relate to, but it isn't.

You cannot change the cycles of history. Insofar as Masonry, it gets more credit than it deserves. Most of the time the people forget that most of the people involved in the founding of this country were NOT Masons. That's not to say that the Masons didn't have substantial influence in the final product. Patrick Henry refused to sign the Constitution, saying that he "smelt a rat." I'm not here to defend the Republicans or the Democrats; left or right; liberal or conservative. I can only tell you that you claim your Rights OR you willingly choose to become a slave. If any American loves Liberty and Freedom, they will work with me. If not, they consent to be ruled by tyrants.

[Pants-of-dog]

Those who outlawed slavery recognized their own jurisdiction. The rest of your position is semantics to avoid the facts.

Sure.

Lots of people believe in unalienable or inalienable rights. I have never seen a good argument for them.

Have a good day.

[Odiseizam]

@The Resister You need to be honest are You asking for revolution, if so for that You will find greater support among ultra left guerillas than any ultra right wing liberal, simply patriots will follow only party linea knowing that only from with in (like that at least holding some heavy weapons) is possible to be challenged the banc'corp elites, aside that even them is question how they will act knowing that in hours usA can be bankrupted by the deep swamp!

anyway have or not followers You need also honestly to quote ThomasJ "the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. it is it's natural manure" what points to uprising, if so You need too say exactly as have freemasons when rushed for "liberation from vatican" with their motto "freedom or death" which "freemasonic slogan is enlightenment mood related to Lady Liberty, in romanticism it was used in American Revolution [1][1] there is some suggestions that is taken from poetic expression [1] but think that its origins are from antiquity "“Freedom or death” – those three words are famously inscribed in popular culture and associated with the historical figure of Spartacus" [1]" borrowed quote from historum [1]

and even You succeed, again that would mean extra amount of casualties, not just locally but globally, if we know that freemasons and zaonists if sense they are loosing ground will do everything in their power to stir ww3 so they would execute the long dreamed n'w'o ideal, so in the end again You will get some tyrant to rule over the unalienable rights except the masses, and thats why I am suggesting try reinvent the system from within altho for that one need to get devoted in thinking not raging, think already pointed if many focus and support introduction of True Open Society [7] in your case lawyers at least referendum can lead to local if not federal reintroduction of the unalienable natural rights ...

somehow this revolution scream mids these times always smells to me like deep state skim, even in case with the capitol storm thing was pushed likewise, altho one need Christian Patience so he would understand this and at least see the true moment for such momentum, but as recent history contest in every such event secrete service stooges were throwing people as pigeons to wolfs so it would be silenced any momentum build up in front before it gets enough power so when will burst will cover all system as citizen tsunami, I'll quote useful point by Collins Brothers shared on DTT "dont be naive" fighting evil with evil will not lead to freedom but new greater tyranny, dont forget we live in the beginning of the last times so focus on Spiritual Freedom and Salvation just like that You can reach the utmost help from above, but how if one wants to keep in life the freemasonic constitution, what to say think twice, who is father of revolution, where will lead such to, try debate with calm than angry mind, tho its Your Free Will but be careful through hate not to loose Grace and like that You and those who will follow You fell from the revolution cliff!

someone intentionally is spinning that hate and many fall for it, as is pointed in the Collins Brothers interview check your christian zealotry heads!

[The Resister]

Sure.

Lots of people believe in unalienable or inalienable rights. I have never seen a good argument for them.

Have a good day.

If you're happy and you know it, clank your chains. I prefer to be the master of my own destiny. With just the Right to Life alone, the government has no legitimate reason to enslave you. I'm hoping to spend the rest of my life surrounded by people that reject the accepted notion that the government owns them. Have a great life.