The Wuhan virus—how are we doing? - Page 67 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Provision of the two UN HDI indicators other than GNP.
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#15138625
Pants-of-dog wrote:I doubt this assertion of yours is correct.


Doubt all you want, it doesn't suit your narrative if it's bolstered by made up stories by mentally ill attention seekers which she appears to be. Her work cannot even be verified with the hospital during the time she discusses. It's a story soon to be memory holed if it hasn't already been scrubbed.
#15138627
annatar1914 wrote:Doubt all you want, it doesn't suit your narrative if it's bolstered by made up stories by mentally ill attention seekers which she appears to be. Her work cannot even be verified with the hospital during the time she discusses. It's a story soon to be memory holed if it hasn't already been scrubbed.


Your sole argument is to insult this woman with no evidence.

This is not only a weak argument but also disrespectful to this woman.
#15138629
@Doug64 , you replied;

Are there going to be hardcore Libertarians opposed to mandatory vaccinations? Sure. Are there going to be those that refuse these vaccinations as they do all others due to religious beliefs? Sure (and they should be allowed to do so on Free Exercise grounds, unless the government can show that we can’t reach herd immunity without them). But I haven’t seen any indication that these are anything but a tiny fringe.


But that's not what I said anyway, I'm mainly talking about people opposed to taking vaccines in general, who have really begun to crawl out of the woodwork. Needless to say, I'm not concerned about their ''rights'', so much as I am for the common good of society as a whole. Most people not wearing a mask at this point, for example, are assholes. And most refusing some sort of medicine for this plague (however exaggerated or not) will also be assholes.

Meanwhile, the latest Gallup poll has 34% of the US declaring themselves to be Conservatives (which many of these varieties of anti-vaxxers wouldn’t)


Bull, not in my neck of the woods, that's for sure! They're all of the ''Conservative'' or ''Right-Wing Libertarian'' persuasion.

while Liberals came in at 26%. I would say that as a percentage of the plurality ideology, the numbers opposed to the vaccine can’t be described as “lots”—more like tiny.


If Biden is elected/selected President, you just watch. It'll be like a conservative badge of honor to refuse any possible mandatory vaccine.
#15138632
Pants-of-dog wrote:Your sole argument is to insult this woman with no evidence.

This is not only a weak argument but also disrespectful to this woman.


The story appears to have already been scrubbed, along with commentary on her veracity. As I said, in 20 years of working in health care, particularly in hospice and for agencies myself, I discovered that many of my co-workers were basically unemployable anywhere else, usually because of mental issues/drug problems. And I understand full well that stress doesn't always bring out the best side of some of these people either, unfortunately.
#15138633
annatar1914 wrote:The story appears to have already been scrubbed, along with commentary on her veracity. As I said, in 20 years of working in health care, particularly in hospice and for agencies myself, I discovered that many of my co-workers were basically unemployable anywhere else, usually because of mental issues/drug problems. And I understand full well that stress doesn't always bring out the best side of some of these people either, unfortunately.


Again, I am not going to bother with your insults towards people.

If you have evidence, please post it. If not, please note that I will ignore your insults from now on.
#15138636
Pants-of-dog wrote:Again, I am not going to bother with your insults towards people.

If you have evidence, please post it. If not, please note that I will ignore your insults from now on.


Like I said, commentary on the story you mentioned and the story itself have been scrubbed it appears. That's what happens to stories in the MSM that are too-obvious bullshit even to liberal ''journalists''.
#15138648
annatar1914 wrote:If Biden is elected/selected President, you just watch. It'll be like a conservative badge of honor to refuse any possible mandatory vaccine.

Naw, they’ll say it’s actually Trump's vaccine and Biden is just the delivery boy.
#15138651
And look at China now for example, Vietnam, South Korea-thousands of people doing just fine, maskless and returning to normal life after ''draconian'' lockdowns and mask mandates, among other measures.


Well sort of. Mask wearing in Asia has been the norm for quite some time. But I agree that our lukewarm approach to this has resulted in the horrible place in which we find ourselves. If you think about it mask use is literally "the least we can do".

@Doug64 insists on framing this subject in political terms. That is precisely what the fascists in the Republican Party want him to do. He posted some nonsense about percentages of liberals and conservatives which just shows where the argument has gone for people on the right.

Will avoiding vaccine become a badge of honor for those on the right? Probably. And many of them will die and suffer lifetime disability for their ignorance. Or if not ignorance for their slavish dedication to labels that are, frankly, useless.

@Doug64 said: Any assertions that free speech should be curtailed and information suppressed because many people are biased, ill-informed, and/or stupid, is an assertion that free speech as a principle is a threat to society rather than a fundamental human right.


But this is not the question at all though I am sure he wants it to be. The question is whether or not highly partisan "news" organizations should be allowed to deliberately mislead people for profit. If he wishes to allow us to revoke the license of these for profit organizations when they deliberately or negligently defraud the American people perhaps.....

In time of war or national emergency it is important for government and industry to speak with one voice. Not to suppress facts but to place before the people the very best information we have. Doug's shallow and uninformative "study" can cost lives. He could not care less. Rather than considering the facts I posted he just doubles down on his right-wing sound bites and he justifies this by trying to divert the argument to one about free speech. It is a murderous tack to take.

Naw, they’ll say it’s actually Trump's vaccine and Biden is just the delivery boy.


Giving Trump credit for the vaccine is like giving the captain of the Titanic credit for....oh never mind. He won't get the reference anyway.
#15138751
And look at China now for example, Vietnam, South Korea-thousands of people doing just fine, maskless and returning to normal life after ''draconian'' lockdowns and mask mandates, among other measures.
:eh: They are not maskless. They are still observing social distancing, where they can, wearing masks, contact tracing, etc. What you are saying is simply untrue.

*I was in Udon Thani(Thailand), yesterday, where I went to the main shopping mall to get some electronics. You cannot get in without wearing a mask, signing in(contact tracing) and having your temp taken. You are denied entry if you have a fever or refuse to wear a mask. 75% of people are wearing masks when it is completely unnecessary, now.

Udon Thani(the province as well as the city), has not had a Covid-19 case since April, and Thailand has been in single digit infection rate for over 7 months. 3,902 infections, to date, with only 60 deaths(still a 1.5% death rate).

China is still following the same protocols, as is Vietnam, and other SE Asian countries. Pretending otherwise is what ignorant Westerners like to to, in order to promote an anti-mask, FreeDumb, narrative.


You're the stupid one, @QatzelOk. You like to deny reality to fit your conspiracy theories and narrative that implies you are the only one "woke". :knife:
Last edited by Godstud on 22 Nov 2020 02:19, edited 1 time in total.
#15138763
@Godstud, can you verify that was my post? I don't remember it and I don't use dashes like that, I use double dashes (--) or long solid dashes (if I'm using my Ipad).
#15138769
Godstud wrote:You're the stupid one, @QatzelOk. You like to deny reality to fit your conspiracy theories and narrative that implies you are the only one "woke". :knife:

Do you even have a runny nose?

Does anyone?

Seriously, can a pandemic happen even if it's just text-based?

I thought people had to actually get sick.

(I guess I'm either stupid, or not stupid enough. But whatever it is, tell me how I can improve please.)
#15138775
QatzelOk wrote:(I guess I'm either stupid, or not stupid enough. But whatever it is, tell me how I can improve please.)
You are the former.

Stop trying to change reality to fit your stupid narratives.


@Doug64 I have corrected the error.
#15138778
Godstud wrote:You are the former.

Stop trying to change reality to fit your stupid narratives.


@Doug64 I have corrected the error.


@Godstud , I'm the one you were replying to. I recall reading recent articles on China's recovery process and seeing many maskless people at social gatherings and the like. Nonetheless i'm sure efforts are still in place and many people remaining masked and all, in the common effort to fight this plague. One cannot compare the responses East and West: it's a definite cultural difference and unfortunately in the West one that has resulted in more sick and dead.
#15138779
@annatar1914 When there are no infections around, a lot of the precautions are not required. isn't that logical to you?

If there are no recorded cases in my province, for instance, I should not have to wear a mask, and yet I do where it is required.

Wearing masks isn't about yourself, but others.
#15138783
Godstud wrote:@annatar1914 When there are no infections around, a lot of the precautions are not required. isn't that logical to you?

If there are no recorded cases in my province, for instance, I should not have to wear a mask, and yet I do where it is required.

Wearing masks isn't about yourself, but others.


Indeed I have no problem with that at all, and it's been rather mystifying to me that any of this has been so politicized.
#15138784
Anti-science, anti-mask... it's all about selfish people trying to make themselves feel better, and not thinking about those around them. The countries where they have had successful lockdowns, are where they care more about the people around them, than their own selfish needs. The same applies to mask use, social distancing, etc.
#15138786
One cannot compare the responses East and West: it's a definite cultural difference and unfortunately in the West one that has resulted in more sick and dead.


That is true. But consider. We are not asking people to burn their prayer books or learn a new language. We are asking them to wear a mask, maintain physical distancing and wash their hands. This is not earth shattering. It is not even much of an inconvenience. Frankly I do not find wearing a mask an inconvenience at all and certainly, given that I am frequently around sick people, the least I can do to protect others.

The human disaster is that everyday people are simply willing to kill their fellow citizens and even their own family members over some absurd political point.

What if I told you two years ago that there would be a plague upon the land and that rather than try to band together and save hundreds of thousands of lives, we would use the plague to make a political statement that simply shows the utter lack of morals of one group.

Really son. Who here is unwilling to wear a mask so that their fellow citizens do not have to suffer an very painful disease? Then add to that unwillingness the affirmative willingness to put their fellow citizens at risk of death or permanent disability.

@annatar1914 Indeed I have no problem with that at all, and it's been rather mystifying to me that any of this has been so politicized.


Me too. I honestly believed that when the chips were down, Americans would band together and help each other. I am profoundly saddened by this. Stunned. And it seems that the lack of leadership of one man, Trump, has made this happen. Ask yourself. Would people be resisting mask wearing if, early on, Trump had come out with a line of red masks that said, "Make America Well Again"?

History will record Trump's culpability in the deaths of what will turn out to be half a million Americans.
#15138792
Drlee wrote:That is true. But consider. We are not asking people to burn their prayer books or learn a new language. We are asking them to wear a mask, maintain physical distancing and wash their hands. This is not earth shattering. It is not even much of an inconvenience. Frankly I do not find wearing a mask an inconvenience at all and certainly, given that I am frequently around sick people, the least I can do to protect others.

The human disaster is that everyday people are simply willing to kill their fellow citizens and even their own family members over some absurd political point.

What if I told you two years ago that there would be a plague upon the land and that rather than try to band together and save hundreds of thousands of lives, we would use the plague to make a political statement that simply shows the utter lack of morals of one group.

Really son. Who here is unwilling to wear a mask so that their fellow citizens do not have to suffer an very painful disease? Then add to that unwillingness the affirmative willingness to put their fellow citizens at risk of death or permanent disability.



Me too. I honestly believed that when the chips were down, Americans would band together and help each other. I am profoundly saddened by this. Stunned. And it seems that the lack of leadership of one man, Trump, has made this happen. Ask yourself. Would people be resisting mask wearing if, early on, Trump had come out with a line of red masks that said, "Make America Well Again"?

History will record Trump's culpability in the deaths of what will turn out to be half a million Americans.


@Drlee

All good points, and I'm very saddened by this as well, deeply. I think that while some of the solutions to these problems could be structural, the real problem lies in the cultural and spiritual realm, upstream from politics. We have been expecting salvation on this earth by means of politicians, political messiahs, and all they turn out to be are senseless idols which lead to destruction. I'm no Liberal, but I'll take an boring establishment politician past his prime over an arrogant amateur who is like a bull in a china shop, pun intended. The Founders believed in popular freedom, but they also expected a trained and educated elite to run things as public servants, a Republic, not a Democracy run by Populist Demogogues at the head of a senseless mob.
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