Parental rights and vaccines - Page 22 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14960084
ness31 wrote:Just to be totally perverse I don’t even think there is a link between autism and vaccines. They just happen to occur at the same time imo.


What's your opinion based on? Not much as far as I can tell. The fact is we just don't know because it hasn't been properly studied.

The autism link was a stupid platform to carry any kind of pro choice/anti vaccine argument.


It's not just autism, there are a host of disorders and conditions that are correlated with vaccination including -

“autoimmune diseases” (which captures “diabetes mellitus, type 1”),
“asthma,”
“hypersensitivity,”
“seizures” or “epilepsy” or “febrile seizures,”
“child developmental disorders, pervasive” (which captures “autistic disorders”),
“learning disorders” or “communications disorders” or “intellectual disability” or “developmental disorders,”
“attention deficit and disruptive behavior disorders,” and
“tics” or “Tourette's syndrome.”

There are studies that show vaccines are implicated in motor and phonic tic disorders but the rest haven't been adequately studied.
https://worldmercuryproject.org/news/th ... hinations/
#14960085
What's your opinion based on? Not much as far as I can tell


Can’t argue with that lol. Unfortunately the austism link is what everyone knows and remembers.

From a totally layman’s perspective I’d put the explosion of food allergies somewhere near the feet of vaccines.

Edit - just to be a bit more specific I’d say vaccines and some of their properties might destroy essential gut flora which then doesn’t allow the proper absorption of nutrients into the system. And that opinion is based on my experience with pet vaccinations. Still totes non scientific..
#14960086
Sivad posted some quotes taken out of context. He has failed to post WHY these recommendations were made. I would oppose any study that's goal was to prove that guns kill people because it would be completely unnecessary.

Then he goes on to conclude the epidemiology is a "weak science" which is an absurdity. I am sure you can find an epidemiologist who says it is. In fact I know one. He is an idiot for saying it but within the community we understand his point. But take the quote out of context and all that is accomplished is that people who don't know better are deliberately mislead.

The list of side-effects that Sivad posts, taken out of context also, is designed to deceive. One of the side effects of eating peanuts is death. If one has a peanut allergy one ought not eat peanuts. There is no reason to convene a very expensive study to tell us what is already settled science.


But, as is the tendency for people who get a bee in their bonnet, he goes off on some wild search for snippets that support his position regardless of the fact that he is simply deceiving himself and others because he does not understand what he is reading.

As was pointed out earlier, there are already guidelines in place to protect those who are vulnerable to side effects of these vaccines. Many. There are also guidelines in effect to protect children from ignorant parents who would put them at risk of dying and killing others in the process.
#14960090
Gary Goldman, Ph.D., presents his varicella vaccine findings and whistleblower experience as a lead research analyst in the Antelope Valley Varicella Active Surveillance Project. He describes how a national chickenpox vaccine program altered the epidemiology of shingles, and ways in which the CDC manipulated data to conceal the unwanted outcomes that occurred.


“In 1995 I was hired as an Epidemiology Analyst on the Antelope Valley Varicella Active Surveillance Project–a joint project of the Los Angeles County Department of Health Services (LACDHS)–Acute Communicable Disease Control Unit and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC, Atlanta, GA). Initially, I considered it an honor to be part of a team that was to study the effect of the varicella vaccine on the 300,000 residents comprising the Antelope Valley region. While all positive effects of the vaccine were readily approved for publication, it appeared the deleterious effects (e.g., increases in shingles incidence among unvaccinated children and adults that had natural varicella) were being suppressed. After 8 years, I resigned from my employment so as to publish all the results and not be a party to what I perceived as research fraud–with the sponsors of the research seemingly squashing objective research and dictating published outcomes. I was served a notice to “cease and desist” publication of the results in a medical journal, but overcame that objection and the studies were indeed published. Both the LACDHS and CDC continued (unsuccessfully) to interfere and attempt to prevent publication of manuscripts after they had already been accepted and approved for publication by various medical journal editors. Intervention of my attorney was necessary in some cases.”
– Gary Goldman, Ph.D.
#14960106
So, I just read that report Sivad posted on the safety of vaccination schedules, holy moly, that was intense reading mainly due to its repetitive nature...but maybe that is the nature of scientific journals?

What I gathered was, yes, vaccines in and of themselves are safe. Are the vaccination schedules themselves safe, as in the frequency, timing and combination of vaccines? No one really knows as there has never been data collected on it. Kind of gobsmacked by that.

So what’s going to happen? They’re implementing a “state of the art communication plan” to assist in public confidence. I hope that means sending parents out flyers of every single ingredient of every single vaccine and the possible effects and relationships each vaccine can have with each other.
#14960118
@1:38:00

Walter Spitzer epidemiologist and professor of epidemiology and health at McGill University, 1975-1995

From 1969 to 1975, Spitzer was a faculty member at McMaster University.[1] He was appointed a faculty member at McGill in 1975, and was credited with bringing its Department of Epidemiology and Biostatistics to "new, more collegial premises".[3] He chaired this department from 1984 to 1993.[4] He was the founding co-editor of the Journal of Chronic Diseases in 1982, which he and co-editor Alvan Feinstein renamed the Journal of Clinical Epidemiology in 1988. They served as the journal's co-editors until 1994.[5] Spitzer was also the chair of the Quebec Task Force on Spinal Disorders, convened in 1983.[6] He was elected to the Institute of Medicine in 1985.[7]

Spitzer was noted for his research into the potential adverse effects of oral contraceptives.[8][9] He has also been credited as a major figure in the development of the modern system of evidence-based medicine, along with Archie Cochrane and David Sackett.
#14960136
ness31 wrote:But there is something wrong POD. Mandated vaccination and the usurping of parental discretion is a violation of a humans personal sovereignty. It is that basic and it is that serious. And nothing in this thread or any WHO website would be able to convince a real Conservative otherwise.


Since vaccination is not mandated, this is a strawman.

It seems you and @Sivad are simply ignoring previous arguments and rebuttals and just bringing up new ones.

Both of you seem to have completely abandoned your argument about the IOM halting investigation into adverse effects.
#14960226
I stand corrected. Not mandated, just blackmailing a population by cutting off their welfare and barring their children from education and formal socialisation with their peers until they tow the line.
Geez, speaking of straw, why don’t you take that gigantic rafter out your eye.

Read the report Sivad posted. That might help to clear your vision.
#14960228
ness31 wrote:I stand corrected. Not mandated, just blackmailing a population by cutting off their welfare and barring their children from education and formal socialisation with their peers until they toe the line.


If a person refuses to get immunised, they should not be allowed where they can infect children and be infected by children. You can do what you want with yourself and your kids. You cannot impose your unnecessary risk taking on other people’s children.

Geez, speaking of straw, why don’t you take that gigantic rafter out your eye.


:roll:

Read the report Sivad posted. That might help to clear your vision.


You are confused. He did not post a report. He posted some out of context quotes from a book.

I was the one who posted the report from the IOM. It directly contradicts @Sivad’s claim about the IOM trying to halt investigation into the adverse effects of vaccines.
#14960229
The Childhood Immunization Schedule and Safety: Stakeholder Concerns, Scientific Evidence, and Future Studies.
Committee on the Assessment of Studies of Health Outcomes Related to the Recommended Childhood Immunization Schedule; Board on Population Health and Public Health Practice; Institute of Medicine.
Washington (DC): National Academies Press (US); 2013 Mar 27.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK206942/

Im sorry, I thought Sivad posted this.
#14960270
Pants-of-dog wrote: he quoted those out of context quotes.


I didn't quote out of context.

The director of NIH made the same exact criticism of the IOM's recommendations
@3:45



I love how you people just make up crazy shit to ignore any and all evidence that doesn't fit your worldview. You're like flat earthers or creationists. It's that kind of militant idiocy that makes everything stupid.
#14960273
I'm through with this thread. Let Sivad try to murder children by posting information that parents do not understand. He lacks the moral compass to understand what he is doing and the scientific knowledge to understand what he is reading. He is an amateur infatuated with disgruntled people.

Go ahead folks. Have fun. I am tired of arguing with amateurs.
Last edited by Drlee on 06 Nov 2018 02:37, edited 1 time in total.
#14960278
Pants-of-dog wrote:Yes, @Sivad, you made out of context quotes


Here's an IOM quote for ya “Stakeholders concerns do not warrant the initiation of high cost studies.”
#14960283
The context of those quotes is the IOM dismissing all parents who claim their children were permanently injured by vaccines as cranks, the IOM ignoring every study that shows "biologically plausible pathways" of vaccine injury, and the IOM claiming that conducting actual science is too costly and difficult to bother with.

But if I am taking those quotes out of context it shouldn't be too hard to show how I'm misinterpreting the report. You're not going to do that though because we both know that you're just a bullshitter that can't back up any of your claims with reason or evidence.
#14960285
Vaccines are the most effective and safe health care interventions in history. OK listen up dummies. Thanks to all those exasperating parents who dare to question vaccine safety the IOM has released a thorough and objective report on the safety of childhood immunizations.

Vaccines are the greatest health breakthrough of the 20th century. In order to ensure the objectivity of this report the IOM committee excluded all parents of any child injured by vaccines, as well as all experts in pediatric toxicology and environmental science in general. Relieved right? The committee members, instead, included: experts in women’s reproductive health, immigration, technology, torts, cloning, immunization program officers and inventors as well as organ transplant experts. OK? Satisfied! This crew knows their stuff so you can feel fully confident in their extensive expertise on adverse vaccination reactions. Happy now?

Vaccines are the most important health breakthrough of all time! Along with this very balanced group of experts, stakeholders were allowed to testify in front of the committee. The “stakeholders” included vaccine makers, vaccine patent holders, vaccine distributors, parents who love this highly aggressive vaccine schedule (and believe you me they were hard to find but we did it!) as well as 1 parent of a vaccine injured child, Barbara Loe Fisher. Ok, totally level playing field right? The fact that vaccine safety is the number one health concerns of all new parents was more than fairly represented. So you are welcome! We bent over backwards to accommodate you people!

Vaccines are sacred. Ok so there you are- a highly diverse body of stakeholders – a dozen vaccine salespeople and Barbara Loe Fisher. Perfect! Who could ask for more?

Vaccines save lives! Needless to say our committee poured over the work of noted vaccine safety experts: Eric Fombonne (professional testifier against children in vaccine court), DeStanfo (CDC vaccine representative), Trotter, Tse, O’Leary (ardent foes of vaccine safety research and hysterical defenders of all vaccines all the time). And finally we really emphasized the critical work of CDC partner and indicted criminal, yes, the one and only Dr. Poul Thorsen. Nitpickers have complained that because of his thievery and deliberately misleading research practices, the Thorsen studies should now be referred to as Madsen studies. Ok, fine. “Madsen”/ Thorsen’s apprentice worked hand and hand with the Danish Serum (Vaccine) Institut on his excellent and thoroughly objective research.

We want to start testing the Anthrax vaccine on American children now, asap, (true!). We know you moaners out there would complain that our research was heavily biased towards professional vaccine makers and backers so we also skimmed the Dr. Bob Sears “Vaccine” book, which advocates fully informing parents of vaccine side effects . Sears holds no vaccine patents and does not work for a vaccine maker (no wonder his is so misinformed!). FYI we found that his book to be dangerous and we had only negative things to say about it.

Vaccines are the greatest medical innovation of all time. In summary our report concluded:

1) All vaccine makers are required to report adverse effects in their clinical trials. Duh, the vaccine makers almost never report any adverse effects so more proof vaccines are proven to be safe!

2) “Stakeholders concerns do not warrant the initiation of high cost studies.” Exact quote.

3) There are too many research studies on parental concerns regarding vaccine safety and not enough study on parent education re the life saving magic of all vaccines. Almost exact quote.

4) The Internet is dangerous and is the sole reason for the public’s distrust of the infant immunization schedule. Ideally access to all non-CDC approved sites would be verboten. This matter will be revisited at the next IOM meeting.

5) This committee found there is basically no research, none at all, on the safety of the totality of the infant vaccination schedule. Therefore, there is NO proof our vaccine schedule is NOT safe. Your fears put to rest, no doubt. Your welcome!









* The first sentence of every chapter of the IOM report did indeed begin with various versions of “vaccine save lives!” quotes
#14960289
Sivad wrote:Here's an IOM quote for ya “Stakeholders concerns do not warrant the initiation of high cost studies.”



Yes, I even remarked on that particular one and you have yet to address my point.

The IOM was saying that the “stakeholders concerns do not warrant the initiation of high cost studies” if there is no evidence to support the concerns of the stakeholders.

Should we base policy or spend money on all people’s fears, or should we base policy and spend money on credible fears that are supported by evidence, given limited resources?

Sivad wrote:The context of those quotes is the IOM dismissing all parents who claim their children were permanently injured by vaccines as cranks, the IOM ignoring every study that shows "biologically plausible pathways" of vaccine injury, and the IOM claiming that conducting actual science is too costly and difficult to bother with.

But if I am taking those quotes out of context it shouldn't be too hard to show how I'm misinterpreting the report. You're not going to do that though because we both know that you're just a bullshitter that can't back up any of your claims with reason or evidence.


Please provide the text preceding and following each of these quotes.

I tend to quote three paragraphs minimum, with the supporting phrase in the middle paragraph.

When you do that, everyone can see whether or not the quotes support your claim that they are deliberately trying to limit investigations, or if they have rational reasons for each of these statements.

Also, you should provide links to all text that you quote.

This is the link for your last post:
https://www.ageofautism.com/2013/02/kat ... eport.html

Katie Wright, by the way, is the daughter of the man who founded the multi-million dollar charity Autism Speaks. She gets to control all that money if her faction (the Mercurys, I believe they are called) gets to control the charity.
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