Parental rights and vaccines - Page 24 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14979117
The alarming rise in the rate of autism is because what had previously been called retarded is now called autistic.


This is not true.
#14983794
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/26/health/w ... index.html

    As of Sunday, there are 35 confirmed cases of measles in the state of Washington -- an outbreak that has already prompted Gov. Jay Inslee to declare a state of emergency.

    "Measles is a highly contagious infectious disease that can be fatal in small children," Inslee said in his proclamation on Friday, adding that these cases create "an extreme public health risk that may quickly spread to other counties."

    There were 34 cases of the measles in Clark County, which sits on the state's southern border, just across the Columbia River from Portland, Oregon. Officials said 30 of the cases involved people who have not had a measles immunization; the other four are not verified. Of the 34 cases, 24 are children between age 1 and 10. There are also nine suspected cases in Clark County.

    There is also one case in King County, which includes Seattle. While the King County website says the patient, a man in his 50s, is a "suspected case," the governor said in a news release it is a confirmed case of measles.

    In a health alert from King County, it was said the man had recently traveled to Clark County.

    Inslee's proclamation allows agencies and departments to use state resources and "do everything reasonably possible to assist affected areas."

    A news release on the governor's website says the Washington State Department of Health, or DOH, has implemented an infectious disease incident management structure so it can manage the public health aspects of the outbreak through investigations and lab testing.

    The Washington Military Department, the release says, is organizing resources to assist the DOH and local officials in easing the effects on people, property and infrastructure.

    Last week, a person infected with measles attended a Portland Trail Blazers home game in Oregon amid the outbreak. Contagious people also went to Portland International Airport, as well as to hospitals, schools, stores, churches and restaurants across Washington's Clark County and the two-state region, county officials said.

    Most patients with symptoms should call first
    Measles is a contagious virus that spreads through the air through coughing and sneezing. Symptoms such as high fever, rash all over the body, stuffy nose and red eyes typically disappear without treatment within two or three weeks. One or two of every 1,000 children who get measles will die from complications, according to the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

    In 1978, the CDC set a goal to eliminate measles from the United States by 1982. Measles was declared eliminated -- defined by absence of continuous disease transmission for greater than 12 months -- from the United States in 2000.

    But there has been a recent rise in unvaccinated children. The proportion of children receiving no vaccine doses by 2 years old rose from 0.9% among those born in 2011 to 1.3% among those born in 2015, the CDC reported in October.
    The CDC recommends people get the measles, mumps and rubella vaccine to protect against those viruses. The typical recommendations are that children should get two doses of MMR vaccine, the first between 12 to 15 months of age and the second between 4 and 6 years old.
#14983804
The MMR does severely debilitate and can even kill people, we know this. So forced vaccination is no different in principle than holding a mandatory lottery that randomly selects one child to be euthanized as an organ donor to save the lives of many other children.
#14983833
Sivad wrote:The MMR does severely debilitate and can even kill people, we know this.


Please provide evidence for this claim. Thanks.

So forced vaccination is no different in principle than holding a mandatory lottery that randomly selects one child to be euthanized as an organ donor to save the lives of many other children.


And refusing to vaccinate is no different in principle than holding a mandatory lottery that randomly selects many children to be killed or deal with illness and suffering to save no one and only support the ideological stance of some people other than these kids.
#14983837
Pants-of-dog wrote:refusing to vaccinate is no different in principle than holding a mandatory lottery that randomly selects many children to be killed or deal with illness and suffering to save no one and only support the ideological stance of some people


:lol: :lol: :lol:
#14983852
Pants-of-dog wrote:Please provide evidence for this claim. Thanks.


Nobody, not even Paul Offit, claims that vaccines are totally safe and never cause serious injury or death. It's an uncontested fact that all vaccines are "unavoidably unsafe" and that serious injury and death are inevitable with mass vaccination.


And refusing to vaccinate is no different in principle than holding a mandatory lottery that randomly selects many children to be killed or deal with illness and suffering to save no one and only support the ideological stance of some people other than these kids.


It's very different in that it's not mandatory. There are many public health measures we could implement which could reduce suffering and death overall but would be regarded by most people as completely unethical and even totally insane. The organ donor lottery is one such measure, mandatory vaccination is another. We don't do those things because we're not morally deranged authoritarian collectivists willing to maim and murder innocents if the math works out. Life is risk but nobody has the right to coerce others into sacrificing their lives for the collective.
#14983855
Sivad wrote:Nobody, not even Paul Offit, claims that vaccines are totally safe and never cause serious injury or death. It's an uncontested fact that all vaccines are "unavoidably unsafe" and that serious injury and death are inevitable with mass vaccination.


You claimed that the MMR vaccine specifically causes death.

Please provide evidence for this claim.

It's very different in that it's not mandatory.


It is not mandatory by law, but it is just a matter of time before measles, mumps, and rubella outbreaks occur, and that kids will get sick and suffer and/or die.

Also, getting vaccinated is also not mandatory.

There are many public health measures we could implement which could reduce suffering and death overall but would be regarded by most people as completely unethical and even totally insane. The organ donor lottery is one such measure, mandatory vaccination is another. We don't do those things because we're not morally deranged authoritarian collectivists willing to maim and murder innocents if the math works out. Life is risk but nobody has the right to coerce others into sacrificing their lives for the collective.


This rant seems without argument.

I noticed that you did not disagree that foregoing vaccines helps no one and the only benefit is ideological.
#14983861
Pants-of-dog wrote:You claimed that the MMR vaccine specifically causes death.

Please provide evidence for this claim.


You don't seem to understand how this works. I don't need to prove anything to you here, if I make an uncontroversial statement on some point of common knowledge and you refuse to accept it your obtuse ignorance is your problem not mine.



Also, getting vaccinated is also not mandatory.


It is in many places around the world.


I noticed that you did not disagree that foregoing vaccines helps no one and the only benefit is ideological.


I can't address all of your stupid bullshit in one post. You load your posts with so much stupid bullshit that it would be a full time job to even address a fraction of it.
#14983865
Sivad wrote:You don't seem to understand how this works. I don't need to prove anything to you here, if I make an uncontroversial statement on some point of common knowledge and you refuse to accept it your obtuse ignorance is your problem not mine.


So no evidence. Okay.

While some vaccines may have a slght chance of causing death, I do not think the MMR is one of them.

It is in many places around the world.


Where?

Not in Canada or the USA.

I can't address all of your stupid bullshit in one post. You load your posts with so much stupid bullshit that it would be a full time job to even address a fraction of it.


How does foregoing vaccines help anyone? Please explain.
#14983872
Pants-of-dog wrote:So no evidence. Okay.

While some vaccines may have a slght chance of causing death, I do not think the MMR is one of them.




serious complications reported by Merck in MMR vaccine post-marketing surveillance include:3

brain inflammation (encephalitis) and encephalopathy (chronic brain dysfunction);
panniculitis (inflammation of the fat layer under the skin);
atypical measles; syncope (sudden loss of consciousness, fainting);
vasculitis (inflammation of the blood vessels);
pancreatitis (inflammation of the pancreas);
diabetes mellitus;
thrombocytopenia purpura (blood disorder);
leukocytosis (high white blood cell count);
anaphylaxis (shock);
bronchial spasms;
arthritis and arthralgia (joint pain);
myalgia (muscle pain);
polyneuritis (inflammation of several nerves simultaneously).

As of March 31, 2018, there have been more than 89,355 reports of measles vaccine reactions, hospitalizations, injuries and deaths following measles vaccinations made to the federal Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS),including 445 related deaths, 6,196 hospitalizations, and 1,657 related disabilities. Over 60% of those adverse events occurred in children three years old and under. Adverse events following MMR vaccination reported to VAERS include:

lupus (autoimmune connective tissue disorder);
Guillain-Barre syndrome (inflammation of the nerves);
Encephalitis;
aseptic meningitis (inflammation of the lining of the brain);
deafness;
cardiomyopathy (weakening of the heart muscle);
hypotonic-hyporesponsive episodes (collapse/shock);
convulsions;
subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE);
ataxia (loss of ability to coordinate muscle movements);
parathesia (numbness, burning, prickling, itching, tingling skins sensation indicating nerve irritation)
Transverse Myelitis
Acute disseminated encephalomyelitis (ADEM)

There have also been 397 deaths reported to VAERS in association with the MMR vaccine. However, the numbers of vaccine-related injuries and deaths reported to VAERS may not reflect the true number of serious health problems that occur develop after MMR vaccination.
https://www.nvic.org/vaccines-and-disea ... death.aspx
#14983888
Pants-of-dog wrote:Where?

Not in Canada or the USA.



The US has Mandatory vaccinations in two states, and about a dozen or so European countries have it as well.

Since then, vaccine mandates have evolved to include a variety of incentives and penalties. In some US states, children cannot access public schools without being vaccinated; in Australia, compliance with childhood immunisation schedules has been linked to pre-school admission (‘No jab, no play’) and to family assistance payments (‘No jab, no pay’).

In most instances where vaccine mandates are in force, they apply only to childhood immunisation. However, vaccination is a condition of employment in some institutions – notably in healthcare facilities. This is not a legal mandate per se but is a form of discrimination accepted in several jurisdictions. In principle, mandates – like vaccines – can be for people of all ages.

The state of play in Europe

In Europe, the picture is mixed. A 2010 study of 27 EU countries (plus Iceland and Norway) found that 15 had no mandatory vaccines. In the meantime, Italy has added 10 vaccines to its list of compulsory vaccines; France and Romania are preparing new laws that would penalise parents of unvaccinated children; and Finland will introduce legislation in March 2018 that requires health and social care providers to ensure staff are immunised against measles, varicella, pertussis and influenza.
https://www.vaccinestoday.eu/stories/ma ... rk-europe/
#14983889
Sivad wrote:As of March 31, 2018, there have been more than 89,355 reports of measles vaccine reactions, hospitalizations, injuries and deaths following measles vaccinations made to the federal Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS),including 445 related deaths, 6,196 hospitalizations, and 1,657 related disabilities. Over 60% of those adverse events occurred in children three years old and under. Adverse events following MMR vaccination reported to VAERS include:



So much for evidence eh @Pants-of-dog? :excited:

When are you gonna give this gulagist propaganda a break? Its not even consistent with your marxism anyway.

Imagevia Imgflip Meme Generator
#14983895
Victoribus Spolia wrote:So much for evidence eh @Pants-of-dog? :excited:

When are you gonna give this gulagist propaganda a break? Its not even consistent with your marxism anyway.

Imagevia Imgflip Meme Generator


Are you serious? 445 MMR Vaccine-related deaths 35 cases of measles.
There were over half a million deaths in the world per year in the 1990s. My half a million trumps you puny 445.
The reason why there are only 35 cases of measles (which btw it is not accurate, according to the CDC there were at least 349 in 2018) is precisely because of vaccines. And the reason that this number is not closer to zero, or even zero, is because of brilliant people like you.

Reminds me of the typical patient "doc, since you started me on that BP medication my blood pressure has been beatiful, I don't think I am hypertensive I will stop taking it". Use that brain, it is not there to cushion your skull.

Funny conspiracy theorists. "They want you to buy the vaccines because they make a shitload of money" Offcourse completely ignore that if money was the real issue here, the most profitable was to not make vaccines and then just sell the antibiotics when you get pneumonia, meningitis, ventilators when you get polio.

But the funny thing is, you also complain that pharmaceutical companies don't make vaccines for stuff like HIV "they just want you to sell you more treatment pills, there is no profit in making a vaccine that is 1-3 times shot".

Dude stop with the conspiracy shit.
#14983916
XogGyux wrote:Are you serious? 445 MMR Vaccine-related deaths 35 cases of measles.
There were over half a million deaths in the world per year in the 1990s. My half a million trumps you puny 445.



Most of those 500,000 deaths are due to poverty and underdevelopment related issues, the mortality rate is nowhere near that in developed countries. Serious complications from measles occur at a rate of like 1 in 300,000 in developed countries.

The VAERS numbers are just for the US, your number is for the entire world and the VAERS number is likely much lower than what is actually occurring.

Add to that the fact that vaccines haven't been properly studied for susceptibility subgroups and it's not clear that the MMR is a warranted public health intervention.
#14983922
Sivad wrote:serious complications reported by Merck in MMR vaccine post-marketing surveillance include:3

brain inflammation (encephalitis) and encephalopathy (chronic brain dysfunction);
panniculitis (inflammation of the fat layer under the skin);
atypical measles; syncope (sudden loss of consciousness, fainting);
vasculitis (inflammation of the blood vessels);
pancreatitis (inflammation of the pancreas);
diabetes mellitus;
thrombocytopenia purpura (blood disorder);
leukocytosis (high white blood cell count);
anaphylaxis (shock);
bronchial spasms;
arthritis and arthralgia (joint pain);
myalgia (muscle pain);
polyneuritis (inflammation of several nerves simultaneously).

As of March 31, 2018, there have been more than 89,355 reports of measles vaccine reactions, hospitalizations, injuries and deaths following measles vaccinations made to the federal Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS),including 445 related deaths, 6,196 hospitalizations, and 1,657 related disabilities. Over 60% of those adverse events occurred in children three years old and under. Adverse events following MMR vaccination reported to VAERS include:

lupus (autoimmune connective tissue disorder);
Guillain-Barre syndrome (inflammation of the nerves);
Encephalitis;
aseptic meningitis (inflammation of the lining of the brain);
deafness;
cardiomyopathy (weakening of the heart muscle);
hypotonic-hyporesponsive episodes (collapse/shock);
convulsions;
subacute sclerosing panencephalitis (SSPE);
ataxia (loss of ability to coordinate muscle movements);
parathesia (numbness, burning, prickling, itching, tingling skins sensation indicating nerve irritation)
Transverse Myelitis
Acute disseminated encephalomyelitis (ADEM)

There have also been 397 deaths reported to VAERS in association with the MMR vaccine. However, the numbers of vaccine-related injuries and deaths reported to VAERS may not reflect the true number of serious health problems that occur develop after MMR vaccination.
https://www.nvic.org/vaccines-and-disea ... death.aspx


Because you are quoting an anti-vaccination website, I am going to need to look at the sources used by this opinion piece.

And according to the text you cited, the source is VAERS.

Going to the VAERS website, we see this:
https://vaers.hhs.gov/data.html

    Disclaimer

    Please note that VAERS staff follow-up on all serious and other selected adverse event reports to obtain additional medical, laboratory, and/or autopsy records to help understand the concern raised. However, in general coding terms in VAERS do not change based on the information received during the follow-up process. VAERS data should be used with caution as numbers and conditions do not reflect data collected during follow-up. Note that the inclusion of events in VAERS data does not imply causality.

    For more information, please call the VAERS Information Line toll-free at (800) 822-7967 or e-mail to [email protected].

So, if you think the VAERS data shows a causal link between the vaccines and the deaths, you are using the data incorrectly, according to the people who collected the data.

The question you need to ask yourself is: did the NVIC intentionally misled people, or are they simply too stupid to check these things?

Sivad wrote:The US has Mandatory vaccinations in two states,


Which states?
#14983928
Even though a safe and cost-effective vaccine is available, in 2017, there were 110 000 measles deaths globally, mostly among children under the age of five.
https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-shee ... il/measles

445 deaths? :roll:

The moron who made the meme obviously pulled the number 35 out of their ass, as well.
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