[Potemkin]

@Potemkin, don't forget the part played by sheer dumb luck/acts of God. IIRC, entire species of plants went extinct with the dinosaurs because the asteroid hit after they'd already started germinating. Timing was everything.

Indeed. But even sheer dumb (bad) luck can be thought of as a failure to be resilient enough to adapt to rapidly changing environmental conditions. After all, there's a reason the non-avian dinosaurs did not survive the asteroid impact, yet the crocodiles did. The non-avian dinosaurs had specialised in a lifestyle which was hugely successful in the stable environment of the Cretaceous, yet was fundamentally fragile if that environment were to radically and suddenly change. In other words, they had 'adapted' themselves into extinction.

[QatzelOk]

Darwinism means those who can adapt will survive and procreate, while those unable to adapt will die.

Those whose natural bodies are unable to adapt... will die. That is what "natural" selection means.

Vaccines and lockdowns are adaptations that prevent death.

No. False.

These are interventions that seek to prevent natural causes from causing death - which is the opposite of adaptation. It is a "refusal" to adapt. Like most of our technologies.

The human "refusal to let nature select" is what will cause our species (and many others) to go extinct.

We could, after all, 'adapt' ourselves into extinction. Which 90% of all species have done since life began more than three billion years ago....

I think that is what humanity is currently doing. We're "getting comfortable" with extinction because... our leaders are so insane and dominating that this is the best way to not engage in violence against them.

And humanity has been trained to be "non-violent" which, as well, makes us more technology-dependent and less survival-oriented.

Technology is how humans adapt to their environment,

Technology can be many things, including means of "avoiding adaptation to the enviroment." Example: with climate change, you can just watch more mass media. Mass media provides a way of avoiding uncomfortable truths about impending extinction. So it is what humans are currently "reaching for...."

[Potemkin]

Those whose natural bodies are unable to adapt... will die. That is what "natural" selection means.


No. False.

These are interventions that seek to prevent natural causes from causing death - which is the opposite of adaptation. It is a "refusal" to adapt. Like most of our technologies.

The human "refusal to let nature select" is what will cause our species (and many others) to go extinct.


I think that is what humanity is currently doing. We're "getting comfortable" with extinction because... our leaders are so insane and dominating that this is the best way to not engage in violence against them.

And humanity has been trained to be "non-violent" which, as well, makes us more technology-dependent and less survival-oriented.


Technology can be many things, including means of "avoiding adaptation to the enviroment." Example: with climate change, you can just watch more mass media. Mass media provides a way of avoiding uncomfortable truths about impending extinction. So it is what humans are currently "reaching for...."

Technology allows us both to adapt ourselves to our environment and, more uniquely and importantly, adapt our environment to ourselves. But this too is a 'natural' form of adaptation. Even beavers adapt their environment to their own needs by building dams. We just do it on a much bigger scale, that's all.

[QatzelOk]

Technology allows us both to adapt ourselves to our environment and, more uniquely and importantly, adapt our environment to ourselves.

Yes, but "adapting our environment to our egos" is exactly why we are the first animal to drive thousands of others to extinction with our gadgets.

Even beavers adapt their environment to their own needs by building dams. We just do it on a much bigger scale, that's all.

Beavers use their teeth and claws to build dams. Not chainsaws, imported labor, other species, and advanced composite materials. The "tech" they use is their own bodies.

And even Beavers occasionally cut down too many trees and destroy the ability of their environment to support Beaver life.

By the way, beavers always went extinct in the 19th Century because humans hunted them to make fur hats and perfume ingredients. I'm not sure what role fur hats and perfume play in our survival, but they certainly impacted the species that we sources these supplies from.

And then there's the Giant Beavers, who DID go extinct 10,000 years ago, because they didn't have the wood sawing teeth the smaller beaver species have. As a human, you're thinking "they went extinct because they didn't invent chainsaws or woodsaws." But this would probably have just made them and all other animals go extinct when the Giant-Beaver population reached 100 billion animals, all waving chainsaws. (the Electric chainsaw might have been their last invention before extinction)

[Potemkin]

Yes, but "adapting our environment to our egos" is exactly why we are the first animal to drive thousands of others to extinction with our gadgets.




Beavers use their teeth and claws to build dams. Not chainsaws, imported labor, other species, and advanced composite materials. The "tech" they use is their own bodies.

And even Beavers occasionally cut down too many trees and destroy the ability of their environment to support Beaver life.

By the way, beavers always went extinct in the 19th Century because humans hunted them to make fur hats and perfume ingredients. I'm not sure what role fur hats and perfume play in our survival, but they certainly impacted the species that we sources these supplies from.

And then there's the Giant Beavers, who DID go extinct 10,000 years ago, because they didn't have the wood sawing teeth the smaller beaver species have. As a human, you're thinking "they went extinct because they didn't invent chainsaws or woodsaws." But this would probably have just made them and all other animals go extinct when the Giant-Beaver population reached 100 billion animals, all waving chainsaws. (the Electric chainsaw might have been their last invention before extinction)

Never change, @QatzelOk. Never change.

[Rancid]

Fuck shit. Looks like they are going to pause the J&J. I probably will not get it then.

[B0ycey]

Fuck shit. Looks like they are going to pause the J&J. I probably will not get it then.

Don't panic Rancid. I would say these cases are being found because people are actively trying to find them to monitor if these vaccines are safe right now. I am beginning to think the human race is doomed when 6 cases (so not deaths) is being linked to a vaccine of over 6.8m adminstations and chance isn't being considered by our health organisations at all. But to give people some context, the odds of getting a clot is 0.00009% and greater than a million to one.

Nonetheless I am all for waiting to see if these vaccines are safe, but if the biggest issue from them so far is clots that might be rare but occur naturally in any case, I am more on the side of these vaccines are more safe than the flu jab given the amount of scrutiny they seem to be having placed on them right now. They clots also seem to be found in the under 35s as well, which means if we actually just focus on the vulnerable groups and not vaccinate the under 35s at all, we can research this better and also open up society soon.

[Godstud]

170 million people get the vaccine and doctors say your chances of getting struck by lightning are greater than dying from the vaccine. I wouldn't worry about it, @Rancid.

As for the clotting thing, they've already said that it's lower than the national average so the vaccine might actually decrease chances of blood clots.

[Rancid]

Don't panic Rancid. I would say these cases are being found because people are actively trying to find them to monitor if these vaccines are safe right now. I am beginning to think the human race is doomed when 6 cases (so not deaths) is being linked to a vaccine of over 6.8m adminstations and chance isn't being considered by our health organisations at all. But to give people some context, the odds of getting a clot is 0.00009% and greater than a million to one.

Nonetheless I am all for waiting to see if these vaccines are safe, but if the biggest issue from them so far is clots that might be rare but occur naturally in any case, I am more on the side of these vaccines are more safe than the flu jab given the amount of scrutiny they seem to be having placed on them right now. They clots also seem to be found in the under 35s as well, which means if we actually just focus on the vulnerable groups and not vaccinate the under 35s at all, we can research this better and also open up society soon.

170 million people get the vaccine and doctors say your chances of getting struck by lightning are greater than dying from the vaccine. I wouldn't worry about it, @Rancid.

As for the clotting thing, they've already said that it's lower than the national average so the vaccine might actually decrease chances of blood clots.

I think you guys misunderstood me. I am worried that they are going to cancel my vaccine, not about the blood clots. If it's not paused, I'm taking it.

[Rancid]

FUCK! CVS has halted the J&J.

I'm scheduled with Walgreens (owned by Boots by you UK folk). However, I'm sure Walgreens will follow the CVS lead.

[B0ycey]

FUCK! CVS has halted the J&J.

I'm scheduled with Walgreens (owned by Boots by you UK folk). However, I'm sure Walgreens will follow the CVS lead.

That sucks. Paranoia takes the piss right now. The thing is, everytime we have these pauses in the vaccination program that lasts like a week before the health agency says the benefits outweigh the risk, people then question whether the vaccines are safe. We kind of got away with all the hysteria in the UK because most people could see it was a smear campaign against AZ, but now J&J is getting the flack now, I can see an awful lot of Americans turning down the Vaccine now. Can you imagine the shit Sivad would be posting today if he was still floating about? It would be like Christmas for him. I would laugh, but this kind of mess is our own making. 6 people from 6.8m vaccinations in not something any rational person should worry about. So why has CVS taken this decision?

[Rancid]

So why has CVS taken this decision?

They probably see the writing on the wall. I'm guessing they have information that say's the vaccine will indeed be paused by the FDA/CDC.

[Drlee]

That doesn’t exactly look like a “Fourth Wave” to me.

@Doug64

And you are not an epidemiologist. Why does your ignorance not surprise me.

[wat0n]

They did pause J&J, but I'm not sure about what that rate of clotting is for it. It seems though it may be temporary.

[Pants-of-dog]

I think these pauses on vaccines are due to the lack of medium and long term testing. Since this was impossible during the testing phase, any possible effects of the vaccines are being heavily monitored in real time, and so we see these reactions.

The problem is that people simply read the headlines, and then read their anti-vaxxer uncle’s Facebook posts.

[Rancid]

Noooooooooooooooooooo!!!

Walgreens has officially paused!

Damn it, I'm thinking of going there anyway. Bang on the door "LET ME IN!! LET ME IN!!!"

[B0ycey]

Noooooooooooooooooooo!!!

Walgreens has officially paused!

Damn it, I'm thinking of going there anyway. Bang on the door "LET ME IN!! LET ME IN!!!"

I have just read that people scheduled for J&J will be offered the Monderna or Pfizer vaccines instead. You should be ok Rancid. Biden wants to maintain the 3m vaccinations a day target.

[Rancid]

I have just read that people scheduled for J&J will be offered the Monderna or Pfizer vaccines instead. You should be ok Rancid. Biden wants to maintain the 3m vaccinations a day target.

Yea, it means I'll probably have to drive far as shit to get it though. My wife is going to drive one hour to and one hour from later today to get the Pfiszer.... uuuggghhh I don't want to have to do that!



FUCK,,,, I'm lazy!

[Pants-of-dog]

Here in Alberta, vaccines will nit be available to the general public until May or June.

[Rancid]

Yoooooo!!

I was able to get a pfizer appointment for Sunday. My wife too, so she canceled her long drive for today.

Here in Alberta, vaccines will nit be available to the general public until May or June.

I see.