[Pants-of-dog]

Nope.

Yes, you should have minded your own business.

You do not know what was going on. You are simply assuming things so that you can hate the parents, much like you are assuming things so that you can hate me and @Godstud.

[colliric]

You are a lying piece of shit.

So, in other words, you were making a false allegation of child abuse. Anything to push your FALSE narrative, though, right?

Your own words accusing me of lying and therefore supporting the public abuse I witnessed. You also defended publically abusing children in your first response by telling me "you have no right to complain at all!"(paraphrasing).

Kids being psychologically traumatised in public is somehow NOT abuse to you.

Also it's pretty damn disgusting to suggest a person somehow magically doesn't have kids and "isn't a parent", when they've publically stated they do several times. Regardless of what subsequently occurred. I mean what kind of a human being accuses a person of lying about having a child??? We call people who do such things absolute lowlifes.

Yes, you should have minded your own business.

I guess I should have also minded my own business when I saw a woman dangling her male kid upside down and with a solid concrete floor underneath him and his cranium directly above it. "I didn't know what absolute evil the kid had done that justified the mother holding him upside down like she was about to Tombstone Piledriver him!". Thats what I saw a woman do in public a few years back.

[Pants-of-dog]

@colliric

Again, you are assuming facts that are not in evidence. You have no clue of the child is actually traumatized. You have no clue what the parenting context.

You simply wish to believe it was abuse so that you could use this as a bludgeon against anyone who is trying to reduce infection and transmission of Covid.

[colliric]

It WAS abuse.

Forcing a kid to do something the order kids don't have to do at all is abuse, especially if the kid is cowing in the corner in fetal position crying and fighting back.

Doing that to a child in public in front of other people is psychological abuse. They're going to remember what you did to them for the rest of their life.

That's not discipline, that's child abuse.

If she was capable of doing that in public, she's capable of doing far worse behind locked doors.

Also Godstud's accusation that a person would lie about having children and being a parent is one of the most surprisingly disgusting posts I've ever seen. I mean he knows how absolutely disgusting that is, yet said it anyway. He has no morals.

[Pants-of-dog]

It WAS abuse.

Not necessarily, no. Again, you can not know this without knowing the parenting context.

But if you honestly believe that to be the case, then you have an obligation to report it to the authorities. I strongly suggest you do so, on the off chance that you are correct. Please let us know what the outcome is.

[SpecialOlympian]

Yes they do not fully stop oxygen flow, they make it more difficult to breathe. By how much is unknown.

Lmao come the fuck on dude.

[QatzelOk]

The US has virtually no sense of national identity anymore.

When it DID have national unity, that's because everyone was united in genociding the First Nations, with the occasional witch-burning to motivate everyone to be "scared and compliant""

Later, the same military-created "nation" found unity in killing millions of foreigners in wars all over the earth.

This kind of fake "unity" is the unity of a band of thieves, and not of an actual "nation." A "nation" that is worth preserving is one that has a unique culture from "speaking to and working with people in your community."

In our fake culture, people get their fake wisdom and fake nationality from commercial media - from machines that are programmed to feed you something that makes you act in a pre-programmed way.

How can a machine-created fake-culture contribute in a healthy way to the world of plants and animals? Only by exploiting them, never by helping them or letting them be.

Death by exploitation and with lots of background lies is what awaits the citizens of fake cultures created by commercial media.

[boomerintown]

National identity will always be based on lies in a sense, but the lies often become true when enough people believe in them.

It is with a shared belief in the concept of national unity nations exist.

Anyway, Ive always been fascinated by France as a nation. Built on revolution, their citizens are always very active to fight for the values they believe in. Thats why I think these are the most inspiring anti covid-pass demonstrations:

"I wont go to restaurants, I dont give a damn. I wont sell my soul to go to cinema, or for other nonsence. Thats it. There is more at stake: freedom. There is nothing above freedom."

This is why I think we should be very careful before issuing out a vaccine-pass. As Benjamin Franklin said:
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

[B0ycey]

@boomerintown

I have read your posts and if you haven't realised, we are all on the Swedish plan today. There is no point arguing which is the best system when we are all doing the same bloody thing.

Nonetheless your vaccine passport argument seems confusing. If you are vaccinated there shouldn't be any worry about such a policy and if you are not then what does that say about national identity when you won't act in the best interests of the collective for that nation? We have a number of restrictions in accordance to liability and responsibility and if you don't have an issue with your doctor protecting you against Hepatitis B by being vaccinated perhaps you can do likewise to him by staying out of hospital and being hooked up to a ventilator.

[boomerintown]

@boomerintown

I have read your posts and if you haven't realised, we are all on the Swedish plan today. There is no point arguing which is the best system when we are all doing the same bloody thing.

Nonetheless your vaccine passport argument seems confusing. If you are vaccinated there shouldn't be any worry about such a policy and if you are not then what does that say about national identity when you won't act in the best interests of the collective for that nation? We have a number of restrictions in accordance to liability and responsibility and if you don't have an issue with your doctor protecting you against Hepatitis B by being vaccinated perhaps you can do likewise to him by staying out of hospital and being hooked up to a ventilator.

I agree that there is probably no argument about restrictions anymore, except in Australia it seems. But this have been my point essentially? That in the end our strategy didnt lead to the disaster, the results are fairly normal and other factors explain the difference between Sweden and its neighbours. I think this is Tegnells message too, eventually all landed in the same conclusion about how to deal with Covid, because its not going away anytime soon. With or without vaccination.

Anyway, I am vaccinated and I see vaccination as a act of solidarity towards risk groups and those who cannot vaccinate. But this isnt about what problems it causes me.

It is a principal issue for me that it sets a presidence where the state can demand of its citizens to do something in order keep access to previously universal rights.

Therefore I am in support with the message, expressed at least by the people they interview, in the french demonstration.

This isnt about antivax theories, I got no patience for that and I think they are making the wrong decisions both for themselves and for others by not vaccinating. So I might be romantic in this sense, but I still dont think society should limit their freedom because of it.

[Rancid]

National identity will always be based on lies in a sense, but the lies often become true when enough people believe in them.

It is with a shared belief in the concept of national unity nations exist.

Anyway, Ive always been fascinated by France as a nation. Built on revolution, their citizens are always very active to fight for the values they believe in. Thats why I think these are the most inspiring anti covid-pass demonstrations:

"I wont go to restaurants, I dont give a damn. I wont sell my soul to go to cinema, or for other nonsence. Thats it. There is more at stake: freedom. There is nothing above freedom."

This is why I think we should be very careful before issuing out a vaccine-pass. As Benjamin Franklin said:
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Guy on the bottom left with sun glasses is Joe Biden. A plant to undermine the French resolve. Clearly.

Sleep joe strikes again.

[B0ycey]

This isnt about antivax theories, I got no patience for that and I think they are making the wrong decisions both for themselves and for others by not vaccinating. So I might be romantic in this sense, but I still dont think society should limit their freedom because of it.

Freedom is restricted by just being part of society though boomerintown. I am guessing you don't have a problem with licenses in general like your driving licence or laws that protect people in other ways like not smoking in restaurants. What makes this issue so special?

The point is if a government enacts a vaccine passport that doesn't split society, it provides a choice and a consequence. But that can be applied and said to any law in existence actually. And really given we need to get people vaccinated to vanquish any new threat of yet another lockdown, at this moment in time if persuasion in terms of restriction increases vaccination rate, then that is nothing short of tough love and should be encouraged.

[boomerintown]

Freedom is restricted by just being part of society though boomerintown. I am guessing you don't have a problem with licenses in general like your driving licence or laws that protect people in other ways like not smoking in restaurants. What makes this issue so special?

The point is if a government enacts a vaccine passport that doesn't split society, it provides a choice and a consequence.

A driving license is something you need to take, in order to show that you can drive a car. I dont really think that is an anlogy to restricting people from, for instance, malls because they havent vaccinated themselves.

Regarding smoking, it is simply a rule against smoking. It doesnt really single out any group?

We will see I suppose, but if you start checking people now if they vaccinated or not, when will it stop and at what point have you gone too far in restricting what people without vaccination passports can do?

Australia and New Zealand went down this road with lockdown, but they clearly didnt think it through, and now the choice is between admitting they were wrong from the start or imposing more and more violent meassures to keep people in check.

[B0ycey]

Regarding smoking, it is simply a rule against smoking. It doesnt really single out any group?

Regarding vaccine passports, its simply a rule against being unvaccinated. It doesn't really single out any group!

Why not use your own argument against you. The thing about freedom under a social contract is choice has consequences. By all means don't take the vaccine. But why should others suffer from your choices? Like the driving licence, if you are deemed a risk to society you do not have the option that has been restricted until you do what is asked of given that is the point of the licence to begin with.

[SpecialOlympian]

The greatest freedom is keeping Bill Gates' micromachines out of your body because a YouTube man who spends three hours a day talking directly into his laptop camera told you it was Jewish.

This is exactly what Benjamin Franklin meant and what the Founding Fathers believed. This is our time to water the Tree of Liberty.

[Drlee]

I just witnessed an incident where a (looking) less than 5 year old Asian child was forced to put on a mask while crying non-stop and fighting back. Her own parents. Should I have filmed it? Should I go back and film it?

I deliberately made a snide comment "that rule is only for teenagers and adults. That's child abuse" as I was walking past.

Should I go back and tell her off? Should I go back and film the kid crying uncontrollably?

Edit: Damn, returned too late. They took the kid back to the car probably to "punish" her.

Second time I've witnessed a woman specifically abuse a child in a Shopping Centre.... At least she wasn't holding the kid upside down, with a concrete floor directly below the cranium should they be dropped, like in the last incident.

Mind your own business Karen.

Of course as a racist you would want to mention the absolutely irrelevant fact that they child appeared Asian.

If I thought there is even a scintilla of a chance that you are not trolling I might engage on this. But you are just trolling. It did not happen.

[boomerintown]

Regarding vaccine passports, its simply a rule against being unvaccinated. It doesn't really single out any group!

Why not use your own argument against you. The thing about freedom under a social contract is choice has consequences. By all means don't take the vaccine. But why should others suffer from your choices? Like the driving licence, if you are deemed a risk to society you do not have the option that has been restricted until you do what is asked of given that is the point of the licence to begin with.

Ok, so if we want to make these kind of analogies I think we need to define freedom a lot clearer than just using it as it is used in everyday language. I dont think we need to go down that road here though, but you should at least note that smoking is something you do and being vaccinated is something you are.

But anyway, if you dont even see that there are points on both sides of this argument, and understand what me (and others) mean when we say that we dont think the state should impose laws that requires you to be vaccinated to do this or that we seem to be pretty locked.

I got no problem in understanding your argument I think, and if you want I can steelman you. The question is, do you understand the people you disagree with, and can you steelman their position?

Laws will always exist, and nobody is making a case against laws a priori. But that doesnt mean we should just give up the freedom we do have, rather we should strive towards a more free society, not a less free. And again, for how long are you willing to support a vaccinepass? Is covid going away anytime soon, when we see new (and more dangerous) variations on the rise?

Dealing with covid is a marathon race, not a sprint. You need to maintain a society people are ok with, also in the long run, while you fight it.

[B0ycey]

@boomerintown, honestly I don't give a shit about vaccine passports. Do them, don't do them, I don't care given I am vaccinated. All I am doing is explaining that vaccine passports, if enacted, would be merely something that is part of the social contract. They don't discriminate given you can choose to be vaccinated which is very much like driving and smoking. And to be frank trying to justify one restriction and not others because of this bizarre notion that it separates society is ignoring we separate society all the time with age. But for some reason, and I blame social media propaganda and the right wing mentality for this, these vaccines seem so special for some reason. We have had vaccination requirements in other settings before now and nobody ever had a problem with that but during a pandemic vaccines seem a bad word now. Well all I can say is common sense certainly isn't that common.

[SpecialOlympian]

States have vaccination requirements to enroll your children in school. This is already happening. It's just this one specific vaccine and a significant portion of the world's loudest morons living in an alternate reality and now apparently we have to cater to their delusions.

Also lmao at colliric's dumb story about the 5 year old. Imagine his horror if those same adults made their child eat vegetables even if it made them tantrum.

[XogGyux]

I just witnessed an incident where a (looking) less than 5 year old Asian child was forced to put on a mask while crying non-stop and fighting back. Her own parents. Should I have filmed it? Should I go back and film it?

I think you should have filmed it. In the odd case you piss a crazy enough parent and they beat the crap out of you, it would be amazing if you could share the video with us.
While I do not condemn violence, over the last few months you have very compelling arguments for me to re-think my core values.

I deliberately made a snide comment "that rule is only for teenagers and adults. That's child abuse" as I was walking past.

While a stablishment/public place rule might only apply to certain people (e.g Adults or children above certain age). That does not mean the parent's need to expose their children and/or people around their children to the disease.

Should I go back and tell her off? Should I go back and film the kid crying uncontrollably?

So you think you are the hero here? A toddler crying... they cry for anything, but I am sure you are plenty aware of this but you only care about how you can make a pseudo-political point out of this. Tell me, how many girls have you rescued from abusive parents piercing their ears? How many boys have you saved from an abusive parent that won't buy them a chicken nugget? Did you report their parents for child endangerment and starvation? How many parents have you reported for disciplining their child kicking the seat of the passenger in the front?
Your mask-mania is simply stupid.

Edit: Damn, returned too late. They took the kid back to the car probably to "punish" her.

Yes, I am certain the paren'ts of that kid shipped the kid directly to Pyongyang for 20 years of labor.