The Wuhan virus—how are we doing? - Page 159 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Provision of the two UN HDI indicators other than GNP.
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#15197709
Hey Doug. When the friends you deliberately attempt to convince not to be vaccinated die, will you attend the funeral because you are sad or in triumph?
#15197718
Drlee wrote:Hey Doug. When the friends you deliberately attempt to convince not to be vaccinated die, will you attend the funeral because you are sad or in triumph?


Vaccination is not the only means to prevent death from infection, although I won't argue against the claim that it's probably the most effective way to prevent infection when you cannot (or resist to) avoid social contact.

Mind you, I am not a social person, so not vaccinating hadn't hurt me for the past year, and probably wouldn't hurt me in the foreseeable future. I only got jabbed because I don't want to be forced into bi-weekly testing and (eventually) get fired (instead of me taking control and quitting, that is).

For those choosing not to vaccinate (a path I definitely would continue if my company hadn't handed out a punitive policy), if they catch the disease and die, they probably also don't {wear mask / keep social distance / take care of their personal hygiene}. IMHO these latter procedures are crucial in keeping oneself from infection, vaccinated or not.

In fact, there are cases of infection despite full vaccination, which means vaccination is NOT as reliable as the government and / or you guys claim.

I will definitely "deliberately attempt to convince others not to be vaccinated" if the circumstances allow it, but that doesn't mean I would want them to expose themselves to the virus by not following the other necessary procedures.

Never trust your government when they try to force something on you.
Anyone will be forced into submission at some point, but that doesn't mean I agree with the agenda.
#15197723
@Patrickov Governments made seatbelt and helmet laws as a matter of public safety. You're reasoning and suspicion is logically flawed.

Patrickov wrote:I will definitely "deliberately attempt to convince others not to be vaccinated" if the circumstances allow it, but that doesn't mean I would want them to expose themselves to the virus by not following the other necessary procedures.
Your anti-vax ideas are stupid, and your having to agree with a public safety issue is a nice example of someone fighting for freeDUMB. :knife:

You are part of the fucking problem. Your suspicions and ignorance make you make foolish decisions. :moron:
#15197724
Godstud wrote:Governments made seatbelt and helmet laws as a matter of public safety. You're reasoning and suspicion is logically flawed.


Depends.

If you are on a driving seat and / or a motorcycle then the forcing is totally OK and should be accepted.

Forcing seatbelt on buses (Hong Kong wants to do this, at least on minibuses), though, is a step too far and not entirely enforceable.

Vaccination is, to me, the latter kind.

EDIT:
Again, those not vaccinating and catching the disease and die only have themselves to blame because there are other procedures that they have to follow.

I resent governments and you guys trying to advertise vaccination is the only way and denounce those advocating otherwise (i.e. vaccination is NOT an UNDENIABLE MUST, no matter how important it is) as dumb.

I have actually provided evidence to prove that your claim is actually a lie, and you seem to simply take it away and call me a dumb person without proof.

Godstud, you are not just dumb. You are being evil here.
#15197729
Patrickov wrote:Vaccination is, to me, the latter kind.
No, it's not. They made laws for airlines, too. Society makes safety regulations to protect its citizens. If you don't like that, then fuck off to Somalia and tell us how great it is to have your freedumb.

Patrickov wrote:Godstud, you are not just dumb. You are being evil here.
:lol: Evil because I want to protect people. Boy... you have some fucked up idea of what evil is. :lol: Evil is wickedness, not caring for your fellow man. Maybe you'd better rethink what side you're on if you think your own selfish freedumb is "Good", and caring about the welfare of others is "Evil".

If I'm dumb for caring about other human beings, then what are you? Amoral? Unethical? An A-hole?
#15197741
@Patrickov
Vaccination is not the only means to prevent death from infection, although I won't argue against the claim that it's probably the most effective way to prevent infection when you cannot (or resist to) avoid social contact.


This is untrue on two levels. First, as a practical matter, the kind of isolation you imagine really doesn't exist. There is no doubt that limiting exposure is a good idea but if you so much as have your groceries delivered you are at some risk. One group of infections in China was definitively traced to the ventilation system in an apartment building.

The second flaw in your argument is that you posit that vaccination prevents infection. It kinda' doesn't. What is does is very dramatically reduces the chances of being symptomatic or in having a serious outcome from your infection.


Mind you, I am not a social person, so not vaccinating hadn't hurt me for the past year, and probably wouldn't hurt me in the foreseeable future. I only got jabbed because I don't want to be forced into bi-weekly testing and (eventually) get fired (instead of me taking control and quitting, that is).


No. Just no. What you were for that year, was lucky. I grant that your lifestyle reduced risk but it did not eliminate it.

For those choosing not to vaccinate (a path I definitely would continue if my company hadn't handed out a punitive policy), if they catch the disease and die, they probably also don't {wear mask / keep social distance / take care of their personal hygiene}. IMHO these latter procedures are crucial in keeping oneself from infection, vaccinated or not
.

If your point is that even vaccinated people should wear masks, wash their hands frequently, and practice social distancing then I agree. I disagree with your idea that vaccination is anything like equal to these other things. It is not. What you have to get your head wrapped around is that unless you sequester yourself for life you will get this disease some day. Why you think that the risk of going without vaccination is somehow "worth it" speaks to your mental state and intelligence. And not favorably.

Then there is this. Clearly your reluctance to be vaccinated points to your disdain for science in favor of hubris. Here is why. If we do not stamp out this disease through vaccination and the achievement of something close to herd immunity, it will almost certainly spin off a variant that is even more deadly. We can see this with influenza, a disease not nearly as dangerous as Covid. I get that you are a special snowflake and that the world revolves around your ass, but just for show, how about doing something for mankind. The day that I was vaccinated I reduced dramatically the possibility that I might be the human Petri dish that would bring down civilization. (Or maybe another ten thousand a day like now.)

In fact, there are cases of infection despite full vaccination, which means vaccination is NOT as reliable as the government and / or you guys claim.


Nonsense. It is you who does not understand the science. Nobody, government or otherwise, has been saying that it is 100% effective. If that is what you understand then you are mistaken. What every scientist I know is saying is that vaccination reduces spread of the disease and dramatically reduces the possibility of adverse outcomes for those who become infected. That is true.

I will definitely "deliberately attempt to convince others not to be vaccinated" if the circumstances allow it, but that doesn't mean I would want them to expose themselves to the virus by not following the other necessary procedures.


Then the nicest thing I can say about you is that you are mentally ill. You are not a scientist, you want to play God. You are a dangerous fool.

Never trust your government when they try to force something on you.


You mean like speed limits, car licensing, taxes, workplace safety rules, food safety rules...There is a good one. Let's talk about that. Do you complain because the people who prepare your food are "forced by the government" to practice food safety? Give us about 100 words on why you think food safety rules should be eliminated. I can't wait.

Anyone will be forced into submission at some point, but that doesn't mean I agree with the agenda.


Garbage. In this case I think that you should consider three points about your statement:

1. You have yet to define this "agenda" you allege. What agenda? To what purpose? Who benefits from this agenda? (Pro tip. Do not mention drug companies as I will instantly demolish that idea as preposterous.)

2. The fact that one accepts constraints the society in which he/she lives imposes for the benefit of itself and its people does not qualify for the example of outrageous hyperbole you use when asserting they have been "forced into submission". Tell me another example of being "forced into submission" by your government.

3. Even if we accept mandatory vaccination as an intrusion into ones convenience (for that is all that it is) that is not your argument. You are advocating convincing people to not get vaccinated even in the absence of such a mandate. So we can dismiss that whole part of your argument as irrelevant.

I have handled you roughly here and you deserve it. People like you are more than misinformed. You (all) represent a existential threat not only to yourselves, but to others and society in general.

Spend some time not talking (typing) and just think for awhile. Read the literature that opposes your opinion. Then when you can present a cogent argument for your position get back to us. I don't think you will be able to do that.
#15197793
Godstud wrote:No, it's not. They made laws for airlines, too. Society makes safety regulations to protect its citizens.


Current safety technology and auto-drive measures in new cars are beginning to render such laws unnecessary as cars are becoming about as a safe "sans-seatbelt" as trains and buses are.

It's just an observation mate, I don't disagree with seatbelts in cars. I just think with the extremely high level of safety technology and auto-drive modes in even the cheapest new cars, Seatbelts are becoming less important. Buses, trains and trams will certainly never need them.



A seatbelt less EV!!!

Funny how technology can exist for a hundred years before finally it's time comes...

Finally you get around in a Baker Electric.. I hope Leno turns up to a charging station in this one day and films it!
#15197835
Defending anecdotal evidence by Drlee, Potemkin wrote:It's just @QatzelOk being @QatzelOk. Everything is grist to his meme mill. Having been hopelessly alienated from the rest of humanity from an early age, it's what he uses instead of a heart. He copes with heartbreaking tragedy by converting it into a witty and stylish meme.

I read about 200 "comments" on articles on bike helmets... that went like this:

"I was riding along my favorite trail on my bike, when I suddenly hit a piece of litter and went flying off my bike. When I got up off the ground, I was shaken but feeling alright. But my bike helmet was shattered. If I hadn't been wearing that helmet..."

And then, with his big heart, the "average viewer" is supposed to support helmet legislation, based on his non-stop emoting to fake comments like the one above.

I realize that our "masters" require emotional responses to lies... in order to get their agendas activated. But I am not going to participate in the fake emoting.

Real empathy happens when you confront a real problem. Anecdotal lies are toxic.

After the WTC explosions, 120 million Americans claimed to "know" someone who was killed in the collapsing towers.

Anecdotal stories were used to create a fake statistical situation (millions killed by Osama!) look more convincing for marketing purposes.

In 2001, it was WAR that was being mandated, and not gene therapy experiments.
#15197853
They should be forced to wear them. That is true.

Statistically bicycle riders are 9 points lower on IQ tests than non-riders and 11 points lower than those who rode into their teens and then stopped.

I knew a guy you told me that the bicycle club to which he used to belong taught its members to ride three abreast because then they could entice vehicle drivers to act aggressively toward them and get it on video. I know another bicycle rider who "admitted" that he had fallen off his bicycle three times riding over trolley tracks in a town that had no trolleys. What we all know is that the NDRTC has released statistics that show that people who ride bicycles suffer damage their their genitals. They also showed that bicycle riding into middle age is directly associated with late life homosexuality.
#15197897
SpecialOlympian wrote:I believe cyclists should be forced to wear helmets not for safety reasons, but to properly identify them as people with subnormal intellects.

Says the poster who when I said believed the Earth was an oblate spheroid responded, so you are a Flat Earther then.
#15197898
:lol: @Rich haven't you been on this forum long enough to know how sarcastic @SpecialOlympian can be? :roll:
#15198041
Drlee wrote:They should be forced to wear them. That is true.

Statistically bicycle riders are 9 points lower on IQ tests than non-riders and 11 points lower than those who rode into their teens and then stopped.

I knew a guy you told me that the bicycle club to which he used to belong taught its members to ride three abreast because then they could entice vehicle drivers to act aggressively toward them and get it on video. I know another bicycle rider who "admitted" that he had fallen off his bicycle three times riding over trolley tracks in a town that had no trolleys. What we all know is that the NDRTC has released statistics that show that people who ride bicycles suffer damage their their genitals. They also showed that bicycle riding into middle age is directly associated with late life homosexuality.

Your health credentials are on fine display above.

"Don't ride a bike, but get a vaccination against obesity and depression instead" is who you are.

he had fallen off his bicycle three times riding over trolley tracks in a town that had no trolleys.

In many places, the trams are gone, but the tracks remain. Major multinational corporations destroyed most of the tramways in North America. Maybe Big Pharma can be trusted though... they won't destroy anything on their way to mega profits, right, high-IQ non-cyclist? :lol:
#15198052
QatzelOk wrote:
"Don't ride a bike, but get a vaccination against obesity and depression instead" is who you are.


This is a classic misinterpretation. Correlation does not equal causation. You cannot say if the riding the bike = drop in your IQ point. Perhaps it is the other way around, people with low IQ naturally drifts towards riding a bike. Or perhaps it is an external variable, perhaps people of certain socioeconomic situations, have lower IQ because of poorer nutrition, poorer brain stimulation when child, physical/emotional abuse, exposure to substances, chemicals, alcohol, drugs that both cause the LOW IQ/bike riding.
:lol:
So there is no evidence that stopping driving the bike will restore the IQ :lol: .
However, on a subset analysis, those that ride loud harley bikes, stopping to drive that bike, at least would increase the perception of your IQ by other people, since drawing less attention to stupidity, generally speaking leads to people being less aware of it. :lol:
#15198087
Hey, I'm on time this week!

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@annatar1914, true enough, facts are stubborn things, we shall see what the future brings. Though the Left seems to have no problem ignoring those facts that are inconvenient, like the effectiveness of having been sick with the Wuhan virus as a natural "vaccine."
Godstud wrote::lol: Evil because I want to protect people. Boy... you have some fucked up idea of what evil is. :lol: Evil is wickedness, not caring for your fellow man. Maybe you'd better rethink what side you're on if you think your own selfish freedumb is "Good", and caring about the welfare of others is "Evil".

If I'm dumb for caring about other human beings, then what are you? Amoral? Unethical? An A-hole?

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So, in the news, the 5th Circuit maintained its stay on the administration*'s "emergency" rule, stating that the rule “grossly exceeds OSHA’s statutory authority.” The Court goes on to say “rather than a delicately handled scalpel, the Mandate is a one-size-fits-all sledgehammer that makes hardly any attempt to account for differences in workplaces (and workers) that have more than a little bearing on workers’ varying degrees of susceptibility to the supposedly ‘grave danger’ the Mandate purports to address.”

AntiFA is now aiming its usual violence at those protesting government vaccine mandates.

And the Washington Post asks, How does a pandemic start winding down? You are looking at it.

Also, the recent poll on vaccines for children:

The Food and Drug Administration has recently approved COVID-19 vaccines for children as young as five years old. How concerned are you about the safety of COVID-19 vaccination for children?

  • Very concerned 39%
  • Somewhat concerned 21%
  • Not very concerned 18%
  • Not at all concerned 17%
  • Not sure 4%

Republicans
  • Very concerned 55%
  • Somewhat concerned 23%
  • Not very concerned 11%
  • Not at all concerned 8%
  • Not sure 3%

Independents
  • Very concerned 39%
  • Somewhat concerned 22%
  • Not very concerned 17%
  • Not at all concerned 14%
  • Not sure 8%

Democrats
  • Very concerned 27%
  • Somewhat concerned 19%
  • Not very concerned 24%
  • Not at all concerned 28%
  • Not sure 2%

Should public schools make COVID-19 vaccination mandatory for students?

  • Yes 35%
  • No 55%
  • Not sure 10%

Republicans
  • Yes 17%
  • No 77%
  • Not sure 6%

Independents
  • Yes 24%
  • No 61%
  • Not sure 15%

Democrats
  • Yes 61%
  • No 31%
  • Not sure 9%
#15198089
Oh wow. A childish retort from @Doug64 and invoking Godwin's law. Then an irrelevant comment. How typical. :O

Spout some more stats about how many people are dying, you morbid ghoul. :knife:
#15198137
Doug64 wrote:the Left seems to have no problem ignoring those facts that are inconvenient, like the effectiveness of having been sick with the Wuhan virus as a natural "vaccine."


If you believe that natural infection with Covid grants better immunity than vaccination, this seems incorrect right now.

There is one study awaiting peer review that suggests that natural immunity is better for the Delta variant, but there are at least two major problems with it:

1. It does not account for the possibility of those with natural immunity being reinfected many times between the two diagnoses, and…
2. Only those who survived the initial infection were available for the study.

Other studies and data analyses have shown the opposite:
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspec ... -data-show

    Among COVID-19–like illness hospitalizations among adults aged ≥18 years whose previous infection or vaccination occurred 90–179 days earlier, the adjusted odds of laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 among unvaccinated adults with previous SARS-CoV-2 infection were 5.49-fold higher than the odds among fully vaccinated recipients of an mRNA COVID-19 vaccine who had no previous documented infection (95% confidence interval = 2.75–10.99).
#15198201
QatzelOk wrote:Your health credentials are on fine display above.

"Don't ride a bike, but get a vaccination against obesity and depression instead" is who you are.


In many places, the trams are gone, but the tracks remain. Major multinational corporations destroyed most of the tramways in North America. Maybe Big Pharma can be trusted though... they won't destroy anything on their way to mega profits, right, high-IQ non-cyclist? :lol:


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