The Wuhan virus—how are we doing? - Page 5 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Provision of the two UN HDI indicators other than GNP.
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#15102424
@Rich I refer to all people from the USA as "Yanks" or "Yankees". To call them American is incorrect, as that would include people from South America and Latin America, Canada, etc. as well. The Americas are a very big region.

These people are also Americans and it has nothing to do with a political geography from 150 years ago. :knife:
#15102485
Pants-of-dog wrote:@Doug64

You are comparing confirmed deaths of the Trump virus to estimated flu deaths.

The latter will be much higher. If you look at confirmed flu deaths, they are less than half the estimated deaths. If you were to compare confirmed deaths for both flu and the Trump virus, you would have the effect of doubling the percentage of Trump virus deaths compared to flu deaths.

To be concise, your spreadsheet is misleading.


The idea that Covid 19 is no worse than the flu is not supported by medical evidence. Even in young, healthy patients suffering no apparent symptoms, some alarming trends are showing up.

https://www.medicaldevice-network.com/n ... -ct-scans/

The results were collected from 101 cases of Covid-19 pneumonia across four institutions in China’s Hunan province.

The scans determined that 86% of Covid-19 patients have ground-glass opacities (GGO), while 64% have mixed GGO and consolidation and 71% have vascular enlargement in the lesion.

Ground glass opacities indicate partial filling of air spaces in the lungs by exudate or transudate, as well as interstitial thickening or partial collapse of the lung alveoli.
The lesions present on the CT images were more likely to have peripheral distribution (87%) and bilateral involvement (82%). They were also more likely to be lower lung predominant (54%) and multifocal (54%).

Just over 70% of the patients were aged between 21 and 50, and 78% had fever as the onset symptom. Only five patients showed disease associated with a family outbreak.




This suggests that there is a large cohort of Covid 19 survivors that will be facing long-term health challenges, and likely a significantly reduced lifespan.
Last edited by quetzalcoatl on 24 Jun 2020 06:26, edited 1 time in total.
#15102492
Godstud wrote:@Rich I refer to all people from the USA as "Yanks" or "Yankees". To call them American is incorrect, as that would include people from South America and Latin America, Canada, etc. as well. The Americas are a very big region.

It is not correct to refer to all citizens of the USA as "Yanks" or "Yankees" either, since that is a Northeastern regional name that does not apply to the whole country. You are referring to names of continents, not countries. The one country that contains "America" in its name is the United States of America. That is why it is more accurate to call all our citizens "Americans."
#15102500
:lol: Calling people who are nly from USA, Americans is pretty arrogant, but typical.

Yanks are what people from USA have been called for a long time. Ask any Brit what they call people from USA. It's either that or "ceptics". :D

Your Civil War has been over for a 150 years and so pretending that there is regional significance is only significant to racist cunts who still consider themselves traitors(Sorry... Confederates).
#15102611
Returning to the topic briefly, may I suggest one look at the opinions of other country's to assess how well the US is doing. With a few exceptions, Canada continues to block the US. A 14 day quarantine will be -or continue to be imposed. Europe doesn't think much to admitting US citizens either.

You be the judge.
#15102621
Stormsmith wrote:Returning to the topic briefly, may I suggest one look at the opinions of other country's to assess how well the US is doing. With a few exceptions, Canada continues to block the US. A 14 day quarantine will be -or continue to be imposed. Europe doesn't think much to admitting US citizens either.

You be the judge.


Canada doesn't count, it's not a real country, and Europe is stupid and gay.
#15102656
Godstud wrote: Calling people who are nly from USA, Americans is pretty arrogant, but typical.

Yanks are what people from USA have been called for a long time. Ask any Brit what they call people from USA. It's either that or "ceptics". :D

Your Civil War has been over for a 150 years and so pretending that there is regional significance is only significant to racist cunts who still consider themselves traitors(Sorry... Confederates).


I'm from Britain and my family are cockney.

I haven't heard an American be called septic in over thirty years. I doubt anyone here under 40 would have a clue what you are talking about.

Occasionally call Americans yanks, but mostly just Americans.
#15102774
Pants-of-dog wrote:I see.

You want me to find the right numbers for you.

No, thank you.

No surprise there. :roll: If you can’t provide better numbers, I’ll stick to the ones I have.

Godstud wrote:@Rich I refer to all people from the USA as "Yanks" or "Yankees". To call them American is incorrect, as that would include people from South America and Latin America, Canada, etc. as well. The Americas are a very big region.

These people are also Americans and it has nothing to do with a political geography from 150 years ago. :knife:

I also prefer to avoid using “American” for the same reason, though the “Norteamericano” that was standard in Guatemala a few decades ago wasn’t much better. But we just don’t have a pithy label for “United States citizen” in English. It’s too bad that we can’t just adopt Esperanto’s Usonano (which seems to have replaced the standard “Amerikano” when I first looked at Esperanto decades ago).

Mind, I also prefer “Amerind” to “Native American” for the same reason—my family can trace ancestors here in what became the US back almost 400 years, I’m definitely a native American. ;)

Godstud wrote:Yanks are what people from USA have been called for a long time. Ask any Brit what they call people from USA. It's either that or "ceptics". :D

Your Civil War has been over for a 150 years and so pretending that there is regional significance is only significant to racist cunts who still consider themselves traitors(Sorry... Confederates).

And I’m sure everyone from Wales and Scotland have no trouble being called British, much less English. :D
quetzalcoatl wrote:The idea that Covid 19 is no worse than the flu is not supported by medical evidence.

I’ve never claimed it was. Though the Wuhan virus is clearly not as lethal as eventually projected (once we got something resembling true information from the CCP), it is also clearly more lethal than the flu. But that isn’t the real question, rather the question is whether the complete nationwide shutdown of our economy was really necessary, and what level of restrictions are needed going forward—and for that, a comparison to the number of deaths from the flu we are not only willing to tolerate but not even really notice is useful.

Stormsmith wrote:With a few exceptions, Canada continues to block the US. A 14 day quarantine will be -or continue to be imposed.

That’s just because Canada doesn’t feel like dealing with the bureaucratic hassle of differentiating based on state. If they did I’m sure they’d have no problem admitting people from Montana with a “deaths per million” about a tenth of Canada’s. Can’t say I blame them, really, it would be as much a hassle as, say, requiring online vendors to pay the local sales tax of every locale they ship to. :p
#15102777
@Doug64

The fact that I do not want to do your work for you is irrelevant to the point:

You are now knowingly using and spreading misleading information. By comparing confirmed deaths on one hand to estimated deaths on the other hand, you are making the Trump virus seem less lethal than it actually is.
#15103092
Pants-of-dog wrote:I see.

You want me to find the right numbers for you.

No, thank you.


I think he is wrong to ask for a link saying that, because that number may not be as attainable or accurate as we think. Flu is such a common and long-running disease that it is possible for people to only seek medical assistance when things go awry, and when it becomes pneumonia they might just recognised as having a "pneumonic infection" rather than "flu" (the former Grand Duke of Luxembourg's death was registered as such). So the "confirmed number of death from flu" may not be as attainable and accurate as some estimates.

Wuhan pneumonia, on the other hand, is being focused and tracked down so aggressively that a confirmed case number is accurate enough.

If he has to be questioned, then it should be the methodology of getting the flu number itself, because I cannot see how that number is obtained.
#15103099
I am not so sure that cases of Trump virus are actually being tracked down aggressively.

For one thing, neither the USA nor the individual states have health databases of all the people in the area, because they have no public healthcare like developed countries do. Plus medical costs are a barrier for seeking treatment and testing. And their populist leader is actually trying to have less testing since it keeps bringing the abysmal numbers even higher.

If anything, the CDC should also be boosting the number of deaths due to Trump virus based on similar mathematical estimates.
#15103100
Pants-of-dog wrote:I am not so sure that cases of Trump virus are actually being tracked down aggressively.

For one thing, neither the USA nor the individual states have health databases of all the people in the area, because they have no public healthcare like developed countries do. Plus medical costs are a barrier for seeking treatment and testing. And their populist leader is actually trying to have less testing since it keeps bringing the abysmal numbers even higher.

If anything, the CDC should also be boosting the number of deaths due to Trump virus based on similar mathematical estimates.


In that case it's the data providers that have to be questioned. Member Doug64 probably tried his best.
#15103155
wat0n wrote:Well, the US has actually tested more people per million than countries like Canada so far. But then it's arguably too late too contain, hence the new outbreak.


The US started testing too late. That's why it has to test more now. However, the US is cheating because some US states count both PCR tests for diagnosis and serological tests, which can't be used for testing. Only the former should be counted.

Godstud wrote:Testing per case is more important than "per million".
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/numb ... irmed-case


That's true. It still doesn't give a 100% correct picture, because the number of undetected cases varies according to country. To get a more accurate picture we could use the number of deaths and estimate the true number of infected from there. In case some countries miss/hide corona deaths, it's also possible to use excess deaths data to estimate the true number of deaths, but only with a delay since it takes a few weeks for these data to be available.
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