The Wuhan virus—how are we doing? - Page 51 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Provision of the two UN HDI indicators other than GNP.
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#15127230
Drlee wrote:It was Trump who made this political.

This was always going to be a highly politicised crisis. It was never going to be a largely unifying event like WWI and WWII were for Britain. Nietzsche got it wrong, its not the death of God that is so psychologically traumatic for us, but the death of Satan.

If he had just done three things, pushing mask wearing, facilitating massive testing, and insisting on contact tracing, we would have a fraction of the dead

I really don't believe you're stupid enough to believe that.

and he would be be able to slow walk to reelection.

Boris Johnson is an example of someone that after a slow start, threw his lot in with the Lockdown Liberals. Yes it initially polled well for him. But now he's become a political joke. The only thing that seems to unify us now in Britain across the political spectrum is our total contempt for Boris Johnson.

Oh. And this thread is not about abortion though obviously you feel on stronger footing with that topic.

I don't think Biden will pack the court, but I would be very happy to be proved to wrong. To see decades of hard political slog by social conservatives flushed down the toilet in a matter of a few months would be highly amusing.
#15127280
Drlee wrote:@Finfinder Name one? I know that the economic collapse has cost me a shit ton of money and though I am the odd conservative in largely progressive circles it may surprise you to know that I have not met a single person who believes what you said they believe. It seems your trolling is going to be pretty lonely.


Focus Drlee this is not about you.

Drlee wrote:@Finfinder Name one? I know that the economic collapse has cost me a shit ton of money and though I am the odd conservative in largely progressive circles it may surprise you to know that I have not met a single person who believes what you said they believe. It seems your trolling is going to be pretty lonely.

Oh. And this thread is not about abortion though obviously you feel on stronger footing with that topic.


I never said it was about about abortion. Are you OK Drlee you seem Biden like confused, not able to read a thread in it's entirety understanding and context. There are many back and fourths between posters. Are you that desperate to save face on this thread to take single words out of context from the many posts I made? Please review all the posts in context before you commit to whatever it is you are attempting here.

That being said ....Drlee doesn't believe the Dems were against a Chinese travel Ban he demanded me to name 1. OK How about Joe Biden Drlee?



Drlee claims the Dems were not against social distancing. Ok Drlee what about Nancy Pelosi. I really thought you were supposed to be on top of American politics or maybe you are just being dishonest.

Here is Nancy proclaiming everyone should go to Chinatown.



Now finally back to when Drlee chimed in with his bad attitude and personal attacks, we were discussing Obamacare / state sponsored health insurance and Canada's healthcare.

Drlee wrote: I am the odd conservative in largely progressive circles it may surprise you to know that I have not met a single person who believes what you said they believe. It seems your trolling is going to be pretty lonely.


Do you remember a gentleman by the name of Johnathan Gruber? He is a uber liberal like yourself and the architect of Obamacare. He seems to think liberals are stupid voters, lemmings. Obamacare was just a Trojan horse. You asked for evidence here it is.



Drlee wrote: I am the odd conservative in largely progressive circles it may surprise you to know that I have not met a single person who believes what you said they believe. It seems your trolling is going to be pretty lonely.


Username Drlee
Status Off-line
Ideology Liberal
#15127282
Rich wrote:I don't think Biden will pack the court, but I would be very happy to be proved to wrong. To see decades of hard political slog by social conservatives flushed down the toilet in a matter of a few months would be highly amusing.

I imagine you would find the Conservative meltdown equally amusing, for awhile. I doubt your amusement would outlast the probable new state nullifications and the all but certain serious secession movements, though.

I wonder if social media will censor this the way they have any other opposition to the lockdowns, including that of scientists and politicians:

Global catastrophe': WHO envoy urges end to coronavirus pandemic lockdowns
A leading World Health Organization official has urged governments to stop using lockdowns as their primary method of fighting the novel coronavirus pandemic, citing the devastating economic and public-health consequences.

Dr. David Nabarro, the organization’s special envoy for COVID-19, said in a Friday interview on British television that “we in the World Health Organization do not advocate lockdowns as the primary means of control of this virus.”

He said the lockdowns may result in a doubling of world poverty and “at least a doubling of child malnutrition because children are not getting meals at school, and their parents in poor families are not able to afford it.”

“This is a terrible, ghastly global catastrophe, actually, and so we really do appeal to all world leaders: Stop using lockdown as your primary control method,” Dr. Nabarro told [U.K.] Spectator TV’s Andrew Neil. “Develop better systems for doing it. Work together and learn from each other, but remember, lockdowns just have one consequence that you must never ever belittle, and that is making poor people an awful lot poorer.”

His message comes with thousands of other international experts calling for an end to the pandemic lockdowns in the Great Barrington Declaration, which had gathered as of Monday morning signatures from nearly 7,000 scientists and 15,000 medical practitioners.

“As infectious disease epidemiologists and public health scientists, we have grave concerns about the damaging physical and mental health impacts of the prevailing COVID-19 policies, and recommend an approach we call Focused Protection,” says the Great Barrington petition. “Current lockdown policies are producing devastating effects on short and long-term public health.”

The document, developed in Great Barrington, Massachusetts, was spearheaded by Harvard professor of medicine Dr. Martin Kulldorf; Oxford epidemiologist Dr. Sunetra Gupta, and Stanford Medical School professor Dr. Jay Bhattacharya.

Other scientists have criticized the Great Barrington proposal, which calls for safeguarding the elderly and those at risk of death while allowing others to live normally and “build up immunity through natural infection.”

“This declaration prioritises just one aspect of a sensible strategy — protecting the vulnerable — and suggests we can safely build up ‘herd immunity’ in the rest of the population. This is wishful thinking,” said Dr. Rupert Beale of the Francis Crick Institute. “It is not possible to fully identify vulnerable individuals, and it is not possible to fully isolate them.”

Dr. Nabarro said that the lockdowns may have been justified at the beginning of the coronavirus crisis, but no longer.

“The only time we believe a lockdown is justified is to buy you time to reorganize, regroup, rebalance your resources, protect your health workers who are exhausted,” Dr. Nabarro said. “But by and large, we’d rather not do it.”

He pointed to the damage done to tourism- and agriculture-based economies.

“Just look at what’s happened to the tourism industry, for example, in the Caribbean or in the Pacific because people aren’t taking their holidays,” Dr. Nabarro said. “Look what’s happened to small holder farmers all over the world because their markets have got dented.”

Shutdown orders in the United States vary from state to state. California, Hawaii and Massachusetts have the most restrictions, while South Dakota, Idaho and Utah have the fewest, according to an Oct. 6 survey by WalletHub.

More than 1 million people worldwide have died of COVID-19, which has infected nearly 38 million people worldwide, according to Worldometer.
#15127306
Drlee wrote:It was Trump who made this political.

A virus became a class-war because of Trump?

Everything seems to become a money-making poltical issue in our day, and this has been happening for far longer than the latest non-expert sitting in the White House.

The health care system of the USA is a money-making scam - pure politics, in other words.

That microsoft and amazon and other basic social infra is still private and thus not representative of any common good - is also a money-making scam that is PURE POLITICS.

You can't eat politics, and that is ALL the rich can offer you presently because, unlike normal working people, the extremely rich who are in charge produce nothing except fear.
#15127827
So, as it has been all over the news, it seems there is a newly increasing trend in daily new US cases:

Image

However, this seems to be driven by testing - positivity seems to have a very slight increasing trend:

Image

Image

Let's see what happens with it during the next few weeks. It seems most European countries seem to be undergoing a similar process during their second wave. Ideally, daily positivity would keep decreasing or at least remain flat, with daily testing continuing its increasing trend.
#15127846
Correct, there are around 800 daily fatalities. Interestingly those are essentially flat, slightly decreasing even - just like in Europe, these new cases have not translated into more daily deaths. Yet another sign that much of this is being driven by more testing.
#15127865
I am not particularly encouraged by the numbers. We have had a very hot late summer in the west. It was 98 degrees here today. Might hit 100 tomorrow. Wait until it gets cold.

Then we have the Trump administration trying to sell herd immunity. Won't be long before that kills another couple of hundred thousand people.

1000 people a day and the republicans do not give one rat's ass about it. It is disgusting and unconscionable. My ballot is here today. Joining the blue wave tomorrow. Why? Because of covid.
#15127907
I was just looking at the figures for Italy. In many ways Italy has become a poster child for the Lockdown Liberals. Although castigated for not locking down early enough, of course by the same Liberal hypocrites that campaigned to keep open borders with China and Iran, its been widely praised for the severity and callousness of its lock down. The Liberals could hardly hide their glee as so many Kulacks (small business people) were put out of business. Italy was the leading European example of how to handle the so called second wave.

Well the case are exploding and the death rate is multiplying, yet another catastrophic failure for the lock down liberals strategy. Of course mere facts won't put off the true believers any more than the six million deaths of the Holdormor, put off the Communists. If ever a lock down fails, it is of course never evidence of the bankruptcy of their strategy, it just means it was no true lockdown.
#15127911
What about Thailand, where they locked down and everything re-opened(in July) once they got the number of cases down? They are now set to be one of the countries best prepared to recover economically from the pandemic. No second wave, incidentally.

You right-wingnuts really are clueless. You look for only the worst cases to compare USA to. :knife:

Comparing this to the Holodomor is really fucking tasteless and shows what a low life you are, @Rich.
#15127954
@Godstud

I wish BC could say the same. We were doing ever so well, but the cases started to creep upwards. A few sick outsiders, a few weddings etc. And the environment has lost the cleanliness...
#15127967
A couple of months ago I was extremely angry about the utter failure of the Trump administration to handle this problem. It was not an easy one and none of the solutions that we know work were happy ones. I was furious with some of my old compatriots at CDC because I wanted them to shout from the rooftops rather than putting out one milk-toast instruction after another.

Then the cases just kept happening. I saw my homeless folks not only getting the disease but being even further isolated by it. If I get afraid I have directions in which I can move. They don't. They are just stuck with their fear. When I went to the feeding project/clinic yesterday I was able wear full PPE and get cleaned up when I got home. All they could do is wear a mask (we gave them masks) and hide. And all of this in a place where it is yet to get below highs of 95+. As I write this it is before noon, 91 degrees already and on its way to 95. Folks are out in this, afraid, in danger and with not a single place to go. Most of the feeding places are shut down and virtually all of the shelters severely limited in capacity.

So now it is just sad. And it is a sad commentary on my Republican Party. We were the ones who endlessly carped about less government and more private. Then we went on to cut almost all aid to private charities/government cooperation. We sued to take away health care from millions including and especially those who are indigent. And we even passed a tax bill with an insidious feature. By increasing the standard deduction to throw middle class voters a bone we removed a great incentive to give to private charities but taking away the deduction for most.

There is no excuse for this at all.
#15128025
Drlee wrote:Then we have the Trump administration trying to sell herd immunity. Won't be long before that kills another couple of hundred thousand people.

While I don't disagree that the racket of a health care system in the USA is killing thousands of poeple, I don't think "voting for the other old fart" will change this at all.

The Democrats are just as complicit in transfering resources to the already-rich as the Republicans.

Biden has already "promised" not to introduce the social medicine that the rest of the developed world has. So if you think Joe Biden represents "revolutionary medicine," it's probably time to stop drinking the kool-aid out of your Che mug.
#15128040
The WHO and other major bodies are finally starting to say that targeted measures are better than large-scale lockdowns. Plenty of non-doctors were saying this almost a year ago.

The death rate has been flat, maybe a small decrease, since beginning of June. Roughly 1/13th of heart disease!

Trump haters are basically the only people left pushing for (or even enacting) draconian lockdowns. No one else is behind it anymore and the data hasn't supported it for several months at least.
#15128043


The death rates no longer qualify COVID as a pandemic or epidemic according to the official definitions of those things, being less than cancer, cardiovascular (heart disease) etc. There's a group of doctors in the Netherlands filing a lawsuit over this apparently.
#15128058
Godstud wrote:What about Thailand, where they locked down and everything re-opened(in July) once they got the number of cases down? They are now set to be one of the countries best prepared to recover economically from the pandemic. No second wave, incidentally.

You right-wingnuts really are clueless. You look for only the worst cases to compare USA to. :knife:

Comparing this to the Holodomor is really fucking tasteless and shows what a low life you are, @Rich.

Notice how the Liberals are always demanding that we compare Sweden to its Scandinavian neighbours, but they never demand that Thailand be compared to its South East Asian neighbours, Cambodia and Laos, which have had 0 deaths. Thailand also has twice the death of Vietnam, despite Vietnam sharing a border with China and over twice the death of Tanzania.

Liberals really do seem to live in a pathetic fantasy world where they imagine that every country could have just implemented a magical set of policies and kept the death rate down to Tanzania's. They really do seem to live in a pathetic fantasy world where Tanzania is a model, a paradise of society and good governance and that it is the government and peoples response that is the cause of low or zero official death rates in countries like Tanzania and Eritrea.

The Xi virus is clearly effected by climate, which is why the fact that Panama now has a higher death rate than Sweden is a particularly humiliating blow for the lock down Liberals.
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