[AFAIK]

@Godstud If that's true it should be easy to convince people to take them without having to resort to coercion. Resorting to coercion signals that the vaxes aren't safe enough to win people over on their own merits. Also please be careful to use my name when quoting me. I can't think of anything more embarrassing than being mistaken for Igor.

[Godstud]

Coercion is sometimes the only way to do it, @AFAIK. Look at what they had to do to get people to wear seatbelts, and that was only for PERSONAL safety. This is asking people to worry about everyone's safety.

I know most Westerners have a tough time, these days, of thinking about anything but their own personal freedom, to the point of idiotic selfishness. Thankfully, the vast majority of people aren't this dumb.

@Igor Antunov You are full of shit.

You "liking" something, is irrelevant to them being effective and safe. You simply aren't smart enough to understand that the vaccines are a million times safer than getting a highly infectious disease.

The death rate is over 1 in 9 million for a vaccine(the percentage is insanely small), and without it, the death rate for Covid-19 can be as high as 10%(comorbidities being a factor). If you don't get vaccinated, it just means you're one of those selfish pricks who only cares about themselves. I don't find this atall surprising, if you are, though.

Pretending it's HARD to get vaccinated is rubbish, too. They are obviously giving vaccines to those who need it the most, first. You can see, however, and pretending it's "as hard to get as covid", is just you saying dumb shit, AGAIN.
https://www.health.gov.au/initiatives-a ... 9-vaccines

[Igor Antunov]

If you don't get vaccinated, it just means you're one of those selfish pricks who only cares about themselves.

Wait, the fault in your reasoning is profound. This isn't the measles. The vaccinated still catch the virus and act as evolutionary incubators for the virus, they're just protected from its (initial variant) most serious effects but can spread it and its future variants to others. (according to your own stats). Therefore vaccines won't be the end of the virus-they might even help propagate it. Why would somebody that is vaccinated fear somebody that is unvaccinated in this instance?

I demonstrated how a benign strain can morph into something far more dangerous in vaccinated organisms. In fact, it is the people in the negligible risk group (under 60's) rushing to a half-assed batch of vaccines that are putting us all in greater danger long term. It is in fact the needlessly vaccinated that are rushing to safe harbor like cowardly little bitches.

There is a British fleet of 9 ships and thousands of fully vaccinated sailors currently infected with the delta variant on a world tour of around 40 countries. This is what happens when you give the selfish the means to act smug. They go and chuck a potential MDV on all of us.

I can't think of anything more embarrassing than being mistaken for Igor.

[Godstud]

Being vaccinated reduces the chances of transmission, so more of your stupid fuckwit bullshit, @Igor Antunov.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... eople.html

[Igor Antunov]

It also increases the chances of a blood clot noob, as far as the usual suspects are concerned. So I've decided to go with sinovac. 1.5 billion injections with no burst blood vessels can't be wrong. It's also plenty effective;

Brazilian city Serrana completes 16 days without deaths by Covid-19 after entire adult population got Sinovac shot
https://g1.globo.com/sp/ribeirao-preto- ... aude.ghtml

Also prevented 98% peruvian medical staff that got injected from getting infected.

It's the only vaccine without a safety signal in young people (e.g clotting, capillary leak syndrome and myocarditis). Might want to keep that in mind especially considering efficacy is similar to AZ and JJ without the VIPIT and capillary leak syndrome. No idea how people have concluded it's the worst vaccine, considering this. Western propaganda is a hell of a drug I guess.

I don't trust American-for-profit antics. Enjoy your brain aneurysm. So I'll just have to wait for my preferred vaccine.

[Pants-of-dog]

Wait, the fault in your reasoning is profound. This isn't the measles. The vaccinated still catch the virus and act as evolutionary incubators for the virus, they're just protected from its (initial variant) most serious effects but can spread it and its future variants to others. (according to your own stats). Therefore vaccines won't be the end of the virus-they might even help propagate it. Why would somebody that is vaccinated fear somebody that is unvaccinated in this instance?

Unvaccinated people are even more likely to catch the virus, and more likely to act as evolutionary incubators.

Unvaccinated people can spread more virus more easily, including the future variants.

Not using vaccines will propagate the virus even more.

And unvaccinated people threaten the lives of other people who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons.

I demonstrated how a benign strain can morph into something far more dangerous in vaccinated organisms.

A benign strain can morph into something far more dangerous in unvaccinated organisms too. In fact, this is more likely due to the higher amount of viral bodies in the unvaccinated.

In fact, it is the people in the negligible risk group (under 60's) rushing to a half-assed batch of vaccines that are putting us all in greater danger long term. It is in fact the needlessly vaccinated that are rushing to safe harbor like cowardly little bitches.

No. You are making the incorrect assumption that unvaccinated people are less of a danger.

There is a British fleet of 9 ships and thousands of fully vaccinated sailors currently infected with the delta variant on a world tour of around 40 countries. This is what happens when you give the selfish the means to act smug. They go and chuck a potential MDV on all of us.

Please provide evidence for this claim.

It also increases the chances of a blood clot noob, as far as the usual suspects are concerned.

The chances of getting a blood clot form Covid is much higher.

So I've decided to go with sinovac. 1.5 billion injections with no burst blood vessels can't be wrong. It's also plenty effective;
Brazilian city Serrana completes 16 days without deaths by Covid-19 after entire adult population got Sinovac shot
https://g1.globo.com/sp/ribeirao-preto- ... aude.ghtml

Also prevented 98% peruvian medical staff that got injected from getting infected.

It's the only vaccine without a safety signal in young people (e.g clotting, capillary leak syndrome and myocarditis). Might want to keep that in mind especially considering efficacy is similar to AZ and JJ without the VIPIT and capillary leak syndrome. No idea how people have concluded it's the worst vaccine, considering this. Western propaganda is a hell of a drug I guess.

I don't trust American-for-profit antics. Enjoy your brain aneurysm. So I'll just have to wait for my preferred vaccine.

I see.

You have an irrational double standard where vaccine A is evil but vaccine B is perfect.

[Rancid]

You have an irrational double standard where vaccine A is evil but vaccine B is perfect.

It's pretty clear Igor has compromised his own credibility on pofo long ago.

That said, I appreciate him more than most of the other authoritarian apologists. He seems to own/wear this schtick a little better than most. IT sounds like I"m excusing him though.

I'm not.. seriously I'm not.... really really I'm not!

EDIT:
I guess what i like about him, is that he's like a parody and doesn't know it.

[Igor Antunov]

I see.

You have an irrational double standard where vaccine A is evil but vaccine B is perfect.

Except for the part where we know that Sinovac's vaccine doesn't cause the issues I'm trying to avoid. Plus I know many family and friends in the balkans and Dubai that have received it and it has been very effective with zero side effects. I know many family and friends here that have received pfizer and god forbid astrafail and they've been out of it for 2-3 days and some are still having a bad time. Anectodal but hey, the supporting billion+ injections cannot lie.

I guess what i like about him, is that he's like a parody and doesn't know it.

[Rancid]

Come mierda!

[Pants-of-dog]

Except for the part where we know that Sinovac's vaccine doesn't cause the issues I'm trying to avoid.

I do not think so.

You mentioned long term effects, but the Chinese vaccines are even newer and so it is impossible to know the long term effects for the Chinese vaccines too.

Plus I know many family and friends in the balkans and Dubai that have received it and it has been very effective with zero side effects. I know many family and friends here that have received pfizer and god forbid astrafail and they've been out of it for 2-3 days and some are still having a bad time. Anectodal but hey, the supporting billion+ injections cannot lie.

This is very bad evidence.

It is highly unlikely that all the people who got the Chinese vaccines felt fine for the week or so after, Because people also get sick or feel unwell for unrelated reasons.

This means it is more likely that you are ignoring data.

[colliric]

Ironic how we were called Racist for saying the virus came from China, while the same people are now falling back on the "Chinese(and Indian) products are dodgy" racist stereotypes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CoronaVac

Seems pretty effective and doesn't need special storage needs. And importantly it's phase 3 trials are completed.

Personally I am waiting for the Pfizer one to be made available, since it seems the safer of the two Australians can currently source. Plus it's phase 3 testing is closer to concluding than the other western vaccines.

[Igor Antunov]

Ironic how we were called Racist for saying the virus came from China, while the same people are now falling back on the "Chinese(and Indian) products are dodgy" racist stereotypes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CoronaVac

Seems pretty effective and doesn't need special storage needs. And importantly it's phase 3 trials are completed.

Personally I am waiting for the Pfizer one to be made available, since it seems the safer of the two Australians can currently source. Plus it's phase 3 testing is closer to concluding than the other western vaccines.

Well a million Pfizer shots just arrived in NSW. And my local suburb is now a designated state regional vaccination hub with capacity for 20,000 vaccinations per week. I can literally walk 5 minutes over to a giant shed and get the jab right now. Still not getting jabbed.

[Pants-of-dog]

Ironic how we were called Racist for saying the virus came from China, while the same people are now falling back on the "Chinese(and Indian) products are dodgy" racist stereotypes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CoronaVac

Seems pretty effective and doesn't need special storage needs. And importantly it's phase 3 trials are completed.

Personally I am waiting for the Pfizer one to be made available, since it seems the safer of the two Australians can currently source. Plus it's phase 3 testing is closer to concluding than the other western vaccines.

Pfizer finished its phase 3 trials months ago.

So if you think these vaccines have not done their phase 3 trials, you are simply wrong.

[Politics_Observer]

@Igor Antunov

Well a million Pfizer shots just arrived in NSW. And my local suburb is now a designated state regional vaccination hub with capacity for 20,000 vaccinations per week. I can literally walk 5 minutes over to a giant shed and get the jab right now. Still not getting jabbed.

You really should get the jab. What is motivating you to not get the vaccination? I find it odd that healthy people who can be vaccinated without issue are willing to put themselves at great risk of catching COVID by refusing to get the jab.

[Rancid]

You really should get the jab. What is motivating you to not get the vaccination? I find it odd that healthy people who can be vaccinated without issue are willing to put themselves at great risk of catching COVID by refusing to get the jab.

Don't bother to try and understand it. I'll try to explain it though.

I know people that got the jab, had 0 side effects and now say they regret taking it. If they could go back in time and not take it, they would. WHen I pressed them for an explanation. I got "I just don't like being told what to do". There's a certain psychological mechanism at play. It's basically that people don't like being suggested to do certain things. These are people that take genuine suggestions as a threat or criticism. When that happens, they immediately clam up and refuse the suggestion. It's some sort of defense mechanism that gets applied to this situation. I'm sure these are people that in general have issues with control/power/fear/trust in their day to day lives.

It almost has nothing to do with the jab itself, really. However, because they themselves do not have the self-awareness and understanding in their own psyche; they will dress up the resistance in all of these explanations about the jab. However, it's not really the jab, it's their misunderstanding of their own self.

I suspect is these people are shady themselves. They do not trust themselves, so why trust anyone else?

[Politics_Observer]

@Rancid

I know man, to me it's a strange phenomenon. I suspect that politics somehow plays a role in this. Like in republican leaning states, there is less vaccination. Do you think it goes much deeper than politics though?

[Rancid]

@Rancid

I know man, to me it's a strange phenomenon. I suspect that politics somehow plays a role in this. Like in republican leaning states, there is less vaccination. Do you think it goes much deeper than politics though?

That's what I'm getting at. This goes deeper than politics. It just so happens that conservatives are more likely to not understand themselves, and their own psychology. This is because they are driven by fear. Side note, there is research that confirms conservatives respond to negative/fear/pessimism more strongly then the rest of the population. It's why "they are taking your jobs/guns/safety" is so effective. Trump was able to tap into that in spades. Anyway, so yes, it's deeper than politics.

Conservatives are less likely to self-reflect, they are more likely to react to situations as opposed to stop, think, respond. They are effectively more instinctual and less intellectual. In short, stupid people are more likely (not always of course) to be conservative. This makes it easy for the smart conservatives to manipulate them with fear.

None the less, this is due to the inner workings of their psychology, and not because of their conservatism. Their conservatism is simply a common symptom.

[Politics_Observer]

@Rancid

That makes total sense and I actually agree with your assessment. Conservatives are conservative partly because of their psychology and many conservatives simply don't understand their own psychology. They might think they do but in reality, many don't. Manipulators are able to easily manipulate these conservatives because of this psychology and the fact that conservatives lack a true understanding of their own psychology. So, this makes them more susceptible to manipulation which acts against their own best interest.

[XogGyux]

I think people who refuse vaccination should pay a fine, because they are responsible for the spread of the virus and they are those who get hospitalised. So they have to pay.$

Any other Ideas???

If the fear of death, disability, hospitalization is not cutting it, do you think any sort of fine would make a difference? Then how do you enforce it? Do you make people that got vaccinated get a tattoo on their foreheads? Do you force everyone that got vaccinated to carry some sort of identification?

[colliric]

@Igor Antunov
You really should get the jab. What is motivating you to not get the vaccination? I find it odd that healthy people who can be vaccinated without issue are willing to put themselves at great risk of catching COVID by refusing to get the jab.

Actually there is legit little to no risk of him getting the disease and same goes for me. So why are you trying to force him to take something he doesn't actually need at the moment? There's been extremely little cases in Australia in comparison to our overall population and very very very little deaths. In fact only 2-3 since October last year, all in high risk age groups.

There's just no compelling reason at all to be significantly concerned at all. The Flu did in fact kill more people last year, despite being far less lethal, because the government has done a great job minimising cases since the initial outbreaks.

You rush to vaccine the whole world people are extremely self-centred and extremely selfish. Basically trying to strong arm vaccines just so you can travel back overseas and burn jet fuels. Extremely selfish.

There is little to no risk of me catching this virus or ever passing it on. I'd have a better chance of winning the lottery at the moment. Especially because our governments have done a good job hunting down every single case, and locking down hard.

There is just no need to rush the population into a mass vaccination campaign. The Australian and NZ governments need fix up their vaccine supply situation first anyway.