[Skynet]

I think people who refuse vaccination should pay a fine, because they are responsible for the spread of the virus and they are those who get hospitalised. So they have to pay.$

Any other Ideas???

[Rancid]

If we are to live in a free society, then we have to allow people to be irresponsible to some degree. As such, it means that the broader society does have to pay for their irresponsibility (death, hospital costs, etc.) I do not believe a fine is appropriate for this. If the virus was far more deadly, especially to children, then I would certainly consider a fine as a solution, but this doesn't rise to that level for me.

I think public education campaigns is all we can do. We should focus these efforts not on the anti-vaxx morons, but the people that are just being lazy. The people that just need a kick in the butt to get get a vaccine. We should focus mostly on getting those vaccinated, adn just let all the anti-vaxx morons die. We are better off without them anyway.

[wat0n]

I think people who refuse vaccination should pay a fine, because they are responsible for the spread of the virus and they are those who get hospitalised. So they have to pay.$

Any other Ideas???

I have a few:

• Keep incentives to be vaccinated, such as holding lotteries for the vaccinated or getting a free drink if you do
• If ICU beds are scarce due to COVID, announce the unvaccinated will get lower priority than the vaccinated. This may be extended to other diseases too - if the unvaccinated guy dies, he dies.
• Make it lawful for employers to require vaccination for workers to access company premises, with termination without any type of severance pay for those who don't provide proof of vaccination. If it turns out they are unvaccinated, they would also have no right to UI
• Schools and universities can refuse entry to the unvaccinated
• Allow businesses and public buildings to request proof of vaccination for entry or to demand the unvaccinated to wear face masks

If you don't want to be vaccinated and deal with the risks, it's your right but I have no obligation to expose myself to contagion just because of your negligence either. On the contrary, I also have a right not to expose myself to contagion at all.

[Rancid]

[*]If ICU beds are scarce due to COVID, announce the unvaccinated will get lower priority than the vaccinated. This may be extended to other diseases too - if the guy does, he dies.

I like this

[JohnRawls]

I think people who refuse vaccination should pay a fine, because they are responsible for the spread of the virus and they are those who get hospitalised. So they have to pay.$

Any other Ideas???

No, that is not something that we can do because it will carry a horrible precedent of abuse of power. Quarantines and lockdowns are fine but forced vaccination is not. If you force people to this extent then when and where do we draw the line between us and autocracies? Totalitarian and autocratic societies whole pitch is that you submit in exchange for stability and some form of good life with all the positives and benefits. Democratic societies do not behave that way and human rights are respected. Forcing somebody to vaccinate against his will violates human rights even if it is a "good" thing in this case.

Philosophically speaking this is justice that is based on fairness as my real life forum name sake presented in his work. Justice is not based just on utilitarian principle of benefit and loss. Justice as fairness. Google it.

[Skynet]

No, that is not something that we can do because it will carry a horrible precedent of abuse of power. Quarantines and lockdowns are fine but forced vaccination is not.

Quarantines and Lockdowns are a bigger attack on individual freedom then vaccines. If you do not want vaccine pay a fine to cover the costs of the illness you help to thrive.

[JohnRawls]

Quarantines and Lockdowns are a bigger attack on individual freedom then vaccines. If you do not want vaccine pay a fine to cover the costs of the illness.

Quarantines and Lockdowns are a temporary violation of human movement that can be enacted and removed at any given time.

Vaccination is already a violation of a persons body or personal life which is far more serious. On top of that, the measures that most suggest go directly against the definition of justice in a Rawlsian way basically you try to restrict access to offices and positions and discriminate between the vaccinated and unvaccinated. This principle should NEVER be violated because otherwise the decision making is unjust. Unequal treatment is possible only for the benefit of the least fortunate (poor and so on) but the equal access to offices and positions should takes precedence. Basically if you want to help somebody then it can not override equal access which takes precedence.

[Pants-of-dog]

It would be difficult to enforce a fine without invading someone’s privacy.

And punishing negative behaviour is rarely as effective as rewarding good behaviour.

If I were Mayor Of All The Cities, I would also look at what stops a person who is not vaccine hesitant from getting the shot.

For many homeless people here in Edmonton, the lack of a health care card is probably the number one obstacle. So some sort of program to get homeless people into the medicare system would be needed.

[wat0n]

Quarantines and Lockdowns are a temporary violation of human movement that can be enacted and removed at any given time.

Vaccination is already a violation of a persons body or personal life which is far more serious. On top of that, the measures that most suggest go directly against the definition of justice in a Rawlsian way basically you try to restrict access to offices and positions and discriminate between the vaccinated and unvaccinated. This principle should NEVER be violated because otherwise the decision making is unjust. Unequal treatment is possible only for the benefit of the least fortunate (poor and so on) but the equal access to offices and positions should takes precedence. Basically if you want to help somebody then it can not override equal access which takes precedence.

There is no reason for people who don't want to be vaccinated to face no costs for their own individual decisions when vaccines are free and easy to access.

We don't give equal access to driving to the blind, for example, and at least a blind person will rarely be blind by deliberate choice. Why would we give equal access to the unvaccinated to place everyone else, particularly those with weakened immune systems, at risk? By the way the latter are, in fact, the least fortunate in the current context. Even the homeless can be vaccinated free of charge if they wish.

[Fasces]

Stop trying to apply a logical solution.

Take a bunch of crystals, random mushrooms, and other natural ingredients, not of which are activated. Put them in a topical cream. Name it Tox-Away: It sucks the toxins out of the skin!

Users should apply topically one - two hours before getting the vaccine, and apply every six hours for the week after. It'll suck all the toxins out of your arm, making the vaccine safe and healthy!

Advertise on vaccine skeptical sites and shows.

Profit!

[Godstud]

@Fasces, in SE Asia just mention that there is a special additive in a new version of the vaccine, that makes the skin whiter. Charge more for the one with the whitener!

Advertise on vaccine skeptical sites and shows.

Profit$!

[B0ycey]

I think people who refuse vaccination should pay a fine, because they are responsible for the spread of the virus and they are those who get hospitalised. So they have to pay.$

Any other Ideas???

I would say the vaccine is a privilege and as such should be treated as such. Besides, the incentive will be naturally occurring anyway. Nations will soon not accept unvaccinated people from entering and that should make a huge number of travellers get vaccinated. And it may also be a requirement for profession which will be another incentive for new employees. Also the hesitation in the vaccines seem due to safety which over time will be proven unequivocally due to the vast amount of people vaccinated having no reaction. However in the meantime a way to get people vaccinated may well be to not give the cynics a reason not to take it. Perhaps stop having major headlines for blood clots or heart immflamation when the odds are greater than a million to one from happening. Had we the same rational behaviour with road safety, nobody would be anywhere near a fucking road ffs.

[Igor Antunov]

Complete trials and come up with a finished near-zero risk vaccine. That should do it.

[AFAIK]

You need to convince people to get vaccinated. If you resort to coercion quickly that just signals that the vaccines aren't safe since you have to force people to take them.

[Godstud]

Complete trials and come up with a finished near-zero risk vaccine.

The trials will continue for years. You're taking shit you got from a Facebook meme, as gospel, and you call people who want to get vaccinated midwits?

Vaccine trials don't end once the vaccine is no longer experimental, as the covid-19 vaccines are not. They continue. That's how science works.

Fuck, anti-vaxxers are stupid! True fuckwits, if ever there were any.

If you resort to coercion quickly that just signals that the vaccines aren't safe since you have to force people to take them.

They are safe. Two BILLION people have been vaccinated. Mass deaths have not occurred. Your irrational fears are unwarranted, and absurd.

I highly doubt even a hundred people have died from adverse reactions to the vaccines, and given the numbers vaccinated, that makes it more likely to be struck by lightning... twice.

[colliric]

Complete trials and come up with a finished near-zero risk vaccine. That should do it.

Yep. Also offer the one people think is the safer one, Instead of force them to take the vaccine brand they don't want to. Give them options.

Also do more ads like this:

And this

I would be more inclined to consider a vaccine if I was offered options and saw more videos of real patients.

Less multi-million dollar fear porn commercials using bad payed actors please!

[Igor Antunov]

The trials will continue for years. You're taking shit you got from a Facebook meme, as gospel, and you call people who want to get vaccinated midwits?

Vaccine trials don't end once the vaccine is no longer experimental, as the covid-19 vaccines are not. They continue. That's how science works.

Fuck, anti-vaxxers are stupid! True fuckwits, if ever there were any.

They are safe. Two BILLION people have been vaccinated. Mass deaths have not occurred. Your irrational fears are unwarranted, and absurd.

I highly doubt even a hundred people have died from adverse reactions to the vaccines, and given the numbers vaccinated, that makes it more likely to be struck by lightning... twice.

Nah you're just hoping this is the case. We cannot know yet. Why...the rush? Are you just afraid of the virus?

And yes I've been struck by lightning (partially while standing on my verandah) and once a tree 30m away from me was struck while at primary school and it was snapped in half and I got scared. Terrible example. You just made me less inclined tO gEt ThE JaB.

[colliric]

I'm going to be a bit rude and say Godstud probably wants international travel to return ASAP Igor. He probably feels stuck in that country right now. Even if he's happy living there.

I don't give a flying fuck about the return of international travel, since I'm not going anywhere anytime soon regardless. Probably the reason why I care less about reopening our boarders and having mass vaccinations than him.

[Godstud]

Borders, not boarders. Half a brain isn't serving you well, @colliric.

You weren't struck by lightning, @Igor Antunov. You're full of shit! You'd have been hospitalized if you were.

Also, they DO know that the vaccines are safe. They are 100,000 times safer than Covid-19, and that's just a fact that brain-dead people cannot accept. Pretending that a vaccine is going to cause people to die in a few years only shows how absurdly stupid anti-vaxxer morons, truly are.

[Igor Antunov]

No I'm not full of shit and no the mrna vaccines are not safe enough for my liking. Neither is Covid, but frankly at my age the risk is meager and I choose not to get that either. Hence mask social distancing and keeping my hands and surfaces clean.

Frankly at this point it is much harder to get covid than the vaccine in this country. Much harder.

In order to acquire the infinitesimally tiny chance of dying from the virus you have to first be infected by the virus which itself is a low probability event, whereas once you sign off on the "vaccine" you've taken it 100%

So it's not just a comparison between the fatality rate of the virus vs. the potential fatality rate of the "vaccine", but between the fatality rate of the virus times the positivity rate vs. the potential fatality rate of the "vaccine" * 100%, e.g. 0.1%*1% vs. 0.1%*100%



So that's that. Zero risk for me for the time being. When they give us more options I'll get vaccinated.

Also I actually care about international travel colliric, probably more so than Godstud. However I'm far more realistic than most. Even if we were JaBbEd 10x tomorrow with 10 different vaccines, we probably won't be allowed to leave our countries for leisure anytime soon within the next 5+ years, simply because this kind of virus is going nowhere. It will take years for people especially governments to warm to the fact that this is indeed just another influenza and it is going nowhere.

Furthermore the more we vaccinate against ever more rare and localised covid strains en-masse, the more likely it becomes a serious virus as shown in this sorry tale of the once benign chicken virus that after millennia of doing absolutely nothing to chickens became 100% lethal thanks to our intervention 90 years ago.