[JohnRawls]

A significant portion of the GOP base legit believes in a combination cult/conspiracy theory that all Democrats will be executed on live national broadcast just lmfao if you think there is anything resembling anything intellectual or even the barest outlines of a coherent and consistent ideology in the GOP.

They love the abortion law because it punishes poor women. That's it. They won't tell you that, but that's why.

That is true and the percentage is not small. If I was given a number then I would say around 1/3rd of the party does believe in that. This number is different for each state though but average i suppose is 1/3rd. So to make the party more unified again, how much from the 2/3rds will they need to sacrifice is the question that you should be asking. It really doesn't matter if Republicans conduct voter suppression since they are probably loosing more voters than they can ever supress for example. And massive suppressions and falsifications are just not possible within the US system.

[Unthinking Majority]

They were only for it when it benefited them. As soon as it became inconvenient, well... you have Jan 6th.

About half of Republican supporters polled saw the Jan. 6 riots as "legitimate protest". So we know that about 50% of Republicans and 25% of the US voting population is straight batshit crazy.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackbrewst ... 3cab626ce4

I have no data on how many on the left are also crazy, but it seems to be increasing.

[JohnRawls]

A significant portion of the GOP base legit believes in a combination cult/conspiracy theory that all Democrats will be executed on live national broadcast just lmfao if you think there is anything resembling anything intellectual or even the barest outlines of a coherent and consistent ideology in the GOP.

They love the abortion law because it punishes poor women. That's it. They won't tell you that, but that's why.



Lmao all Trump did was say the quiet parts out loud because he's an idiot.

Trump is basically what the Simpsons is now: he grew up on it and now he is old enough to write episodes and produce fanfiction. He was too stupid to realize rightwing garbage was made to pacify idiots like him, not something anyone in power was supposed to actually believe.

The reasoning doesn't matter anymore. What is done IS done.

[SpecialOlympian]

That is true and the percentage is not small. If I was given a number then I would say around 1/3rd of the party does believe in that. This number is different for each state though but average i suppose is 1/3rd. So to make the party more unified again, how much from the 2/3rds will they need to sacrifice is the question that you should be asking. It really doesn't matter if Republicans conduct voter suppression since they are probably loosing more voters than they can ever supress for example. And massive suppressions and falsifications are just not possible within the US system.

It doesn't matter because that 2/3rds will vote for any GOP candidate even if they're Literally Hitler, and the remaining third needs to be pandered to by megaphoning loud and insane conspiracy theories, so they dictate how everything goes.

Part of the reason Democrats suck is because they think they can get American fascists to cross the aisle and vote for them, when the best they can do is get them to stay home and not vote. Which they don't need to do, because they represent more people but good luck on getting them to advance any decent policy that would actually turn people out.

[JohnRawls]

It doesn't matter because that 2/3rds will vote for any GOP candidate even if they're Literally Hitler, and the remaining third needs to be pandered to by megaphoning loud and insane conspiracy theories, so they dictate how everything goes.

Part of the reason Democrats suck is because they think they can get American fascists to cross the aisle and vote for them, when the best they can do is get them to stay home and not vote. Which they don't need to do, because they represent more people but good luck on getting them to advance any decent policy that would actually turn people out.

Not really true and not how "democracy" works. You are trying to imply that people vote for the least worst candidate and the definition of least worst never changes. Reality is people vote for many different reasons and definition of least worst definitely changes all the time. I vote, for example, for parties who provide what I think the country needs right now so I have no moral dilemma of switching sides. Your strict definition of least worst voting and american "tribalism" of sorts doesn't take in to account the fact that Republicans will inevitably have different ideas of who is the least worst after the 6th of june, after the Covid insanity and so on. It won't be the majority of the party at the same time and it won't be instant but it will happen slowly and surely if nothing changes. Pre-Trump Republican party consensus is dead so to unify again, you need to evict or convert the unhappy elements. Alternative they could have forgotten the consensus and tried to actively steal from the Democrats some portion of their base but with what promises? Realistically only some of the Unions could defect to Trump due to his China stance and that is it.

[Unthinking Majority]

It doesn't matter because that 2/3rds will vote for any GOP candidate even if they're Literally Hitler,

It would be legit curious to know how well Hitler would poll among GOP supporters if Hitler were a GOP candidate and they just changed his name to Schmidt or something and cut off the mustache.

[Godstud]

They already did, @Unthinking Majority He changed his named from Hitler to Drumpf and finally settled on Trump.

People aren't going to help women wanting abortions to leave Texas for one, because someone will turn them in for a cash reward.

[Pants-of-dog]

A company called Salesforce is offering to move any of its employees out of Texas.

Uber and Lyft are both offering to pay legal fees for any of their employees that get sued.

https://www.newser.com/story/310926/thi ... n-ban.html

[Drlee]

This coup has already succeeded. What is all this talk of votes? The Fascists have guaranteed that they will be in power for at least 30 years.

Seriously folks. Someone tell me where the opposition to them will come from. There is none.

[XogGyux]

This coup has already succeeded. What is all this talk of votes? The Fascists have guaranteed that they will be in power for at least 30 years.

Seriously folks. Someone tell me where the opposition to them will come from. There is none.

Not really. As much pain and suffering as this might cause in the meantime. Society moves forward becoming more liberal. It is just a matter of time. It is like the kid that throws themselves on the floor of the toy store and start crying. That might delay the exit by a few minutes, but mom will grab you by the arm and take you out no matter how much you cry and kick.

[ckaihatsu]

It is like the kid that throws themselves on the floor of the toy store and start crying.

I thought it was going to be *Arizona*....

[XogGyux]

I thought it was going to be *Arizona*....

Dude. Your cryptic one-liners...

[ckaihatsu]

I thought it was going to be *Arizona*....

Dude. Your cryptic one-liners...

Not that cryptic after all -- I simply meant that I thought it would be *Arizona* to be the state that's proactively *reactionary* compared to the rest of the country, and not necessarily *Texas*.

[Drlee]

Never use Arizona as an example of a state in the USA. It does not behave like one. We have the reputation of being a far right state. Our legislature is a joke. It actually tried to enact a law that allowed children to carry guns to school. It is mired in a grandstand play about voter fraud that is staggering to a stop.

But at that.....

Arizona has the 4th highest minimum wage in the country and a relatively low cost of living.

Arizona has universal health care provided by the state when necessary.

Arizona has legal recreational pot and allows individuals to grow their own pot.

Arizona has two Democratic Senators. One, admittedly a DINO but at least gay.

It is run by the republicans mainly because of gerrymandering. Otherwise it would be pale blue.

[B0ycey]

Not really true and not how "democracy" works. You are trying to imply that people vote for the least worst candidate and the definition of least worst never changes.

In America, where your choice is two, I would always say you would indeed vote for the least worse candidate actually. Besides, what policy do you think is different between the Republicans and Democrats? Is it health, education, taxation, geopolitics, defence or something else? Because from where I sit across the pond, the colour of the ribbon on the President has changed colour 5 times since Reagan but the things that matter have not. The best that has come from America in terms of these things was Obama care, which is a shit alternative to universal free healthcare anyway. And that is solely down to who is really running America which are the sponsors behind the candidate. And donors back both sides.

[JohnRawls]

In America, where your choice is two, I would always say you would indeed vote for the least worse candidate actually. Besides, what policy do you think is different between the Republicans and Democrats? Is it health, education, taxation, geopolitics, defence or something else? Because from where I sit across the pond, the colour of the ribbon on the President has changed colour 5 times since Reagan but the things that matter have not. The best that has come from America in terms of these things was Obama care, which is a shit alternative to universal free healthcare anyway. And that is solely down to who is really running America which are the sponsors behind the candidate. And donors back both sides.

Yeah, not how it works. Although there are questions about sponsors having influence but it is not the same as control. You might not like the American solution through lobbying but it is not the worst actually. The other 3 alternatives are corruption like in authoritarian states, almost direct control like in Germany who basically dictate internal and external policy and no control which obviously is chaotic since business interest needs to be represented to some degree.

As for difference in policies well that depends on the election. Vaccinations, masks, measures against Covid as one. Relationships with allies around the world and how to approach that is another difference between Biden and Trump. Then there are local social questions like abortions, rights, immigration and so on. Then there is the economic policy of constantly reducing taxes vs trying to do something with that money instead of reducing taxes.

There are plenty of differences if you actually try to look.

[B0ycey]

Yeah, not how it works. Although there are questions about sponsors having influence but it is not the same as control. You might not like the American solution through lobbying but it is not the worst actually. The other 3 alternatives are corruption like in authoritarian states, almost direct control like in Germany who basically dictate internal and external policy and no control which obviously is chaotic since business interest needs to be represented to some degree.

What you talking about? America is so full of corruption it is unreal. Like the Flint water crisis,. How the fuck did that one happen?

The truth is gun control, healthcare, education, fair pay, working conditions, infrastructure, climate denial, poor transport, low corporation tax, loophole creation, gerrymandering, illegal wars, government contracts, vote suppression, nepotism, planning permission and basically every single BS policy that you can think of will no doubt come down to lobbyists and party self interest. And both parties don't address the things that matter and as such even with Biden in charge, a leader I don't mind actually, America will still be in a worse state than it what it was before he took office. The only president that actually wanted to make change was Obama. And when he left office, we still had nothing but a minor commitment on climate, nothing on pay and working conditions, low corporation tax, no gun control, the same education infrastructure, two illegal wars and Obamacare which was shit compared to social care. Where are the improvements John?

As for difference in policies well that depends on the election. Vaccinations, masks, measures against Covid as one. Relationships with allies around the world and how to approach that is another difference between Biden and Trump. Then there are local social questions like abortions, rights, immigration and so on. Then there is the economic policy of constantly reducing taxes vs trying to do something with that money instead of reducing taxes.

There are plenty of differences if you actually try to look.

Right, it is annoying when people think Trump was against vaccines. He promoted operation warp speed ffs. He wasn't a hiderance for the Covid response actually and you can thank Harris for starting the political quagmire of making this issue political when she said she wouldn't take any vaccine that Trump endorsed. Sure he was a skeptic of masks when he should have worn them. But he never said that we shouldn't wear them anyway. I understand that the biggest dumbshits on the planet that don't want to be vaccinated happen to be Republicans, but association isn't correlation and I don't think or have known that it is GOP policy to no get vaccinated.

As for immigration, Biden began with the rhetoric that the Mexico border should be opened for all, but when everyone started to come he soon changed his tune. He is now talking about restarting Trumps border control, the very one he called inhumane. Although it should be said that it is in the interest of the Bourgeois to have unfettered immigration as it lowers pay and as such we shouldn't be surprised that border controls haven't been tackled correctly by both parties.

As for rights, what rights has the Democrats enacted since Reagan? If anything, gun ownership is a US right as it is in the constitution (although it is for a regulated military not personal use to shoot neighbours in disputes) and trans rights isn't, although apart from Trumps toilet act, those rights haven't been infringed anyway. And sure, I would say abortion seems to be something that both parties disagree on but that isn't really the big thing that effects most families anyway. And I don't understand why Biden just doesn't start a program to give people free interstate travel to have an abortion if he cares about the subject so much. What you find is that both parties use a lot of rhetoric to build up a voter base, but when it comes to actual action, nothing happens.

[ckaihatsu]

Never use Arizona as an example of a state in the USA. It does not behave like one. We have the reputation of being a far right state. Our legislature is a joke. It actually tried to enact a law that allowed children to carry guns to school. It is mired in a grandstand play about voter fraud that is staggering to a stop.

But at that.....

Arizona has the 4th highest minimum wage in the country and a relatively low cost of living.

Arizona has universal health care provided by the state when necessary.

Arizona has legal recreational pot and allows individuals to grow their own pot.

Arizona has two Democratic Senators. One, admittedly a DINO but at least gay.

It is run by the republicans mainly because of gerrymandering. Otherwise it would be pale blue.

Good to know, but the following is what jumps to *my* mind, regarding the state:

Joe Arpaio

Actions as Maricopa County Sheriff

Changes to jail operations

During his term as Sheriff, Arpaio began to serve inmates spoiled food and limited meal times to twice a day.[30]

Arpaio banned inmates from possessing "sexually explicit material" including Playboy magazine, after female officers complained that inmates openly masturbated while viewing them, or harassed the officers by comparing their anatomy to the nude photographs in the publications. The ban was challenged on First Amendment grounds but upheld by the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit.[31]

In February 2007, Arpaio instituted an in-house radio station he calls KJOE.[32] Arpaio's radio station broadcasts classical music, opera, Frank Sinatra hits, American patriotic music, and educational programming. It operates from the basement of the county jail for five days a week, four hours each day.[citation needed]

In March 2007, the Maricopa County Jail hosted "Inmate Idol",[33] a takeoff on the popular television series American Idol.

Starting in July 2000, the Maricopa County Sheriff's website hosted “Jail Cam”, a 24-hour Internet webcast of images from cameras in the Madison Street Jail, a facility which processed and housed pretrial detainees. The goals of the broadcasts were the deterrence of future crime and improved public scrutiny of jail procedures. The cameras showed arrestees being brought in handcuffed, fingerprinted, booked, and taken to holding cells; with the site receiving millions of hits per day.[34] Twenty-four former detainees brought suit against the Sheriff's office, arguing that their Fourteenth Amendment rights of due process had been violated.[citation needed]

Under Arpaio, the Maricopa County Jails have lost accreditation multiple times.[35] In September 2008, the National Commission on Correctional Health Care (NCCHC) terminated the accreditation of all Maricopa County Sheriff's Office jails for failure to maintain compliance with national standards, and providing false information about such compliance.[36][37] In October, 2008, judge Neil V. Wake of the United States District Court for the District of Arizona ruled that grossly inadequate conditions at the Maricopa County Jail, overseen by Arpaio, are unconstitutional and jeopardize the health and safety of prisoners.[38]

Tent City

Arpaio set up a "tent city" as an extension of the Maricopa County Jail (33°25′40″N 112°07′26″W). Tent City is located in a yard next to a more permanent structure containing toilets, showers, an area for meals, and a day room.[39] It has become notable particularly because of Phoenix, Arizona's extreme temperatures. Daytime temperatures inside the tents have been reported as high as 150 °F (65 °C) in the top bunks.[40]

During the summer of 2003, when outside temperatures exceeded 110 °F (43 °C), which is higher than average, Arpaio said to complaining inmates, "It's 120 degrees in Iraq and the soldiers are living in tents, have to wear full body armor, and they didn't commit any crimes, so shut your mouths."[41] Inmates were given permission to wear only their pink underwear.[citation needed]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maricopa_ ... Joe_Arpaio

[JohnRawls]

What you talking about? America is so full of corruption it is unreal. Like the Flint water crisis,. How the fuck did that one happen?

The truth is gun control, healthcare, education, fair pay, working conditions, infrastructure, climate denial, poor transport, low corporation tax, loophole creation, gerrymandering, illegal wars, government contracts, vote suppression, nepotism, planning permission and basically every single BS policy that you can think of will no doubt come down to lobbyists and party self interest. And both parties don't address the things that matter and as such even with Biden in charge, a leader I don't mind actually, America will still be in a worse state than it what it was before he took office. The only president that actually wanted to make change was Obama. And when he left office, we still had nothing but a minor commitment on climate, nothing on pay and working conditions, low corporation tax, no gun control, the same education infrastructure, two illegal wars and Obamacare which was shit compared to social care. Where are the improvements John?



Right, it is annoying when people think Trump was against vaccines. He promoted operation warp speed ffs. He wasn't a hiderance for the Covid response actually and you can thank Harris for starting the political quagmire of making this issue political when she said she wouldn't take any vaccine that Trump endorsed. Sure he was a skeptic of masks when he should have worn them. But he never said that we shouldn't wear them anyway. I understand that the biggest dumbshits on the planet that don't want to be vaccinated happen to be Republicans, but association isn't correlation and I don't think or have known that it is GOP policy to no get vaccinated.

As for immigration, Biden began with the rhetoric that the Mexico border should be opened for all, but when everyone started to come he soon changed his tune. He is now talking about restarting Trumps border control, the very one he called inhumane. Although it should be said that it is in the interest of the Bourgeois to have unfettered immigration as it lowers pay and as such we shouldn't be surprised that border controls haven't been tackled correctly by both parties.

As for rights, what rights has the Democrats enacted since Reagan? If anything, gun ownership is a US right as it is in the constitution (although it is for a regulated military not personal use to shoot neighbours in disputes) and trans rights isn't, although apart from Trumps toilet act, those rights haven't been infringed anyway. And sure, I would say abortion seems to be something that both parties disagree on but that isn't really the big thing that effects most families anyway. And I don't understand why Biden just doesn't start a program to give people free interstate travel to have an abortion if he cares about the subject so much. What you find is that both parties use a lot of rhetoric to build up a voter base, but when it comes to actual action, nothing happens.

You expect all that to be changed to your liking and under 1 president? That is a bit too much I think and also kinda doesn't account for the fact that American culture is not the same as UK culture and so on. The differences will always exist. US system has historically been less fair but more prone to success that is the American dream so to speak.

Ultimately it is a question of which system is more stable. I don't have an answer to this. Income in America is higher on average lets say compared to UK or Netherlands but Netherlands and UK averages show that their disposable income when subtracting different services and values is higher compared to the US. Not by a lot but higher. So in a sense life for the average 80% is perhaps better in the Western European countries while life for the top 20% is better in the US.

[B0ycey]

You expect all that to be changed to your liking and under 1 president? That is a bit too much I think and also kinda doesn't account for the fact that American culture is not the same as UK culture and so on. The differences will always exist. US system has historically been less fair but more prone to success that is the American dream so to speak.

The system has gone backwards since Reagan John. There was a time when a single working man could provide a very good standard of living for his family. Now that standard of living is only found in Suburbia. So yes is the answer. We should have seen change by now because the problems are still occurring from 30 years on and although the problem was quick to occur, the fix seems impossible now. Also America and the UK political system are similar in many ways. And BoJo, over night was able to secure social care reforms (by using the wrong tax but that is another story) which were very much needed indeed. Also Obama wanted to do more than Obamacare but was unable to. He also wanted to do something for the climate. So why couldn't he do anything given he was the President with control of both houses within it? Answer. He answers to his sponsors and so do those who vote is the Capitol. He can't do the change needed because to do so is again his own self interest and the interest of his donors. And Biden has the same handicap. And so will the next president and the president after that. In many ways that is worse than corruption. That is legal corruption and the president has his hands tied behind his back because to become a president means doing others work for them.

Ultimately it is a question of which system is more stable. I don't have an answer to this. Income in America is higher on average lets say compared to UK or Netherlands but Netherlands and UK averages show that their disposable income when subtracting different services and values is higher compared to the US. Not by a lot but higher. So in a sense life for the average 80% is perhaps better in the Western European countries while life for the top 20% is better in the US.

The UK is better than the US for standards of living and yet our GDP is lower given our social programs. And the same is true for Western Europe. And perhaps true for Eastern EU members as well. And really the king of Standard of living is Scandinavia due to having a brilliant socialism program with a high fair tax system. The US however has more billionaires and Millionaires. It also has more people below the poverty line. Why is that? Because the system is rigged John. The US is perfect if you are wealthy. A low tax, corporate friendly haven that has a A+ financial market, globalisation, the universal world currency economy with a BS minimum wage program. So that is a contradiction. And really that is why the EU is better. Or to me it is. You want a system that works for everyone. Not the top 1%.