[Puffer Fish]

We've been repeatedly told things (from the US) like "98 percent of hospitalizations are unvaccinated", but is this type of talk really true?

To get a better picture of this, I think it is better to look at a country like Singapore, which would be less likely to be biased by political narratives.


Mr Ong said that overall, about 70 per cent of seniors aged 70 and above were vaccinated while more than 85 per cent of those between 60 and 69 years old had received their two vaccine doses. ​

Covid-19: Half of Singapore’s population fully vaccinated, but 200,000 seniors still yet to get jabs - TODAY (todayonline.com) July 20, 2021
https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/c ... t-get-jabs


In Singapore, vaccinated people made up three-quarters of recent Covid-19 cases, but few fell ill | South China Morning Post (scmp.com)
https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/southeas ... ers-recent


Singapore - The Ministry of Health on September 6, 2021 confirmed 241 new COVID-19 cases in Singapore, taking the country's total case count to 68,901.

Of them, 235 are locally transmitted, including 110 unlinked infections. Among the cases are six patients above the age of 70 who are unvaccinated or partially vaccinated, and are at risk of serious illness, said the Ministry of Health.

At least 66,600 cases in Singapore, or over 99 per cent of the overall total, have fully recovered from their infection and have been discharged from the hospital.

As of Sunday, 653 cases are currently warded, most of whom are well and under observation.

There are currently 24 cases of serious illness requiring oxygen supplementation and five in critical condition in the intensive care unit (ICU).

Of those who have fallen very ill, 22 are patients above the age of 60, of whom 11 are completely unvaccinated or partially vaccinated, said the Ministry.

Six cases are imported, of whom four were detected upon their arrival here while one developed symptoms during their stay-home notice or isolation period.​

241 new COVID cases in Singapore, including 110 unlinked (msn.com)
https://www.msn.com/en-sg/news/singapor ... ar-AAO97q8

So out of 235 cases of infections, and only looking at the 70-and-above age category, only 6 of them were unvaccinated!

(In 2020, residents aged 65 years and above made up 15.2 percent of the total resident population in Singapore.
15.2 percent of 235 comes out to about 35.7 , so we can still see that very few of them were unvaccinated)

Do you notice anything here? Only 6 out of maybe 30 or 35 elderly hospitalization cases were unvaccinated, but 70% of elderly people in this country were vaccinated.
From these statistics, it's definitely not looking like vaccination offers a protective effect for the elderly against requiring hospitalization.

22 out of the 24 cases where people got very sick were over the age of 60.
This is equivalent to 91.6%.

[wat0n]

I'm not sure about how you arrived to the conclusion that vaccination does not protect against hospitalization when your own source says that no vaccinated new case during the past month was hospitalized.

[Puffer Fish]

I'm not sure about how you arrived to the conclusion that vaccination does not protect against hospitalization when your own source says that no vaccinated new case during the past month was hospitalized.

Sorry, you're going to have to be more specific. Which link, and can you quote that part of the article?

Sorry, I'm not seeing it.

[wat0n]

In Singapore, vaccinated people made up three-quarters of recent Covid-19 cases, but few fell ill

Data showed that of the 1,096 cases in the last month, 44 per cent were fully vaccinated and 30 per cent partially vaccinated – but none were hospitalised

‘There is continuing evidence that vaccination helps to prevent serious disease when one gets infected,’ the health ministry said

...

[JohnRawls]

We've been repeatedly told things (from the US) like "98 percent of hospitalizations are unvaccinated", but is this type of talk really true?

To get a better picture of this, I think it is better to look at a country like Singapore, which would be less likely to be biased by political narratives.


Mr Ong said that overall, about 70 per cent of seniors aged 70 and above were vaccinated while more than 85 per cent of those between 60 and 69 years old had received their two vaccine doses. ​

Covid-19: Half of Singapore’s population fully vaccinated, but 200,000 seniors still yet to get jabs - TODAY (todayonline.com) July 20, 2021
https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/c ... t-get-jabs


In Singapore, vaccinated people made up three-quarters of recent Covid-19 cases, but few fell ill | South China Morning Post (scmp.com)
https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/southeas ... ers-recent


Singapore - The Ministry of Health on September 6, 2021 confirmed 241 new COVID-19 cases in Singapore, taking the country's total case count to 68,901.

Of them, 235 are locally transmitted, including 110 unlinked infections. Among the cases are six patients above the age of 70 who are unvaccinated or partially vaccinated, and are at risk of serious illness, said the Ministry of Health.

At least 66,600 cases in Singapore, or over 99 per cent of the overall total, have fully recovered from their infection and have been discharged from the hospital.

As of Sunday, 653 cases are currently warded, most of whom are well and under observation.

There are currently 24 cases of serious illness requiring oxygen supplementation and five in critical condition in the intensive care unit (ICU).

Of those who have fallen very ill, 22 are patients above the age of 60, of whom 11 are completely unvaccinated or partially vaccinated, said the Ministry.

Six cases are imported, of whom four were detected upon their arrival here while one developed symptoms during their stay-home notice or isolation period.​

241 new COVID cases in Singapore, including 110 unlinked (msn.com)
https://www.msn.com/en-sg/news/singapor ... ar-AAO97q8

So out of 235 cases of infections, and only looking at the 70-and-above age category, only 6 of them were unvaccinated!

(In 2020, residents aged 65 years and above made up 15.2 percent of the total resident population in Singapore.
15.2 percent of 235 comes out to about 35.7 , so we can still see that very few of them were unvaccinated)

Do you notice anything here? Only 6 out of maybe 30 or 35 elderly hospitalization cases were unvaccinated, but 70% of elderly people in this country were vaccinated.
From these statistics, it's definitely not looking like vaccination offers a protective effect for the elderly against requiring hospitalization.

22 out of the 24 cases where people got very sick were over the age of 60.
This is equivalent to 91.6%.

Singapore also used Sinovac which has known issues like less protection compared to Pfizer or Moderna for example. It does protect again hospitalisations though so even though it is not as good against blocking Covid fully, it still prepares the body to some degree.

[ThirdTerm]

More than 85,000 people in Singapore have received two Sinovac vaccine doses since the first batch of 200,000 arrived in February this year. Two shots of Sinovac only provided an efficacy of 59 percent against COVID-19 caused by the Delta variant. With the Pfizer vaccine, the effectiveness of two doses was 93.7% among persons with the Alpha variant and 88.0% among those with the Delta variant. Even after receiving the second dose of the Sinovac vaccine, the immunity levels are 10 times lower (140) than what one could get after two Pfizer-BioNTech doses (1,900). Despite that, Singapore further allocated 170,000 doses of the Sinovac vaccine to 31 approved private healthcare institutions, while giving away 500,000 Pfizer doses to Australia.

Under the Special Access Route (SAR) framework, the Government has allocated 170,000 doses of the Government's stock of Sinovac-CoronaVac (Sinovac) COVID-19 vaccine to 31 approved private healthcare institutions for a total of 85,000 individuals to receive the vaccine free of charge, based on a two-dose regime per individual for full vaccination.

2. The remaining 30,000 doses of the Government's stock of the Sinovac vaccine have been reserved for Singapore Citizens, Permanent Residents and Long-Term Pass Holders who had allergic reactions to the mRNA vaccines, and for other purposes. Individuals who are allergic to mRNA vaccines will continue to be able to receive Sinovac vaccination and the Ministry of Health (MOH) will separately contact these individuals to arrange for their vaccination appointments.

3. Based on our estimates, the approved private healthcare institutions would have already administered the first dose of vaccines to the 85,000 individuals by 12 August 2021. After ringfencing sufficient doses for individuals coming for second doses of the Sinovac vaccine, the stock for the 31 approved private healthcare institutions will be depleted.

4. MOH has been facilitating private healthcare institutions to order further Sinovac supplies, and we expect the stocks to arrive in the next four to six weeks.

https://www.moh.gov.sg/news-highlights/ ... ac-vaccine

[Puffer Fish]

I'm not sure about how you arrived to the conclusion that vaccination does not protect against hospitalization when your own source says that no vaccinated new case during the past month was hospitalized.

Because some really rough napkin paper calculations or estimates show that, for those over the age of about 65 or 70 (which is where we would expect most of the hospitalisations), the proportion of unvaccinated persons in the hospital was lower than the proportion of unvaccinated persons in the society (in that age group).

I'm not trying to claim the vaccine makes people more likely to needing to be hospitalised, of course. These numbers are small enough there could be some effect of random chance, but it does demonstrate there is likely not a very strong connection between an old person getting the vaccine and not needing to be hospitalised.

There might also be other possible explanations for this correlation which is the opposite of what we might expect, but I can't really think of any obvious ones.

[wat0n]

Because some really rough napkin paper calculations or estimates show that, for those over the age of about 65 or 70 (which is where we would expect most of the hospitalisations), the proportion of unvaccinated persons in the hospital was lower than the proportion of unvaccinated persons in the society (in that age group).

I'm not trying to claim the vaccine makes people more likely to needing to be hospitalised, of course. These numbers are small enough there could be some effect of random chance, but it does demonstrate there is likely not a very strong connection between an old person getting the vaccine and not needing to be hospitalised.

There might also be other possible explanations for this correlation which is the opposite of what we might expect, but I can't really think of any obvious ones.

You are making that inference out of a tiny sample. That's not convincing.

[XogGyux]

We've been repeatedly told things (from the US) like "98 percent of hospitalizations are unvaccinated", but is this type of talk really true?

Roughly yes, this is accurate.

To get a better? picture of this, I think it is better to look at a country like Singapore, which would be less likely to be biased by political narratives.

No it is not better.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Singapore
Singapore is not known for their freedom of the press and/or for their transparency.

Mr Ong said that overall, about 70 per cent of seniors aged 70 and above were vaccinated while more than 85 per cent of those between 60 and 69 years old had received their two vaccine doses. ​

Covid-19: Half of Singapore’s population fully vaccinated, but 200,000 seniors still yet to get jabs - TODAY (todayonline.com) July 20, 2021
https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/c ... t-get-jabs

YOUR OWN SOURCE:

Mr Ong, who co-chairs the task force, reiterated that seniors “have a high likelihood of falling critically ill once infected”. 

In Singapore, vaccinated people made up three-quarters of recent Covid-19 cases, but few fell ill | South China Morning Post (scmp.com)
https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/southeas ... ers-recent

Data showed that of the 1,096 cases in the last month, 44 per cent were fully vaccinated and 30 per cent partially vaccinated – but none were hospitalised
‘There is continuing evidence that vaccination helps to prevent serious disease when one gets infected,’ the health ministry said

Vaccines are protecting those people from advancing to a severe phase. That is what they are supposed to do.

This is how this shit works. Vaccines might be able to reduce severity of the disease, it might prevent the disease altogether and it might prevent transmission. Ideally, it will do all of those things.
When you have a high percentage of the population that is vaccinated. It is completely expected that many of those that get sick, are in fact vaccinated. However, assuming that the vaccine is working, you should also expect that the risk of progression to severe disease and/or death is much lower than if they were not vaccinated.
For instance. If you vaccinate 100% of the US population. If anyone gets sick, by DEFINITION, 100% of those that get sick will have been vaccinated. This of course does not mean that the vaccine caused the disease, obviously, this is nonsensical. The difference is, in a population that has 100% vaccination rate, even if 1% of the population gets sick, the mortality overall would be far lower than if 1% of the population of a 0% vaccinated cohort gets sick.

Listen. If you cannot even bother to read a news article, you shouldn't be playing at being a scientist.

Because some really rough napkin paper calculations or estimates show that, for those over the age of about 65 or 70 (which is where we would expect most of the hospitalisations), the proportion of unvaccinated persons in the hospital was lower than the proportion of unvaccinated persons in the society (in that age group).

Listen. When the article that YOU linked as evidence that vaccines don't work, is actually saying that vaccines do work you have a big credibility problem. You know, the rest of us can actually read.
This is what happens when you get all your information from 200 character long tweeter rants, you lose the ability to actually read and digest information.
Stop with the rough napkin paper calculations, they are useless. You are really suggesting that we are living the largest conspiracy in the world's history (worse than "fake landing on the moon", "worse than flat earth") in which all doctors in the world, and all media in the world got together to fake the pandemic and the vaccines, and you think you will disprove this imaginary conspiracy with some "napkin calculations"? Are you fucking mental?
There are two main options. Either your conspiracy theory is complete utter shit (I am willing to bet money on this) or there is some sort of world wide conspiracy by all doctors in the world (which is weird because they did not invite me to the conspiracy party) and you are certainly not going to prove this conspiracy with some "napkin calculations..." You realize the sort of global efforts such conspiracy will entail and you believe it would crumble by some "napkin calculation". Please.