[JohnRawls]

Hopefully this one will work.

https://newtube.app/user/GSHforLife/5cc600M

So what is your problem with vaccines? Be more specific with your words?

That it doesn't 100% prevent infection? Well no vaccine in history has done that. That it is less effective against mutations? This is not news for like 150 years now and it is well known that viruses that mutate fast are very hard to get rid off. The main idea behind the vaccines has always been to decrease deaths or severe cases which is does and there are more than enough data from just about anybody on the subject.

The vaccines are also not experimental by now both the old technology and MRNA technology. MRNA has been invented some time ago now and has been clinically tested before being deployed on smaller scales and on a billions scale with Covid. How can you call a technology that has been tested for decades then deployed to people in lesser numbers and then deployed to billions as experimental? By the way, new technology seems to be folds better against mutations compared to old technology. Only MRNA provide some form of protection against INFECTION from Omicron while most old tech vaccines are near 5-0% against infection. All of them help with severe cases and deaths though.

[XogGyux]

So so many hospitals declared Covid Deaths, whether they died From it or With I t. So so many died with other health issues and if they died after the testing, the hospital wrote: cause of death: Covid.

They would have fallen and bumped head, ended up in hospital and tested while in there and died, and death cert: Covid was cause. Never to mention the had injury. Hospitals have done so so much cheating and making mega money from govt.

Well, you obviously don't have a clue of how this works.
There is no conspiracy of putting "COVID DEATHS" to everyone that happens to die from a fall and happens to have a positive covid. That is just unjustified, ridiculous paranoia.
And to the extent that covid is responsible for the death... Patients make it to the ICU intubated, then the family wants to keep them alive for as long as possible even though we know that the prognosis is poor. After a week or two, they don't really have COVID anymore, but they have destroyed lungs and in many cases other organ failures (kidneys, strokes, heart problems, etc) so we might fight to keep them alive for a long time. The patient might finally die a month after covid... obviously, they no longer have covid... but their death is directly the result of covid.
This is not new to covid. If you have a heart attack today, and you go to the hospital, we do interventions such as stenting or CABG surgery and keep you in the ICU dealing with complication after complication for 1 month, and you finally are declared brain dead but your heart is still beating... your death certificate will likely also mention the MI as a contributor to your death because you wouldn't have been intubated in the ICU if it was not because of your heart. This is the same deal as with covid.
Claiming otherwise is either naive or deceitful.

[Rancid]

Well, you obviously don't have a clue of how this works.
There is no conspiracy of putting "COVID DEATHS" to everyone that happens to die from a fall and happens to have a positive covid. That is just unjustified, ridiculous paranoia.
And to the extent that covid is responsible for the death... Patients make it to the ICU intubated, then the family wants to keep them alive for as long as possible even though we know that the prognosis is poor. After a week or two, they don't really have COVID anymore, but they have destroyed lungs and in many cases other organ failures (kidneys, strokes, heart problems, etc) so we might fight to keep them alive for a long time. The patient might finally die a month after covid... obviously, they no longer have covid... but their death is directly the result of covid.
This is not new to covid. If you have a heart attack today, and you go to the hospital, we do interventions such as stenting or CABG surgery and keep you in the ICU dealing with complication after complication for 1 month, and you finally are declared brain dead but your heart is still beating... your death certificate will likely also mention the MI as a contributor to your death because you wouldn't have been intubated in the ICU if it was not because of your heart. This is the same deal as with covid.
Claiming otherwise is either naive or deceitful.

SHUTUP!

You and your COVID lies!!!

LIES!!


Anyway, I feel that people like @jaminhealth are basically grabbing at everything they can to claim the vaccine is a bad idea.

[Godstud]

[Igor Antunov]

96.5% fully vaccinated
Still wearing masks
Still can't travel
Still tracked by phone wherever we go
Still having boosters mandated, goalposts for 'fully vaxxd' always changing
Record numbers of infected and dying -among vaccinated, in same old at risk age groups (80+)


Summary: Old people disease being used by poltards to molest rest of population.

Yeah, /debate.

[jaminhealth]

Yeah, great failures those experimental jabs. My great town where I have lived for over 50 yrs is just about a ghosttown, closed businesses and yet 1000's jabbed in this Deep Blue State.

[jaminhealth]

The corruption in the White House is so Deep and Sickening:

https://www.statnews.com/2022/01/26/the ... rugmakers/

[Godstud]

Yes, over 880,000 killed by Covid-19 in the USA alone and the fools still drone on about it not being real, despite the overwhelming evidence.

@jaminhealth The vaccines are not experimental, and you saying so is just plain dumb.

Are the vaccines experimental?
The short answer to this question is no.
https://www.manitobavaccine.ca/answers/ ... erimental/

CORRECTED-Fact Check- COVID-19 vaccines are not experimental and they have not skipped trial stages 
https://www.reuters.com/article/factche ... SL1N2M70MW

Note, that neither source is American. I thought I'd make that clear since Americans/Australians aren't smart enough to even listen to their family doctor. Youtube has all the answers.

Note: The FDA is an American bureaucratic organization and they have no jurisdiction in the many countries that were using the vaccines prior to FDA approval(meaning it passed the paperwork and red tape).

[XogGyux]

You see those two large red tubes on the background? Those are the huge tubes that takes out all of this kid's blood and pass it through a machine to oxygenate it because this kid's lungs are trash and even with a ventilator it is not enough to keep his oxygen high enough. So doctors use this machine (ECMO, which stands for extracorporeal membrane oxygenation) to do that job.
And then we have some disgraceful people that would deny covid or pretend vaccines are the real problem.

[Igor Antunov]

That kid would have died with covid, not because of it. He's clearly terminally ill. A tale as old as the media meme surrounding covid.

[colliric]

That kid would have died with covid, not because of it. He's clearly terminally ill. A tale as old as the media meme surrounding covid.

I had to stop a Millenial nurse from throwing my terminally ill cancer suffering father straight on the floor once, and witnessed what these so called "heroes" can be capable of.

Rushed in a grabbed a hold of him just in time as he was screaming "They're gonna kill me!".

I knew complaining gets you nowhere because they look after their own. I'm not surprised they're willing to use their dying patients in propaganda videos.

The kid is terminally ill, but they're going to focus only on the Covid aspect. Just in time for the rollout of Child vaccines.

[colliric]

False equivalency arguement since most anti-vaccine
Covid protestors are specifically protesting vaccine mandates, big pharma and the mRNA technology on basis of it being brand new and having, in their opinion, iffy data. They're not protesting all doctors and medical sciences.

A very very small percentage are protesting "all vaccines".

Besides NO WEATHER REPORT IS IN FACT EVER 100% ACCURATE. Especially the 7-day forecast reporting which is only about 70-80% accurate and the 10-day forecast is roughly 50% accurate or less.

[Godstud]

Semantics, @colliric. The same ones opposing the mandates are opposing vaccinations. They're in the same camp of JACKASSES.

[XogGyux]

in their opinion, iffy data.

Well, their opinion is wrong. The data that we have on vaccines is vast and robust. Today if you do a search on NEJM, the most prestigious journal in the US, and you do a search for Nivolumab (a drug often used to treat cancers, a drug that has been on the market for 5+ years) you come up with 122 matches, you do that for BNT162b2 (pfizer vaccine) and you get 98 matches. The number of original articles, research are similar, despite the cancer drug having far more time in the market and being used for far more diseases than the covid vaccine. If we only widen the search for just the 2 mRNA vaccines in the US, Moderna and Pfizer, then there are more articles about the vaccines than for the cancer drug. If we widen the search for all vaccines, there is not even a comparison. There is a similar trend on The Lancet. The amount of high quality information, research that we have for these mRNA vaccines is vast, the amount of information that we have for COVID vaccines is daunting. So we have more information about these vaccines that most cancer treatments actually... where is the outrage and the incessant questioning about the use of chemotherapy or immunotherapy on cancer patients? Where are the idiots that want to have their small cell lung carcinoma treated with ivermectin?
You want to make it look like "healthy skepticism" but it is not. If you think the data that we have today is not enough, the same argument, if you take it to its conclusion, can be said about all of medicine. You couldn't be convinced that drug X works for cancer Y or that Drug W works for condition Z because ultimately, you don't trust the process. So bitching on the covid vaccines while taking your heart or blood pressure medication is just being a hypocrite.
These are people that have absolutely no training whatsoever. Many if not most that have no background on the science and the scientific process, making judgments on the effectiveness, safety and efficacy. Not just that, they are coming to the conclusion that for some reason the vaccines are bad, without any shred of evidence, an "opinion" that clearly clashes with the opinion of 99.999999% of anyone that can be called an expert.
Furthermore, even if you were to grant them "well maybe they are right on this one". The IDIOTS that believe this crap are also the ones that are more likely to believe and spread misinformation on other aspects of the disease such as "use ivermectin, use hydroxychloroquine, covid does not exist, covid is "just the flu" and many more idiocy. The anti-vaxxer/anti-covid movement is a mass-hysteria driven cult of ignorance.

They're not protesting all doctors and medical sciences.

Oh NO? What are they doing?

Besides NO WEATHER REPORT IS IN FACT EVER 100% ACCURATE. Especially the 7-day forecast reporting which is only about 70-80% accurate and the 10-day forecast is roughly 50% accurate or less.

Wow, are you creating an apology for the meme?

[noemon]

My views about vaccines and lockdown:

1) Covid Vaccines work, the statistics are clear, the UK had 300k cases per day and 3-4k deaths per day before the vaccine and after the vaccine it had the same 300k cases but only 100-200 deaths instead. This is definitive evidence that covid vaccines work as intended.
2) Lockdowns, I support lockdowns only when the epidemic reaches into such levels that staying open no longer makes sense. I believe that societies should lockdown as a last resort. During November & December in the UK we had a massive delta wave knocking out everybody but no lockdown. I was upset despite the fact that I am a business owner. When half your staff are knocked out and more than half your customers are gone, then what is the point of pretending to be open? The UK did not want to lockdown because it did not want to cover business disruption costs. But business was disrupted anyway in a mega fashion.
3) I find some countries tyrannical approach to vaccines and lockdowns as way too much to digest. Several countries across Europe and Australia, NZ are imposing extreme measures to their populations.

There is an argument to be made for countries with low uptake of the vaccine possibly requiring harsher measures to achieve herd-immunity, but there is a limit. Several countries now require 3 jabs compulsory otherwise you cannot go anywhere, sport, work, cinema, restaurant. I think that is total nonsense and should be called out as fascism. There is also a huge push to vaccinate kids below the age of 15.

My and my wife have had 2 jabs and have had Covid twice. I have not vaccinated my kids(13,11,8 y.o) and they had covid 3 times the past year. I do not believe that it should be a requirement to vaccinate them and thankfully in the UK it isn't. But it is across Europe however and my kids cannot attend international sport games unless they get 3 jabs. I do not like this.

[Patrickov]

Several countries now require 3 jabs compulsory otherwise you cannot go anywhere, sport, work, cinema, restaurant. I think that is total nonsense and should be called out as fascism.

I totally agree. In fact, this 3-jab shit is exactly what the Fascist Carrie Lam Gang (who are oppressing Hong Kong) is doing.

[wat0n]

I think minors should be vaccinated as soon as the trials suggest it's worth it. I otherwise agree with you @noemon, I'd also mask requirements (at least outside) to the list of annoying things that should stop once uptakes are high enough.

If more shots are necessary, then so be it. People vaccinate against the flu every year and I think that the flu vaccine will be polyvalent and be used for COVID as well, given that the population at risk is basically the same for both - but we're not there yet, it seems.

[Rancid]

I'm generally in the middle ground as well.

The vaccine is clearly effective. I've taken it and so have my kids, and I'm all for people taking the vaccine. However, I'm against mandates on the vaccine. I'm also against lockdowns now that the vaccine is out and we understand the virus better (I was ok with the early lockdowns in year 1). At this point, I say let her rip! I'm also tried of feeding the COVID industrial complex with the obsession around testing. Fuck testing. I've been sick 3 times in the last 2 years. I never bothered to get tested because 1) the illness was mild, 2) what difference will it make if I know i have covid or not when I'm going to stay home anyway? 3) I do not want to feed yet more money into all of these fly by night opportunistic testing companies that sprang up overnight by capitalists that have no experience in the medical industry to begin with. Fuck them. We are in the middle of the largest transfer of wealth in human history, and we don't seem to care about it in a day and age where people bitch about equity/inclusion.

The most the government should be doing is encouraging people to take the vaccine, but not require them to take it. All these mandates just make certain segments of people push back harder.

Last, if we are to live in a free society, we have to allow people to basically be irresponsible to some degree. I think it's ok to let people be "irresponsible" by not taking the vaccine. It's fine, let them take the risk if they want to.

[late]

I'm generally in the middle ground as well.

The vaccine is clearly effective. I've taken it and so have my kids, and I'm all for people taking the vaccine. However, I'm against mandates on the vaccine. I'm also against lockdowns now that the vaccine is out and we understand the virus better (I was ok with the early lockdowns in year 1). At this point, I say let her rip! I'm also tried of feeding the COVID industrial complex with the obsession around testing. Fuck testing. I've been sick 3 times in the last 2 years. I never bothered to get tested because 1) the illness was mild, 2) what difference will it make if I know i have covid or not when I'm going to stay home anyway? 3) I do not want to feed yet more money into all of these fly by night opportunistic testing companies that sprang up overnight by capitalists that have no experience in the medical industry to begin with. Fuck them. We are in the middle of the largest transfer of wealth in human history, and we don't seem to care about it in a day and age where people bitch about equity/inclusion.

The most the government should be doing is encouraging people to take the vaccine, but not require them to take it. All these mandates just make certain segments of people push back harder.

Last, if we are to live in a free society, we have to allow people to basically be irresponsible to some degree. I think it's ok to let people be "irresponsible" by not taking the vaccine. It's fine, let them take the risk if they want to.

That's not middle ground.

Getting control of this means mandates and testing.

Look at Singapore for how effective testing can be. Because we suck, we needed both.

[noemon]

We do a lot of testing here as a matter of habit now.

We have to test the kids every time they cough or feel unwell. We then have to test ourselves also in the idea that positive tests count for natural immunity certificates.