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#15066826
@Potemkin

Potemkin wrote:There are actual reasons Henry Kissinger got the Nobel Peace Prize too. That doesn't make it any less absurd.

All of these prizes are awarded, quite often, for the most petty of political reasons. Singling out one as being particularly venal is pointless.


That's how it on the battlefield too. You will see a lot of tremendous courage go unrecognized and you will see people who the commanding officer or NCO likes get valorous awards they might not have really earned. Popularity also plays a role in valor awards. You learn on the battlefield that tremendous courage and uncommon valor are a common thing but that doesn't mean it gets recognized. You learn that most often, true heroism goes unrecognized.
#15066829
@Potemkin

Here is an article that discusses this. A quote from the article entitled "The Other Stolen Valor: Unrecognized Heroism in Our Recent Wars:"

David Barno and Nora Bensahel of War on the Rocks wrote:What explains this trend? One reason is undoubtedly the increased professionalism of the force. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have been fought by an all-volunteer force, whereas all U.S. wars before 1973 were fought largely by conscripts. The U.S. armed forces now consist of long-serving professionals leading a select group of volunteers. Training and standards are arguably more demanding today than at any other point in America’s wartime history. That professionalism has many advantages, but it can also lead to higher expectations among those that serve. Battlefield actions that might have stood out as valorous or heroic in previous conflicts may now be seen as an expected part of combat performance. The expectations of what constitutes duty may have subtly expanded in a wholly professional force. Perversely, civilian society now routinely characterizes every man and woman serving in uniform as a hero. This unfortunate propensity both devalues the term and further muddles our understanding of what constitutes true heroism.

Second, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have involved fewer close-combat engagements. U.S. adversaries have successfully battled American forces asymmetrically, through rocket and mortar attacks, insider attacks, and suicide bombings. Improvised explosive devices (IEDs) have been the signature weapon of these wars, and they are usually detonated remotely and are rarely followed by a firefight. As a result, fewer U.S. troops may have engaged the enemy in close combat, and been in a position to take heroic actions other than rescuing wounded survivors.

Yet the third, and perhaps most important, reason that there have been so few awards for heroism in the recent wars has little to do with battlefield performance or the shifting character of combat. Instead, it seems to be an overreaction to the large number of valor awards given during the Vietnam War. According to one source, the Army handed out almost 1.3 million awards for bravery in Vietnam, a number that is roughly the same as the total number of soldiers who served there. Those numbers seemed unconscionably high to many who stayed in the military after the war, especially when compared to the number of bravery awards given during World War II (1.8 million) and the Korean War (50,000).


https://warontherocks.com/2019/05/the-o ... cent-wars/

Believe me Potemkin, I have seen some serious heroism on the battlefield that I believe rated at least a Bronze Star with Valor device, maybe even a Silver Star that only got awarded an Army Commendation with V device and I think some of it had to do with professional jealousy on the part of those who had the power to give those awards that they were not the ones on the mission. I guess some felt that the boss shouldn't be outshined. Still, such heroism needs to be recognized properly. But at the end of the day, what's most important is that people came home alive who otherwise would not have and that's the best and most important award and the only award that really matters. Plus I think those who probably should be awarded some valor awards don't want to be in the spotlight and know what they did and don't complain or bring it to the attention to anybody. Not to mention awards can be highly politically charged and nobody wants to get caught up in all that mess.
User avatar
By Big Steve-2
#15066907
Godstud wrote:So answer the question: What did Limbaugh get an award for? Not one of you seems capable of answering the the simple question. Even a BS answer is better than simply referring to Obama, or Hillary, to evade the question.

Real answer? You don't have a fucking clue! :knife:


So what?

Obviously someone felt there was a reason to bestow the award on him, and that's all that matters.

What's so difficult to understand about that? You guys are acting as though, since no one on this forum has identified a reason, he shouldn't have been awarded it.

That's just ridiculous.
User avatar
By Godstud
#15066928
No, what is evident is even you Trump supporters don't know why Limbaugh got an award, and that's just stupid and hilarious, at the same time. :lol:
User avatar
By Big Steve-2
#15066941
Godstud wrote:No, what is evident is even you Trump supporters don't know why Limbaugh got an award, and that's just stupid and hilarious, at the same time. :lol:


So, if someone supports Trump that person is supposed to have a comprehensive understanding of every decision made by Trump?

Talk about stupid and hilarious.

It seems the only people who are getting their panties in a wad over this are Democrats.

I don't know why Limbaugh got it. I don't care why he got it. The reason he got it probably will never have any bearing on me at all, ever.

Nor you.

So why worry about it?
By Pants-of-dog
#15066943
If you are not interested in the discussion, feel free to leave the thread.

I think this says a lot about how Trump supports racism and sexism in order to galvanise his base of supporters. They seem to like such bigotry.
User avatar
By Rancid
#15066945
The Mariner wrote:So why worry about it?


On this one, I generally agree with BigSteve... I mean The Mariner ;).

Complaining about this award is a mole hill compared to the other shit Trump is doing or has done.

This attitude towards Trump is one of the great failings of American liberals. The attitude being that 100% of what Trump does is insidious and will destroy the fabric of America. No one on this planet s 100% evil. Not even trump.

They point to every little thing Trump does as some sort of massive transgression. Yelling and screaming about everything. It becomes noise and diverts attention away from the real stupid shit Trump is doing. It allows American conservatives to point to these mole hill issues as something that should be disregarded (rightfully so), but then they will use it as ammo to extend that attitude of disregard to the shit that really does matter.

My point is, liberals and the segment of the media that doesn't like Trump are their own worst enemy.

Basically, liberals need to get better at picking their battles.
Last edited by Rancid on 13 Feb 2020 15:36, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
By Big Steve-2
#15066946
Pants-of-dog wrote:If you are not interested in the discussion, feel free to leave the thread.

I think this says a lot about how Trump supports racism and sexism in order to galvanise his base of supporters. They seem to like such bigotry.


Okay, he got it for pissing off liberals with facts for the last 31 years.

That's why Trump gave it to him.
By late
#15066956
The Mariner wrote:
Okay, he got it for pissing off liberals with facts for the last 31 years.

That's why Trump gave it to him.



The medal didn't used to be for aholes...

Btw, he ragged on Republicans more than Dems until he had his sleepover at the White House.
By Pants-of-dog
#15066987
The Mariner wrote:Okay, he got it for pissing off liberals with facts for the last 31 years.

That's why Trump gave it to him.


He said smoking was harmless.

Do you think that is a fact?
By late
#15066998
Pants-of-dog wrote:
He said smoking was harmless.

Do you think that is a fact?



Victor Khomenko, the brilliant owner and chief engineer at Balanced Audio Technologies was like a lot of Russian emigrees. They came from a perceived Left, and went as far as they could in the opposite direction.

While he's not out and out rich, he's a very long ways from poor. His stuff sells for serious coin.

He was a fan of Rush. And Rush stated pushing these air mattresses and of course Victor got one, and was mightily unimpressed. He eased off Rush after that.

It was a real pleasure talking with him. We disagreed about most everything, but he was whip smart and fun to argue with.

https://balanced.com/
User avatar
By Big Steve-2
#15067016
Pants-of-dog wrote:He said smoking was harmless.

Do you think that is a fact?


That has nothing to do with why he got the award.

Your question was asked and answered.
By Pants-of-dog
#15067026
The Mariner wrote:That has nothing to do with why he got the award.

Your question was asked and answered.


Now we are checking to see if your answer is correct.

If Limbaugh was given the award for "pissing off liberals" with facts, then we can see if Limbaugh stated facts or not.

And if he often lied, then the answer you gave is wrong.

Now, is it a fact or a lie when someone says that smoking is harmless?
User avatar
By Big Steve-2
#15067059
Pants-of-dog wrote:Now we are checking to see if your answer is correct.

If Limbaugh was given the award for "pissing off liberals" with facts, then we can see if Limbaugh stated facts or not.

And if he often lied, then the answer you gave is wrong.

Now, is it a fact or a lie when someone says that smoking is harmless?


Goodnight.

Your childish manner is something I'm not going to waste my time on.

He was given the award. I don't know why he got it, nor do I care. My life will continue as it would if he never got it. It has no effect on me.

It's sad that it seems to have had such an effect on yours.
By Pants-of-dog
#15067077
So we agree that he was not making a factual claim, but instead was making a misleading claim.

Here is his Politifact report card:
https://www.politifact.com/personalities/rush-limbaugh/

    True 0% 0 Checks
    Mostly True 4% 2 Checks
    Half True 11% 5 Checks
    Mostly False 23% 10 Checks
    False 35% 15 Checks
    Pants on Fire 23% 10 Checks

So, he lied more often than not.

I think we can say that he was not “pissing off liberals” with facts.

He was “pissing off liberals” with lies.

And he got an award for it.

The US is hilarious.
User avatar
By Big Steve-2
#15067085
Pants-of-dog wrote:So we agree that he was not making a factual claim, but instead was making a misleading claim.

Here is his Politifact report card:
https://www.politifact.com/personalities/rush-limbaugh/

    True 0% 0 Checks
    Mostly True 4% 2 Checks
    Half True 11% 5 Checks
    Mostly False 23% 10 Checks
    False 35% 15 Checks
    Pants on Fire 23% 10 Checks

So, he lied more often than not.

I think we can say that he was not “pissing off liberals” with facts.

He was “pissing off liberals” with lies.

And he got an award for it.

The US is hilarious.


Regardless, he was pissing off liberals. That's what matters.

I have no idea why he got it. I don't care. I honestly don't know anyone who does.

Why is it so important to you to determine what he got it for? You're not even an American.
By Pants-of-dog
#15067087
The Mariner wrote:Regardless, he was pissing off liberals. That's what matters.


Yes, that is true.

For many US conservatives, “pissing off liberals” is the goal. Not good policies nor good faith arguments, not logic, not evidence.

Just making people angry. That is all Limbaugh did.
User avatar
By Wellsy
#15067106
Rancid wrote:On this one, I generally agree with BigSteve... I mean The Mariner ;).

Complaining about this award is a mole hill compared to the other shit Trump is doing or has done.

This attitude towards Trump is one of the great failings of American liberals. The attitude being that 100% of what Trump does is insidious and will destroy the fabric of America. No one on this planet s 100% evil. Not even trump.

They point to every little thing Trump does as some sort of massive transgression. Yelling and screaming about everything. It becomes noise and diverts attention away from the real stupid shit Trump is doing. It allows American conservatives to point to these mole hill issues as something that should be disregarded (rightfully so), but then they will use it as ammo to extend that attitude of disregard to the shit that really does matter.

My point is, liberals and the segment of the media that doesn't like Trump are their own worst enemy.

Basically, liberals need to get better at picking their battles.

I think this is on point. Trump is hardly great enough a person to wreck the sort of havoc others have in history. Because to great misdeeds takes a lot of work, need big ideas/dreams, skills and a will to put it in motion. The president couldn’t pull off something as massive as a Stalin. And in fact the shit storm over everything Trump does seems to detract from the international stage, where China has made some big moves in recent years and the best he could do is push a trade war which had little to no actual consequence for China. Shit is scary when China is reestablishing itself as the economic center of the world.
Who gives a fuck about Trump except to the extent that his insular nature is a massive detriment to the US domestically and its allies on the international stage in navigating modern politics
User avatar
By Big Steve-2
#15067167
Pants-of-dog wrote:Yes, that is true.

For many US conservatives, “pissing off liberals” is the goal. Not good policies nor good faith arguments, not logic, not evidence.

Just making people angry. That is all Limbaugh did.


You still didn't answer the question as to why you care.

Hell, we're Americans and I don't know anyone who cares.
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