Haiti Requests U.S. Troops - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15181579
Rancid is onto something. It's nuts how different the two countries are, despite being on the same island. I have an idea exactly why but it wouldn't be politically correct to mention in current year. The power imbalance is just too great, of cause Dominic the Chad is taking advantage of such pitiful dysfunctional weakness next door.
#15181581
Igor Antunov wrote:Rancid is onto something. It's nuts how different the two countries are, despite being on the same island. I have an idea exactly why but it wouldn't be politically correct to mention in current year. The power imbalance is just too great, of cause Dominic the Chad is taking advantage of such pitiful dysfunctional weakness next door.

Back in the early 19th century, the boot was on the other foot, @Igor Antunov.
#15181583
Back in the early 19th century, the boot was on the other foot, @Igor Antunov.


Eh not really.

Image


Countries in their classical years aren't relevant in this discussion. Back 600 years ago The Kingdom of Mali was rich and powerful because it had gold and sheer numbers. Yeah ok. That's nice. But we in the post industrial era now son. If you can't handle the math and material science, you gonna fall behind. Haiti is stagnating as expected.
#15181587
Igor Antunov wrote:Eh not really.

Image


Yes, really. The unification of Hispaniola

Countries in their classical years aren't relevant in this discussion. Back 600 years ago The Kingdom of Mali was rich and powerful because it had gold and sheer numbers. Yeah ok. That's nice. But we in the post industrial era now son. If you can't handle the math and material science, you gonna fall behind. Haiti is stagnating as expected.

Haiti didn't fall behind because of lack of science education, Igor. :roll:
#15181590
Igor Antunov wrote:No I didn't say that. It stayed back because of lack of brain power promoting lack of leadership and professionals. After a century or three it eventually becomes disingenuous to blame consistent failure on circumstance.

You mean just like Serbia, Igor? Lol.
#15181591
LA TRINITARIA!

My post about pinning it on the DR was really a joke. The relationship between the two nations is more complex than most white westerners care to understand (white people like to incorrectly distill it down to racism because they can't understand it any other way).

It is in the interest of the DR to have a stable Haiti for various reasons. The DR sees massive amounts of illegal immigration from Haiti. The DR also accepts the most Haitian refugees than any other nation on the planet (even more than the US). This further exacerbates the tension between the two nations. Illegal immigration from Haiti is a hot topic in Dominican politics. Much like illegal immigration from Mexico and Central America into the US.

Doubtful the DR had much to do with it. They don't like the idea of unrest and civil wars next door. This would only create more illegal immigration as well as a potential refugee crisis. The DR is one of the most dynamic economies in Latin America and has seen the most growth than any of the other Latin countries over the last 20-30 years. They don't want that shit getting fucked up with a crisis next door.

To @Potemkin's point. He is correct in pointing out that the boot was on the other foot. This fact has had strong implications on the relations between the two nations to this day. Understanding this, helps explain a lot as to why the rocky relationship isn't just simply racism as so many dumbshit Americans like to think, the issues and history run deeper than that.

I always tell people that independence day in pretty much all other Latin countries is independence from Spain. In the DR, independence day is independence from Haiti (side note, the DR has two independence days from SPain, but that is not what is celebrated in the country).
#15181595
Potemkin wrote:You mean just like Serbia, Igor? Lol.


Hardly, Serbia has had its ups and downs (usually the result of foreign actors owing to its small demographic size) but it is on an upward trajectory right now. It has the human capital required to be an advanced economy. It was prior to the yugoslav wars, it can be again a net contributor to humanity. Haiti...not so much. The next Tesla or Pupin coming from Haiti? Press X to doubt. Big dicks AND big brains required. Big Dicks ain't enough bro.
#15181596
Igor Antunov wrote:Hardly, Serbia has had its ups and downs (usually the result of foreign actors owing to it's small demographic size) but it is on an upward trajectory right now. It has the human capital required to be an advanced economy. It was prior to the yugoslav wars, it can be again. Haiti...not so much.

Haiti was far wealthier than the Dominican Republic until the French sent a fleet of warships to Haiti in the 1820s to extort 'compensation' for all the slaves they had 'stolen' from their French masters during their Revolution. It was so much money that Haiti only managed to pay the last instalment in the 1950s.
#15181598
Potemkin wrote:Haiti was far wealthier than the Dominican Republic until the French sent a fleet of warships to Haiti in the 1820s to extort 'compensation' for all the slaves they had 'stolen' from their French masters during their Revolution. It was so much money that Haiti only managed to pay the last instalment in the 1950s.


There's transitory wealth then there's human capital. North Korea is not 'wealthy', but it is by no means a weak disorganized state relative to the south. Wealth can be built up and lost. But human capital is more constant. Saudi Arabia is 'wealthy' but it is absolutely incapable of exercising its sovereignty because 80% of its basic workforce and 90% of its educated workforce and 100% of its weaponry and training is not native. I hope this has been an enlightening experience for you.
#15181623
Igor Antunov wrote:Rancid is onto something. It's nuts how different the two countries are, despite being on the same island. I have an idea exactly why but it wouldn't be politically correct to mention in current year.

French people suck? lol
#15181698
The assassination was planned in the Dominican Republic though .
On Thursday, Haiti's National Police (PNH) Director Leon Charles confirmed that the assassination of President Jovenel Moise was planned in the Dominican Republic. The official also announced the arrest of three members of the presidential security detail and the chief bodyguard. They were gathered in a hotel in Santo Domingo City. Around the table are the intellectual authors, a technical recruitment group, and a fundraising group," Charles said as he presented a photograph of those involved in planning the assassination.

Among the plotters featured in the image are Christian Sanon, Walter Veintemilla, James Solages, former Senator John Joseph, and the CTU Security head Antonio Intriago. Once again, the PNH director confirmed that most of the mercenaries had Colombian nationality and had received military training.

“They are former Colombian special force operatives. They are experts, criminals. This was a well-planned attack, ”Charles said, as reported by the New York Post. On Thursday, the Pentagon confirmed that the U.S. Military had trained some of the Colombian mercenaries. Colombia's President Ivan Duque also acknowledged that the entire group of Colombian ex-military personnel detained in Haiti participated in the assassination of the Moise.

"Regardless of the level of knowledge, what is evident is that the whole group participated in the assassination. Of course, we are collaborating with the Haitian authorities," Duque said, adding that the Colombian police are investigating in Haiti how the Colombian ex-military were recruited for the assassination and who did it.

The U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) is also involved in the murder investigations at the site. On Thursday afternoon, the FBI was at the Moise residence to collect evidence.
https://www.telesurenglish.net/news/Moise-Assassination-Was-Planned-in-the-Dominican-Republic-20210716-0003.html
The assassination of Haitian President Jovenel Moise by a group of armed mercenaries was planned in the Dominican Republic, according to the Haitian police chief.

A photograph circulating on social media identifies two suspects – both subsequently arrested – meeting with former Haitian opposition senator Joel John Joseph, wanted by police.

According to the director of the Haitian national police, Léon Charles, the photo was taken while the trio were preparing the assassination of Moise in the Dominican Republic, neighboring Haiti.

“They met at a hotel in Santo Domingo,” Charles told reporters. “Around the table are the architects of the plot, a technical recruiting team and a financial group.

The investigation into the death of the Haitian president, killed by a well-armed commando team in his private residence on July 7, remains shrouded in mystery.

“Some of the people in the photo have already been apprehended, such as Dr Christian Enmanuel Sanon and James Solages,” added Charles.

Police accuse Solages – one of two Haitian-Americans implicated in the murder – of coordinating with Venezuelan security firm CTU, whose leader is visible in the photo and which has reportedly traveled to Haiti several times to plan the attack.

Florida-based financial services firm Worldwide Capital Lending Group funded the attack, Charles said, adding that his boss Walter Veintemilla also appears with plotters.

Police say many Colombian commandos who raided Moise’s home in Port-au-Prince arrived in Haiti on June 6, about a month before the attack. Four attackers were already present in the country.

“(The mercenaries) went through the Dominican Republic,” said Charles, whose team tracked down a credit card that was allegedly used to purchase their plane tickets.

Three Colombian mercenaries were killed and 18 arrested by Haitian police.

“They are former members of the Colombian special forces,” said the Haitian police chief. “They are experts, criminals. It was a well-planned attack. “

Four members of the assassinated president’s security services, including the presidential palace security chief, have been placed in solitary confinement by the country’s inspector general as investigations examine internal collusion
https://www.fr24news.com/a/2021/07/assassination-of-the-president-planned-in-the-dominican-republic.html And also , the private jet plane that was used , is owned by a Dominican politician .
The company that owns the private jet registration HI-949 in which the Colombian mercenaries who assassinated Haitian president, Jovenel Moïse, traveled on July 7, would be linked to the Dominican politician Gonzalo Castillo, former candidate for the Presidency for the Dominican Liberation Party (PLD).

According to the investigation published by the Colombian newspaper “El Tiempo,” ownership of the jet is one of the leads handled by the FBI, since the security company that hired the Colombian mercenaries is based in Miami.

A photograph published by “El Tiempo” shows the Haitian doctor Christian Emmanuel Sanon, considered the “brain” behind the assassination, on the steps of the plane, owned by the company Helidosa S.A.
https://dominicantoday.com/dr/local/2021/07/19/dominican-politico-owns-jet-used-by-haiti-assassination-suspects/
#15181702
Deutschmania wrote:The assassination was planned in the Dominican Republic though .


Oh shit... :eek: :eek: :eek:

Seriously though, just because the planning was done in the DR, doesn't mean this was a conspiracy by the government of the DR, or any specific entity based in the DR. Further it looks like that politician does not own the jet. He is an owner of the company that owns the jet.

Not that I'm trying to defend the DR, but it's funny how we can get wild with the speculation based on the smallest of things, like DEA hat, or license plates.... or airplane. As a further point, what if the attackers used a rental car to get around, does the implicate the rental car company as a conspirator? Probably not...

None the less, I think they should send in the DR to investigate. Make sure loose ends are taken care of... I mean make sure the investigation has the desired result... i mean the correct result... the correct result.
#15181707
@Rancid

Well based on what U.S. generals have been saying on the news, it doesn't appear they recommend granting any request of U.S. troops. It seems the most logical thing is to send civilian investigators and advisors to assist Haiti but I see no reason or need to send soldiers to assist Haiti as that is simply not in the scope of the armed forces. Any sort of unrest in my view should be handled by the Haitian government. If they need assistance training their armed forces or being adequately prepared to secure their infrastructure or handle unrest, I can see sending them financial assistance that is tailored towards a more civilian law enforcement role of securing their infrastructure and handling unrest as far as assisting the Haitian government. However, after getting the training and financial resources they need, it should be left to the Haitian government to do it's job for it's people while also addressing the needs of it's people.
#15181723
Rancid wrote:Oh shit... :eek: :eek: :eek:

Seriously though, just because the planning was done in the DR, doesn't mean this was a conspiracy by the government of the DR, or any specific entity based in the DR. Further it looks like that politician does not own the jet. He is an owner of the company that owns the jet.

Not that I'm trying to defend the DR, but it's funny how we can get wild with the speculation based on the smallest of things, like DEA hat, or license plates.... or airplane. As a further point, what if the attackers used a rental car to get around, does the implicate the rental car company as a conspirator? Probably not...

None the less, I think they should send in the DR to investigate. Make sure loose ends are taken care of... I mean make sure the investigation has the desired result... i mean the correct result... the correct result.
Be as it may , the Dominican Republic , along with the United States , has had a history of funding , and training paramilitaries in Haiti , as documented here in this book . https://monthlyreview.org/product/paramilitarism_and_the_assault_on_democracy_in_haiti/ , https://jebsprague.blogspot.com/2013/01/paramilitarism-in-haiti-photo-montage.html And it is believed by some that paramilitaries might have been behind the assassination .
During the early morning of July 7, hours before first light, nine SUVs arrived at the home of Haitian president Jovenel Moïse outside of Port-au-Prince. Moïse had been clinging to the presidency since February, sparking weekly demonstrations by thousands of Haitians who accused him of corruption — especially in relation to Petrocaribe, a program through which Venezuela provided Haiti with billions of dollars’ worth of oil and funding meant to support development.

What months of popular protests had not accomplished, a small band of suspected mercenaries carried out in minutes. Claiming to be agents with the US Drug Enforcement Agency (the DEA, which maintains a presence in Haiti to assist with counter-narcotics operations), the group gained entry to the home and killed the president.

Moïse’s assassination comes amid increasingly revolutionary fervor in Haiti. The popular demonstrations against corruption, which were supported by bourgeois opponents of the former president, have more recently given way to openly radical forces, such as those around Jimmy " Barbeque " Cherzier. A former cop turned vigilante leader, Cherizier has sought to unite Haiti’s many armed community defense groups, and even criminal gangs, under the banner of the “Revolutionary Forces of the G-9 Family and Allies” in order to topple the state altogether. His base is in Haiti’s shantytowns, where millions of former peasants now comprise a “lumpenproletariat” of unemployed workers.

While the people behind Moïse’s assassination remain unknown, Haiti Liberté‘s Kim Ives tells Jacobin that he believes the plot may be an attempt to turn back the revolutionary tide — and maybe even bring in US Marines. Jacobin contributor Arvind Dilawar spoke with Ives about the assassination, its potential backers, and the possibility of a US military intervention. Their conversation has been edited for clarity and brevity...
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2021/07/haiti-assassination-president-moise-petrocaribe
#15181726
Deutschmania wrote: Be as it may , the Dominican Republic , along with the United States , has had a history of funding , and training paramilitaries in Haiti , as documented here in this book . https://monthlyreview.org/product/paramilitarism_and_the_assault_on_democracy_in_haiti/ , https://jebsprague.blogspot.com/2013/01/paramilitarism-in-haiti-photo-montage.html And it is believed by some that paramilitaries might have been behind the assassination . https://www.jacobinmag.com/2021/07/haiti-assassination-president-moise-petrocaribe


What? naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhh

Look over there! The Colombia sent some people to Haiti!
#15181813
Igor Antunov wrote:Look at the ethnic composition of the respective states on the island. Then you see why Haiti begins to resemble a sub-saharan african or south indian state. Just pointing out the obvious don't shoot the messenger.




I suppose, or it is easily obvious Haïti has a higher light absorption coefficient than Dominican Republic. The question then becomes whether high light absorption coefficients are indicators of natural inabilities to develop, or if such high absorption coefficients have historically been penalised and ostracised by low light absorbents. For some strange reasons humans have always valued lower light absorption coefficients over high light absorption coefficients. It would be marginally acceptable if it was only a simple matter of preference. Sadly it also entailed violent rejection and suppression of high light absorbents, openly, deliberately, at times unconsciously. Maybe Haïti is in the pits as a result of deeper historical injustices.

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