[B0ycey]

@B0ycey

You are never going to kill all the Taliban, especially when they have a safe haven in Pakistan and are financially and militarily supported by Pakistan. Even if you win all the battles against the Taliban, they'll still be there causing trouble somewhere. We certainly aren't going to commit genocide either just for the sake of eliminating all possible resistance nor are we going to over-extend ourselves and invade Pakistan just to get the Taliban.

I thought Pakistan was part of the alliance against terror?

In essence I don't disagree with your post, the problem is the Taliban were prepared to die for their cause and as such you had to either commit genocide and also kill and awful lot of Americans in a ground offensive in doing so doing so or lose. This should have been obvious back in 2001. Now the question we should have asked ourselves was 'was it worth it?' It certainly hasn't been since 2011 when you had killed Bin Laden anyway. What do you consider the objective has been for you for the past ten years anyway?

[Politics_Observer]

*delete*

[Politics_Observer]

@B0ycey

I thought Pakistan was part of the alliance against terror?

YEAH RIGHT! The Pakistanis were double dealing us during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan by giving our weapons and arms to extremists that were brainwashed in madrases in Pakistan while purposely giving shitty arms to Afghans who would look out for the best interest of Afghanistan that could not be controlled by Pakistan.

We weren't aware back in the 1980s that the Pakistanis were doing this. Later on, during our occupation of Afghanistan, the Pakistanis were double dealing us again, taking our money while hiding Bin Laden and trying to protect him. AND funding the Taliban who we were fighting in Afghanistan. They were NOT part of any so called "alliance" in the war on terror. They were just double dealing us and taking our money. Our government eventually became wise to this and didn't trust Pakistan. Hence, why we conducted the Bin Laden raid covertly while not telling Pakistan.

We probably continued to give money to Pakistan because they let us use some of their facilities but they were not real allies. Also, we probably wanted them to go after some of the extremists in Pakistan too but I am not sure if they ever really were serious about eradicating those extremists on their own territory. They certainly wanted to support the Taliban though with money and arms so that the Taliban could take over Afghanistan once our forces left and ensure Afghanistan wasn't hostile to Pakistan.

This would thus ensure Pakistan doesn't face a two front threat, one from India (which Pakistan and India are currently enemies) and one from Afghanistan both at the same time. Another reason why we probably kept giving money to Pakistan was logistics reasons because to get supplies to our troops, those supplies went through Pakistan to Afghanistan.

In essence I don't disagree with your post, the problem is the Taliban were prepared to die for their cause and as such you had to either commit genocide and also kill and awful lot of Americans in a ground offensive in doing so doing so or lose. This should have been obvious back in 2001. Now the question we should have asked ourselves was it worth it? It certainly hasn't been since 2011 when you had killed Bin Laden anyway. What do you consider the objective has been for you for the past ten years anyway?

Main reason why stayed in Afghanistan after 2011 was we wanted to at least try and give the Afghan government at least a chance to stand on it's own feet to where they could hopefully stay in power and govern Afghanistan and prevent the return to extremist Taliban rule.

There are many Afghans who do not like the Taliban. But the Taliban gets plenty of money and support from Pakistan who doesn't want to see an Afghan government come to power that might be unfriendly to Pakistan due to the fact they are facing their rival India.

[Politics_Observer]

@Potemkin @B0ycey @JohnRawls

I wanted to use this song written by a Soviet Afghan war veteran to pay tribute to my fellow American soldiers who didn't back from Afghanistan. The video is below. Pictured below the video are the soldiers killed in action in my unit that I served with.

[B0ycey]

@Potemkin @B0ycey @JohnRawls

I wanted to use this song written by a Soviet Afghan war veteran to pay tribute to my fellow American soldiers who didn't back from Afghanistan. The video is below. Pictured below the video are the soldiers killed in action in my unit that I served with.

Of course I support those who have lost their lives not just in America but the UK (and other nations). But we should be honest with ourselves that we failed in Afghanistan PO and these lives will be ultimately lost for nothing. That isn't a statement against the people who died, but those who sent us to war initially.

[Politics_Observer]

@B0ycey

I will never accept the notion that the lives of my fellow soldiers died for nothing. They died so that others like myself and my fellow Americans can live. They gave their lives unselfishly.

[B0ycey]

@B0ycey

I will never accept the notion that the lives of my fellow soldiers died for nothing. They died so that others like myself and my fellow Americans can live.

I wouldn't expect anything less from you PO. However I consider those lives died for a purpose and that purpose was never met. It isn't likely we will agree and given your military connections I will not try and convince you on a personal matter.

[Politics_Observer]

@B0ycey

It's OK to disagree. It's your right to do so. I won't take it personally. It's the part of the job that one might be required to die in the military profession. In the UK and the US, we live in a free society. By all means, feel free to disagree.

[Rugoz]

In other words, this was a war which ultimately you could not win.

The US could have stayed in Afghanistan forever, for $45bn a year. Problem is, it's kind of worthless as a training ground for the upcoming confrontation with China.

[Torus34]

I am surprised we have had few comments on PoFo about this since Bidens announcement that he was speeding up withdrawal given this is the biggest news going on right now. But your post stands out given you have written an outcome or cause which clearly wasn't met. If the goal was to replace tribal structures with democracy in Afghanistan, America lost the war as the tribes are regaining territory in Afghanistan and democracy there is a joke. That isn't to say I don't agree with the action of getting out of Afghanistan (I was always against the war), but we are leaving Afghanistan is a worse state than what it was before we entered and this is all happening during a time the Taliban is gaining ground. The Taliban may even win the civil war meaning we really would have achieved nothing. So I say let's cut out the BS. We could not do anything for Afghanistan given they were never interested in our ideals. Those that do have them are now left to fight for themselves and they are out numbered by the Taliban. In other words we cannot afford to fight anymore so we are out and what targets we had don't matter now given their is no profits left there. That is the truth of the matter and now we must learn to stay out of these types of wars in the future so we don't repeat this mistake ever again.

Hi, BOycey!

I am still trying to sort out the reasons we stayed in Afghanistan. We ostensibly went into there militarily in response to the 9/11 attack on the United States of America by a group composed almost exclusively of Saudi's. We said that Afghanistan was a safe haven for the terrorists who attacked us. That doesn't explain our continuance in that misfortuned nation.

We will have a hood measure of whether Afghanistan is a nation worth the 20 years we spent there when Kabul comes under attack by the Taliban.

Regards, stay safe 'n well.

[Igor Antunov]

Taliban enter Afghanistan's 2nd biggest city, Kandahar city
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/wor ... 309324.cms

Article does its best to downplay this offensive, implying the puppet government has impetus to retake areas, but it's over. Retreat to Kabul, Turtle there and ready the helicopters.

[QatzelOk]

I'm really worried that the Taliban might try to "cut out" the CIA from the world's heroin trade.

How can the West protect this worthwhile drug scam?

What can moral, upright-thinking people do to ensure that that heroin continues to make money for the terror organizations (like the CIA) that help giant corporations control the world and kill all its animals?


Let's never forget the importance of "the poppy" in heroin production!

[Igor Antunov]

Gay men will be crushed to death by pushing a wall onto them as part of nationwide return to Sharia law in Afghanistan under the Taliban, one of the Islamist group's judges reveals

Gul Rahim, 38, Taliban judge, has given a glimpse of life under the Islamist group
1. Spoke matter-of-factly about chopping off the hands and legs of thieves
2. Said gays should be stoned to death or killed by having a wall toppled on them
3. Women can leave the house, he insisted, though have to get a permit first

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... istan.html

1) Agreed, we should do it worldwide
2) Disagree. This is cruel. Just leave the gays alone.
3) Agreed, women need to be controlled and are incapable of preservational politics. That demographic is too easy to manipulate via social pressure and is responsible for voting in ever more degenerate neoliberals that are destroying the west. Important lessons have been learned.

Damn, net positive. Taliban continues to impress

[Igor Antunov]

British Defence Minister says UK will work with Taliban should they come to power
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/britis ... 021-07-13/

[Skynet]

A senior Taliban said:" We learned our lessons, Osama bin Laden was not 20 years of fighting worth."

They know well 2nd time the US is going to stay for ever.

[Igor Antunov]

Yes the US sure taught them a lesson, totally a US victory.

[colliric]

A senior Taliban said:" We learned our lessons, Osama bin Laden was not 20 years of fighting worth."

They know well 2nd time the US is going to stay for ever.

The US is never going back. This might be the beginning of the end of US interventions in the middle east. It's the end of the stupid useless destructive War on Terror.

[Skynet]

The US is never going back. This might be the beginning of the end of US interventions in the middle east. It's the end of the stupid useless destructive War on Terror.

The most successfull terorrist organisation was the Serbian Black Hand / Crna Ruka, they caused WW1. I read some of their writings they wanted not to defeat the Austro-Hungarian Empire with terrorism but to provoke the Empire to an over reaction (war), and they succeeded.

[Politics_Observer]

@Sandzak

The most successfull terorrist organisation was the Serbian Black Hand / Crna Ruka, they caused WW1. I read some of their writings they wanted not to defeat the Austro-Hungarian Empire with terrorism but to provoke the Empire to an over reaction (war), and they succeeded.

Unfortunately, they succeeded beyond their wildest dreams. Gavrilo Princip's bullet killed at least 10 million people globally. That's at least. Not only did they destroy the Austro-Hungarian Empire but they destroyed all of Europe and many parts of Russia. The ends certainly didn't justify the means. Sometimes, you have to be careful for what you wish for because sometimes you will get far more than what you bargained for.

[Potemkin]

@Sandzak



Unfortunately, they succeeded beyond their wildest dreams. Gavrilo Princip's bullet killed at least 10 million people globally. That's at least. Not only did they destroy the Austro-Hungarian Empire but they destroyed all of Europe and many parts of Russia. The ends certainly didn't justify the means.

Meh, it took a while but it worked in the end. If they had known what was to come, they would probably have been quite pleased with themselves.