[noemon]

As to the claims about Bosnia I think I read them at the time. But I didn't really follow the matter closely. For right or for wrong I was generally supportive of the NATO hawks in the former Yugoslavia, up until the issue broke out over Northern Kosovo. I wasn't aware of the details of the judge's ruling. But personally I have long wanted to see a massive reduction in the scope of libel and slander laws if not their out right abolition.

The documentary 'Judgement-Hoax of the Bosnian Death Camps' has been chased out of youtube, google and almost everywhere.

It was 30 minutes total but now only the first 2 parts of 10 minutes each remain. I have the full doco saved in some old hard drive but I did not manage to find it.

In any case, these are the 2 parts:

It is very interesting to watch this.

This is the image that fooled the world:



Within 20 minutes of ITV publishing this image, George Bush had declared war on Yugoslavia.

Penny Marshall received a Pulitzer for this.

The documentary proves beyond any doubt that:

1) The refugees in the refugee centre are sitting outside the barbed wire and the British journalists on the inside of the wire. That is the "inmates" in the supposed 'Muslim detention centre' are free, while the journalists have used a hole in the chicken wire to go into this transformer and film from inside the chicken wire.
2) There are no guards to be seen, preventing the refugees from leaving!
3) This is a refugee centre for all, not a "Serb detention centre for Muslims", there are Serbs, Croats and others in the refugee camp.
4) The emaciated person in the image is directly asked by Penny Marshall, why are you so thin? He replies, "I have a condition".
-Do they feed you well?
-Yes they do.

Upon return to the UK, ITN made its own documentary about this, put this image right next to a Warsaw Ghetto image, claimed that this person was being brutalised and that this was a concentration camp, when it was an open refugee centre and within 20 minutes the US had found its WMD's and had declared war on Yugoslavia!

[Beren]

Anyway this whole thing looks like psyops to allow Charlie Windsor to play the good guy with his Greek tie, after him and Kate being named as the racists in skingate.

As a matter of fact Charlie Windsor appears to be a good guy from a nasty family, the most benevolent Windsor alive perhaps. It must have been hard for him to find his place among his mother, wife, and lover, then he also had to deal with his daughter-in-laws, especially the one from America his pretty nasty and most likely oversensitive son happened to marry. At least he doesn't have a daughter fortunately, she could be the nastiest of all.

[ThirdTerm]

I'm not familiar with Sunak but I remember that David Cameron once said he was against returnism and he refused to apologize for colonial crimes committed by the British Empire, when he was pressed to do so in India. If Sunak suddenly starts apologizing for the Bengal famine because he has family ties to India or emptying the British Museum, he would be accused of being a traitor to his country. He owes the country much more than any Tory politicians as the first Indian prime minister. His parents came from East Africa in the 1960s.

[Deutschmania]

Within 20 minutes of ITV publishing this image, George Bush had declared war on Yugoslavia.

Penny Marshall received a Pulitzer for this.

The documentary proves beyond any doubt that:

1) The refugees in the refugee centre are sitting outside the barbed wire and the British journalists on the inside of the wire. That is the "inmates" in the supposed 'Muslim detention centre' are free, while the journalists have used a hole in the chicken wire to go into this transformer are f& ilm from inside the chicken wire.
2) There are no guards to be seen, preventing the refugees from leaving!
3) This is a refugee centre for all, not a "Serb detention centre for Muslims", there are Serbs, Croats and others in the refugee camp.
4) The emaciated person in the image is directly asked by Penny Marshall, why are you so thin? He replies, "I have a condition".
-Do they feed you well?
-Yes they do.

Upon return to the UK, ITN made its own documentary about this, put this image right next to a Warsaw Ghetto image, claimed that this person was being brutalised and that this was a concentration camp, when it was an open refugee centre and within 20 minutes the US had found its WMD's and had declared war on Yugoslavia!

Obviously I do not know in detail the history of Greece , and the Balkans , to any great extent. I was only sharing how how it seemed that the British were perceiving things. Not that I concur with such imperious attitudes. I am opposed to any sort of imperialist involvement in foreign affairs. And even though I was rather young , around only 15 years old , I still was opposed to the NATO intervention in the former Yugoslavia . Which is why I happened to remember that the U.S. president at the time was no longer Bush , Sr. , but rather his immediate successor William J. Clinton. So I suppose that we both got schooled , and are now even . P.S. Here is an article , from the right-libertarian Cato Institute , critiquing the Clinton Administration's decision to militarily intervene in the region . https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/pa345.pdf
Also , from around that time period , I remember that Sixpence None the Richer released a song concerning the before mentioned armed conflict in the area .

[noemon]

Which is why I happened to remember that the U.S. president at the time was no longer Bush , Sr. , but rather his immediate successor William J. Clinton. So I suppose that we both got schooled , and are now even .

We are still in August 1992. Still with Bush; Clinton ordered the later bombings of Bosnia(1994), Belgrade(1999) and Kossovo(1999) that you remember. Clinton was elected in 1992 but a few months later.

In August 1992, millions of people were shocked to see photographs of a supposed Bosnian Serb death camp. The camps were in fact refugee centers.

The photos were produced by ITN, the British TV news giant, from footage shot by an ITN film crew which spent a long day in Bosnia. The film was shot in a refugee center in the town of Trnopolje. (Pronounced Tern-op-ol-yay)

Most of the photographs featured a tall, emaciated man with a deformed chest, stripped to the waist, apparently imprisoned behind barbed wire. Do you remember those pictures?

They were a hoax.

To start with, the barbed wire was staged. As you will see, the ITN film crew went inside a storage area surrounded by a chicken wire and barbed wire fence. They filmed through the fence, thus creating the false impression that the people they were filming were fenced in.

That was only their first cute trick. Step by step, Judgment! shows how these phony pictures were created. Judgment! is so damning that ITN’s lawyers have threatened the Internet company that hosts the Emperor’s Clothes server with a law suit because we advertise the film on our website, http://www.tenc.net!

The fabricated photos were broadcast worldwide starting on August 6th, accompanied by captions and comments comparing Trnopolje to Nazi death camps.

OUTRAGED BUSH
On 6 August 1992, just 20 minutes after the pictures were released, George Bush, Sr. held a press conference at a Colorado Air Base:

Reports say that 20 minutes after the ITN footage was shown in the United States, President George Bush changed his hands-off policy and promised to ‘press hard for quick passage’ of a UN Security Council resolution authorising the use of force in the Balkans.”

“Holocaust images of Bosnia prison camps make the West sit up,” The Straits Times, by Lee Siew Hua, August 16, 1992, Pg. 4, 907 words.

President Bush, Sr. demanded that the Serbs – the Bosnian Serbs and the Republic of Serbia as well – be harshly punished, including:

tighten[ing] economic sanctions on Serbia so that all understand that there is a real price to be paid for the Serbian government’s continued aggression.”
“Statement by President Bush, Peterson Air Force Base, Colorado,” Federal News Service, August 6, 1992)
Bush, Sr. also announced that now the U.S. would recognize Croatia, Slovenia and Bosnia as independent from Yugoslavia.
Thus he used the phony death camp photos to endorse the break-up of Yugoslavia. By recognizing the Bosnian government, run by the Islamic fundamentalist, Alijah Izetbegovic, he guaranteed that the Bosnian war would continue.

SUPERBUSH
Consider the speed with which President Bush moved Aug. 6, 1992.

START!
ITN’s phony death camp photos are shown on TV.
Bush sees the pictures. He contacts his cabinet members. Amazingly, they have all seen the photos. They confer. In seconds they decide that the pictures are genuine and that Action Is Needed. (2.5 minutes)
Fast Dial! They call leaders in Germany, England and possibly other countries. (1.5 minutes)
Quick Talk! They plan draconian measures including economic sanctions that will cut off Serbia from the world, depriving industry and ordinary people of necessities such as medicine. (1.5 minutes)
Roll call! They contact congressional leaders, who agree that Bush should recognize the secessionist Republics of Croatia, Bosnia and Slovenia as independent states, thus approving the destruction of the internationally recognized State of Yugoslavia. (1.5 minutes)
Seven minutes down, 13 minutes to go.

Next, Bush and company:

Discuss options and decide to call a press conference at a Colorado Air Base. (Time spent 1.5 minutes)
Write a press release. (Time spent: 1.5 minutes)
Compose Bush’s speech. (Time spent: 2 minutes)
Bush learns the speech. (Time spent: 1.5 minutes)
The White House sends the release to newspapers, wire services and TV stations (2 minutes).
Film crews fly to the Air base (3.5 minutes) and set up their equipment (10 seconds).
FINISH!
Nineteen minutes 10 seconds – on time with 50 seconds to spare.

Bush and co. have planned and organized the decimation of the Serbian people in less time than it takes to cook spaghetti with marinara sauce.

REALITY CHECK
Since what is described above could not have happened, what did happen?

One thing is definite: Mr. Bush’s press conference was planned in advance to follow soon after the TV broadcast of the phony death camp pictures. The idea was to give ordinary people the idea that Bush had reacted *as they would react* to images of great suffering – by demanding action.

But what about the ITN film crew? Did they really go to Bosnia, as the Straits Times stated, in order to “investigate claims that concentration camps had been set up”?

There are two obvious possibilities.

One possibility is that the trip was planned with the black ops people at CIA and/or M16, the British equivalent. That is, ITN went to Bosnia looking for film footage that could be doctored to be used as ammunition in the media war against the Serbs.

Or perhaps no intelligence agency was involved in planning the visit by this leading British news station to the hottest trouble spot in the world. Even so, it must be true that after the ITN people left Bosnia, ITN worked with US and or British intelligence officers. How else could they time the release of the pictures to coincide with Mr. Bush’s press conference?

MISTAKE
ITN had a prior history of aggressively anti-Serbian coverage of the break-up of Yugoslavia. So one might ask, why did the Bosnian Serb leadership give ITN access to Trnopolje and also to the detention center at Omarska? Especially since the Western media was already spreading lies about these places? (For example, see Newsday, 21 July 1992.)

Perhaps they hoped that if the ITN reporters could see for themselves, they would be fair. Apparently, the Serbs did not yet understand that the attacks on them were not a mistake. They were the target of an organized campaign of demonization.

If Sunak suddenly starts apologizing for the Bengal famine because he has family ties to India or emptying the British Museum, he would be accused of being a traitor to his country. He owes the country much more than any Tory politicians as the first Indian prime minister. His parents came from East Africa in the 1960s.

Meeting with the PM of Greece according to their programmed schedule would be equal to capitulating to him as "a traitor" now?

He said as much the next day and accused Keir Starmer of as much, but can any rational person take such a thing seriously?

[noemon]

Rishi Sunak’s ‘Superman’ persona
British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak gives a thumbs-up at the UN Climate Change Conference COP28, in Dubai, the United Arab Emirates, on Friday. [Martin Divisek/EPA]
Kevin Featherstone
04.12.2023 • 21:16

With many British voters seeing Rishi Sunak as a weak personality, he is determined to present them with a new persona. Last week, we saw the fallout.

He is not the diminutive “man-child,” fresh from wearing his school uniform, who looks for orders from his superiors. It is not true that he only eats marmalade sandwiches like Paddington Bear. He is not the third-choice PM who was only given the job because his two predecessors were, in turn, a congenital liar and an economic idiot. Boris Johnson is dismissed as a disgrace to the office of PM, but Rishi cannot bear how people only pity or patronize him. Boris was an all-too-colorful figure that filled a room; Rishi’s profile by contrast is like some wet cardboard on the floor.

When Rishi looked in the bathroom mirror last Monday, he decided this was the day when he would reveal his inner “Superman” persona to the British public. He had been Mr Nice Guy and everyone had ignored him. People saw him as simply being there to delay the arrival of Keir Starmer, the Labour leader, as PM. Today, he would force people to notice him, to talk about what HE had said. The best thing was for him to not speak about how the economy was improving, though, because few would believe him. No, it was better to think of a new issue, something about being “British” and standing up for ourselves after “Brexit.”

When faced with a comic government, the best way to stay sane is to laugh. All other options involve embarrassment and despair

He looked at his diary for the day. Who was this Greek guy there in his schedule? Confusion turned to irritation when an aide reminded him he was the foreigner who appeared on British TV over a year ago and viewers wrote in afterwards to demand he become our PM. Irritation turned to anger when Sunak was told the foreigner was meeting Keir Starmer and he was doing so first. “Does no one respect me?” he wept. But then a weasel-like aide changed Rishi’s spirits. The Greek PM had been on our TV again decrying how Britain insisted on keeping marbles it had perfectly reasonably looted from the Parthenon 200 years ago. And Starmer had already signaled he kind of agreed with this foreigner. So, this was “little” Rishi’s opportunity to play “big”: He’d cancel his meeting with this Greek guy and tell him what was ours would stay ours! Rishi would be on the front pages, and people would take him seriously for a change. Save Our British Marbles!

Oh dear… In writing about politics for over 40 years, I’ve learnt to develop a psychological defense. When faced with a comic government, the best way to stay sane is to laugh. All other options involve embarrassment and despair. Unfortunately, there is a serious undercurrent, however.

We live in an era when politicians across Europe are choosing to fight “culture wars,” often as a distraction from economics. Geert Wilders in the Netherlands is only the most recent example. Immigration is a perfect issue to feed this new politics: protecting our national identity against external incursions. Sunak continues to claim he will “stop the boats,” but migrant numbers continue to rise ever higher. So, he looks for other issues to enable him to defend Britain and its history. The issue of the Parthenon Marbles entered the equation, even though its news value at home might only last a couple of days.

It is, indeed, a sign of Sunak’s desperation that he chose the issue of the sculptures. When the news broke of the meeting being canceled, I was on stage at the LSE “in conversation” with George Gerapetritis(Deputy PM of Greece). I was incredulous at Sunak’s choice. For the vast majority of Brits, the issue of the marbles is one they know little about and don’t really care about. It doesn’t impinge on their everyday lives. True, opinion polls now show clear majorities agreeing the marbles should be returned, but these are attitudes that lack intensity. Nor is it an issue that animates more than a few MPs in his party.

The political fallout from canceling Mitsotakis this week was not what Sunak would’ve hoped for. Number 10 had to hint that Mitsotakis had broken a promise not to speak about the marbles. When it senses it’s losing the media battle, the tactic of choice is now to lie. Why not?

The reality is that Sunak’s actions last week might actually improve the prospects for a bilateral deal on the marbles. Senior Conservatives outside the government have criticized his behavior, distancing themselves from his puerile gesture. And, in the public psyche, an unpopular PM has made the wrong choice. George Osbourne, chair of the British Museum, continues to think a deal is possible. The tide is against Rishi’s little sandcastle.

Kevin Featherstone is director of the Hellenic Observatory at the London School of Economics.

[noemon]

[ingliz]

[noemon]

Woke people calling those who disagree with their conspiracy theories as "foreign cunts"




Wtf does Tufton st, have to do with anything?

Did Tufton street force Monbiot to use witch-hunting & conspiracy theory to chase a lady away from a panel without having dialogue?

[ingliz]

@noemon

Why must you have a dialogue with stupid? And it's hard to argue what little she said in your clip was not stupid: Taxes have to be paid unless you want to live in a shithole.

Now you'll say, why post here then?

And I admit some users are not the sharpest tools in the box.

But I do it for shits and giggles - fun. The BBC is supposed to inform and educate; entertainment is secondary. Reith carefully placed those words in that order.

[noemon]

If you don't want to argue, you don't argue! SIMPLES.

You don't witch-hunt the person you have agreed to argue before going to the panel with conspiracy theories and innuendo. Is that the cross you have decided to die on?

Your right to innuendo with impunity?